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List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

Will the Crows pick up any of these players in the off-season?

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Yeah I'm curious to see what the deal with Jake is. Was sure that he would be among this latest batch of re-signings, but he's still left without a contract

Twomey did mention in an article he was on the verge of re-signing, so I suspect he still does (which I'm kinda ehh on), but you can't help but think what the hold-up is
 
Scorpus said:
There was no way the AFL was ever giving us pick 2 compensation for Brad Crouch.

They literally don't care about rules which is why they write regulations with wiggle room for interpretation.

Giving us pick 2 for Crouch would have been a bad look for the game so it was never on the cards. Maybe if we had finished 10th and had pick 8 but that wasn't the case.
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?..like that has any bearing on it. Did they care that not suspending Cotchin in the prelim in 2017 was a bad look for the game for his snipe on Shiel? What about Collingwood having a report sitting there and an ex player stating the club is systemically racist and the AFL doing nothing about it? How about Melbourne tanking and the AFL squib it, hit them with no penalties other than a fine and then wack us as Bailey was our assistant at the time - what sort of a look for the game was that. How about us getting hit for a covid breach then only shortly after the Bulldogs players being filmed training together and crickets from the AFL - was that a good look

No, make no mistake it is only a bad look for the game if the big Vic clubs are not benefiting
 
Crow till I die said:
?..like that has any bearing on it. Did they care that not suspending Cotchin in the prelim in 2017 was a bad look for the game for his snipe on Shiel? What about Collingwood having a report sitting there and an ex player stating the club is systemically racist and the AFL doing nothing about it? How about Melbourne tanking and the AFL squib it, hit them with no penalties other than a fine and then wack us as Bailey was our assistant at the time - what sort of a look for the game was that. How about us getting hit for a covid breach then only shortly after the Bulldogs players being filmed training together and crickets from the AFL - was that a good look

No, make no mistake it is only a bad look for the game if the big Vic clubs are not benefiting
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Punishing Melbourne clubs is a bad look for the game
 
relapse said:
My gut feel is still that we worked with St Kilda to nut out a deal that we thought was going to get over the line for Band 1, but in typical fashion we got it wrong and it back fired.
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I imagine we had an idea round taking Dunstan's contract but the league vetoed it as was widely reported, which seems like a massive overreach on their behalf.
 

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DJ75 said:
After the Strachan and Gollant signing (and I assume Panell on to rookie list?), where does this leave our list?

How many list spots are available?
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It's in the OP.
 
Also - has there been an update on list sizes (i.e. senior list going back to 38 players)? We can probably afford to only get rid of 3 or 4 guys from the senior list if they're going back to normal, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if it isn't changing in the current climate?
 
Scorpus said:
There was no way the AFL was ever giving us pick 2 compensation for Brad Crouch.

They literally don't care about rules which is why they write regulations with wiggle room for interpretation.

Giving us pick 2 for Crouch would have been a bad look for the game so it was never on the cards. Maybe if we had finished 10th and had pick 8 but that wasn't the case.
Click to expand...

I know we all like to think that the AFL holds us down, but surely if it fits within the criteria the AFL would have no other option other than to offer Band 1 compensation.

From memory to get band 1 the contract has to sit within the top 5% of the AFL so if St Kilda offered the same deal for Crouch that Brisbane did for Daniher, there's no way the AFL wouldn't have offered us the same level of compensation as they did to Essendon.

Wasn't it discussed at the time that the Crows factored in Crouch's contract against the 2020 COVID reduced salary scale and that's where we were caught out?
 
Danger in Texas said:
Also - has there been an update on list sizes (i.e. senior list going back to 38 players)? We can probably afford to only get rid of 3 or 4 guys from the senior list if they're going back to normal, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if it isn't changing in the current climate?
Click to expand...

Pretty sure they announced about a month ago that they are staying the same. Only change is they are stopping the rookie list loophole that we used with Davis and David.
 
Danger in Texas said:
Also - has there been an update on list sizes (i.e. senior list going back to 38 players)? We can probably afford to only get rid of 3 or 4 guys from the senior list if they're going back to normal, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if it isn't changing in the current climate?
Click to expand...

List sizes are the same as last year, the only difference is players can now spend 4 years on the rookie list instead of 3.
 
jackster83 said:
Pretty sure they announced about a month ago that they are staying the same. Only change is they are stopping the rookie list loophole that we used with Davis and David.
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relapse said:
List sizes are the same as last year, the only difference is players can now spend 4 years on the rookie list instead of 3.
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Cheers, must have missed that announcement

I wonder whether we decide to elevate Strachan/Butts or not, in that case
 
relapse said:
I know we all like to think that the AFL holds us down, but surely if it fits within the criteria the AFL would have no other option other than to offer Band 1 compensation.

From memory to get band 1 the contract has to sit within the top 5% of the AFL so if St Kilda offered the same deal for Crouch that Brisbane did for Daniher, there's no way the AFL wouldn't have offered us the same level of compensation as they did to Essendon.

Wasn't it discussed at the time that the Crows factored in Crouch's contract against the 2020 COVID reduced salary scale and that's where we were caught out?
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The compensation formula isn't officially public though. If the Saints did offer him a massive deal (which it seems they didn't, but let's say they did), the AFL could just say "it just missed out on band 1 compensation"
 
Mego Red said:
I imagine we had an idea round taking Dunstan's contract but the league vetoed it as was widely reported, which seems like a massive overreach on their behalf.
Click to expand...
If it's legal within the rules, how can the AFal veto it, just because they don't like it?

They didn't like that Sydney got to Buddy before GWS, but there was nothing they could do to stop it.
 

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Scorpus said:
The compensation formula isn't officially public though. If the Saints did offer him a massive deal (which it seems they didn't, but let's say they did), the AFL could just say "it just missed out on band 1 compensation"
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They couldn't veto it if they gave Essendon Band 1 compensation for Danniher.

Going by previous history, it seems as though somewhere between 750-800k per year seems to be the kicker for Band 1.

Take Tom Rockliff for instance, his deal with Port was 2.8 million over 4 years (which was the same as Brad Crouch) and the AFL only gave Brisbane Band 2 compensation back in 2017.

700k was never going to cut the mustard for Band 1 unfortunately.
 
relapse said:
They couldn't veto it if they gave Essendon Band 1 compensation for Danniher.

Going by previous history, it seems as though somewhere between 750-800k per year seems to be the kicker for Band 1.

Take Tom Rockliff for instance, his deal with Port was 2.8 million over 4 years (which was the same as Brad Crouch) and the AFL only gave Brisbane Band 2 compensation back in 2017.

700k was never going to cut the mustard for Band 1 unfortunately.
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They can veto it if player salaries and the compensation formula aren't public. The club could argue behind closed doors, sure, but as the key components to compensation are private it allows the AFL freedom to manipulate it to their liking.

With that said, based on public leaked information I agree with your calculations that the salary would have to have been $750k+ (likely $800k to be in AFL-indisputable territory) and I remember posting about it at the time. Based on the salary alone it wasn't going to get band 1.

I could have only seen the AFL giving us pick 2 if the salary to Crouch was outrageously high
 
Scorpus said:
They can veto it if player salaries and the compensation formula aren't public. The club could argue behind closed doors, sure, but as the key components to compensation are private it allows the AFL freedom to manipulate it to their liking.

With that said, based on public leaked information I agree with your calculations that the salary would have to have been $750k+ (likely $800k to be in AFL-indisputable territory) and I remember posting about it at the time. Based on the salary alone it wasn't going to get band 1.

I could have only seen the AFL giving us pick 2 if the salary to Crouch was outrageously high
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I agree there's a bit of wiggle room and suspect that's why Essendon were smart and made sure that they got more than enough to get the compensation that they wanted.

Again I seem to recall either Rowie or someone else within the SA footy media saying that the Crows were banking on salaries being reduced through COVID and it pushing the Crouch deal into Band 1 territory.
 
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So, the current list mathematics is as follows:

OUT
Mackay (rookie - retired)
Talia (no new contract)
Lynch (no new contract)
Stengle (delisted)
Gibbs (retired)

IN
Parnell (rookie)
Murray (rookie)

Uncontracted
Matthew Crouch
Ben Davis (R)
Jake Kelly
Ronin O'Connor
James Borlase (R)
Tariek Newchurch (R)
Patrick Parnell (R)

Adelaide's salary cap position is supposed to be pretty good, so I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of delisting (and paying out) a contracted player - Billy Frampton being the most likely candidate.
 
Vader said:
So, the current list mathematics is as follows:

OUT
Mackay (rookie - retired)
Talia (no new contract)
Lynch (no new contract)
Stengle (delisted)
Gibbs (retired)

IN
Parnell (rookie)
Murray (rookie)

Uncontracted
Matthew Crouch
Ben Davis (R)
Jake Kelly
Ronin O'Connor
James Borlase (R)
Tariek Newchurch (R)
Patrick Parnell (R)

Adelaide's salary cap position is supposed to be pretty good, so I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of delisting (and paying out) a contracted player - Billy Frampton being the most likely candidate.
Click to expand...
For the uneducated, how does that translate to available list spots assuming the unsigned remain unsigned?
 

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relapse said:
I agree there's a bit of wiggle room and suspect that's why Essendon were smart and made sure that they got more than enough to get the compensation that they wanted.

Again I seem to recall either Rowie or someone else within the SA footy media saying that the Crows were banking on salaries being reduced through COVID and it pushing the Crouch deal into Band 1 territory.
Click to expand...
To your second point, that was just a Bigfooty invention. I never saw it anywhere else.
 
Vader said:
So, the current list mathematics is as follows:

OUT
Mackay (rookie - retired)
Talia (no new contract)
Lynch (no new contract)
Stengle (delisted)
Gibbs (retired)

IN
Parnell (rookie)
Murray (rookie)

Uncontracted
Matthew Crouch
Ben Davis (R)
Jake Kelly
Ronin O'Connor
James Borlase (R)
Tariek Newchurch (R)
Patrick Parnell (R)

Adelaide's salary cap position is supposed to be pretty good, so I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of delisting (and paying out) a contracted player - Billy Frampton being the most likely candidate.
Click to expand...
Not that it matters much, but Gibbs was rookie list as well, and there's no scenario where Frampton is paid out and delisted. He played our last game.
 
1970crow said:
why would Saints work with us when they knew we were never matching an offer for fear of being stuck with him.
Click to expand...

Well there clearly were discussions between both clubs because there were rumours about a side deal where we'd take Jimmy Webster and Luke Dunstan, which the AFL apparently put the kibosh on.

My suspicion has always been that we thought 700k x 4 years was going to be enough, so I wouldn't be surprised if we had informally agreed with St Kilda that if the offer was above 700k that we would let it go through without matching.

All the threats to match once St Kilda lodged the deal were more than likely done for optics to try and save face.
 
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Kane McGoodwin said:
If it's legal within the rules, how can the AFal veto it, just because they don't like it?

They didn't like that Sydney got to Buddy before GWS, but there was nothing they could do to stop it.
Click to expand...
Wasn't there that time we were going to do a deal with GWS with those pre-list picks when we lost Phil Davis and the AFL quashed it along the lines of it wasn't in the spirit of what was intended.

Then there was another time when we were going to try to get Viney when his old man was still with us, that one was a bit more of a reach, but its just funny how things never land in our favour.

Then there's those funny umpiring anomalies we often recieve apologies for that I don't see many other clubs getting.

Then there's the NGA allocations.

Then there's our Tippett sanctions versus say Collingwoods from their breach last year, or that time Geelong self reported their breach.

Yeah, nah, AFL would never bend a rule to disadvantage us or favour others.
 
Carmo said:
Wasn't there that time we were going to do a deal with GWS with those pre-list picks when we lost Phil Davis and the AFL quashed it along the lines of it wasn't in the spirit of what was intended.

Then there was another time when we were going to try to get Viney when his old man was still with us, that one was a bit more of a reach, but its just funny how things never land in our favour.

Then there's those funny umpiring anomalies we often recieve apologies for that I don't see many other clubs getting.

Then there's the NGA allocations.

Then there's our Tippett sanctions versus say Collingwoods from their breach last year, or that time Geelong self reported their breach.

Yeah, nah, AFL would never bend a rule to disadvantage us or favour others.
Click to expand...
They wouldn't deliberately disadvantage us.

We do that well enough ourselves
 

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List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

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