News Adelaide Crows Camp Allegations and Rumors

[Crow till I die]

and in other news, Sam McClure and Safework SA to investigate Nigel smart fire walking incident and Graham Cornes swearing at players in the 1992 preseason

Why is this Fcuking camp still news - it was 3 years ago and the supporters want the club to move on - most of the main players from then have been

 

[Thetrader15]

I just saw the ad below come up on my screen...at first I thought it was Rucci, but then realised I missed the word "love"

 

[Geoffa32]

Who thought that? I posted that they would almost certainly have jurisdiction.

Our Premier said on AA they have no jurisdiction.

Like you, I think he was wrong.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Cap]

Our Premier said on AA they have no jurisdiction.

Like you, I think he was wrong.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

The article stated that SA work 'may' have jurisdiction.

So I'm not even sure the speculators are sure

 

[Pugsley]

McGovern did not go to the worst parts of the camp and it’s not the reason he left, ignore whatever sh*t his manager sprouted. Betts and Sauce wouldn’t be a surprise though.

They did a exercise in front of the whole group where Sauce had to jump over a 5 cent piece and he couldn't. He is still scarred now.

 

[1970crow]

Didn't both want two year contracts from us and a guarantee to play in the firsts?

I don't think any footballer would ask for or expect such a guarantee. But they would want some assurance that they're considered first choice going into the off-season and maybe even an assurance that they'll get first crack next year. Bit I doubt even our most entitled would expect a season long guarantee. Story on Sauce was that his 1 year deal with us was at a pretty good rate compared to his 2 year deal but he chose the prospect of being first ruck. In reality, he's probably pretty happy. Getting more over 2 years and not playing in meaningless scratch matches, would be his second best outcome. Not sure how his continuity levels are going though. He does thrive on them.

 

[1970crow]

and in other news, Sam McClure and Safework SA to investigate Nigel smart fire walking incident and Graham Cornes swearing at players in the 1992 preseason

Why is this Fcuking camp still news - it was 3 years ago and the supporters want the club to move on - most of the main players from then have been

It remains news because the club failed to address it when they had the opportunity. Instead of owning the error and moving on, they silenced and ignored the players that were unhappy and rolled out anyone who would spruik the club line. They created an infestation that hasn't been resolved. They're getting exactly what they deserve.

 

[BACCS]

Gutless, it’s not just some random with no followers asking either. They must’ve seen the Tweet too as the headline changed not long after.

 

[jenny61_99]

I don't think any footballer would ask for or expect such a guarantee. But they would want some assurance that they're considered first choice going into the off-season and maybe even an assurance that they'll get first crack next year. Bit I doubt even our most entitled would expect a season long guarantee. Story on Sauce was that his 1 year deal with us was at a pretty good rate compared to his 2 year deal but he chose the prospect of being first ruck. In reality, he's probably pretty happy. Getting more over 2 years and not playing in meaningless scratch matches, would be his second best outcome. Not sure how his continuity levels are going though. He does thrive on them.

Yes, I probably chose the wrong words to use in that. They wanted to be considered as walking start up players rather than reserve players helping to develop the kids in the twos and the prospect of playing in the firsts if required. They both thought they had more to offer. What I guess I was saying though, is they were prepared to stay here if the conditions were favourable, which is kind of at odds with the "disgruntled employee" situation that many are suggesting?

 

[1970crow]

The article stated that SA work 'may' have jurisdiction.

So I'm not even sure the speculators are sure

The duty to a worker does not transfer to another employer just because the worker has crossed a state border. It's no more complicated than that.

 

[DJ75]

SafeWork SA is poised to probe the notorious pre-season camp that caused fractures within the Adelaide Crows
South Australia’s workplace regulator is poised to investigate the Adelaide Crows’ notorious 2018 Gold Coast pre-season camp.
Paul Starick, Chief Reporter, The Advertiser

July 21, 2020 4:22pm
Workplace regulator SafeWork SA is poised to launch an investigation into the Adelaide Football Club’s infamous 2018 pre-season training camp, raising the potential for prosecutions, a fine and safety order.

An official investigation would focus on “safe systems of work” at the Gold Coast camp, about which Premier Steven Marshall expressed “genuine concerns” following reports of players being put through traumatic activities aimed at building resilience.
The SA workplace health and safety regulator’s role does not extend to Queensland but its jurisdiction may extend to work activities conducted there by the Adelaide-based AFL club.
Responding to reports about Crows players at the camp being told to hurl abuse at a teammate about a childhood trauma, Mr Marshall on July 6 said “everybody who goes to any work environment should be safe from bullying or intimidation” and vowed to check whether the Crows were subject to SafeWork SA legislation.
The camp is widely believed to have played a key role in triggering the club’s collapse from 2017 grand finalists to their current dire position – winless on the foot of the AFL ladder.

Adelaide Crows players walk from the ground during the round 7 match against St Kilda at Adelaide Oval on Monday night. Picture: Daniel Kalisz/Getty Images
Asked on Tuesday about the status of any inquiry by SafeWork SA into the Crows, a spokeswoman for the regulator responded with a written statement.
“No notifications or complaints against the Adelaide Football Club in relation to their pre-season camp in 2018 have been received by SafeWork SA. SafeWork SA is looking into the matter and no further information can be shared at this stage,” the statement says.
“SafeWork SA does not have jurisdiction over Queensland businesses, however, where South Australian businesses operate interstate, we may have jurisdiction over activities relating to safe systems of work.”
According to SafeWork SA’s website, the regulator’s compliance and enforcement activities, in general, may lead to prosecutions being filed in the SA Employment Tribunal and the Magistrates Court, or an enforceable undertaking or expiation notice being issued.

News Corp last week revealed serious doubts had been raised over the independence of the AFL probe into the camp, which cleared the club of wrongdoing, despite revelations of disturbing mental, physical and cultural abuse.
It was revealed seven of the nine Crows’ directors were appointed by the AFL and that the league had sole voting rights of all matters at annual general meetings other than the election of the two remaining board members.
Former Crows coach Don Pyke has said Crows chiefs need to address the notorious four-day camp “once and for all”, arguing the club needed to explain the “context” around some of the activities.
“It’s probably disappointing it’s continuing to be … discussed. I mean clearly, the club’s viewpoint is that they want to move on,” Mr Pyke told ABC radio, following the fresh News Corp investigation into the saga.
“I think it’s probably a conversation that’s due with the club about, well, how they want to address this once and for all.”
Top Adelaide lawyer Greg Griffin has said the AFL made a “serious error” in claiming its investigation into the Crows’ camp was independent, saying it controlled the board and, therefore, the club.

Flying as one? Crows players during the match against St Kilda on Monday night. Picture: Daniel Kalisz/Getty Images
Under the terms of the Crows’ constitution – revised six years ago – the AFL took effective control of the Adelaide board and became the club’s ultimate authority.
The AFL integrity unit in 2018 cleared the Crows of any wrongdoing in the “cult-like” team-building camp and concluded that there had been “no breach of industry rules”.

I have no doubt that a few muck rakers have been making call after call to SafeWork SA asking them if they will be investigating. there will be a few (McLure, Rooch etc...) very very happy if it happens so they can keep on pushing the story for a few more years.

My biggest issue is this - how the hell is Roo still on the board and still involved in football decisions. This happened under his watch, with people he employed. It comes back to him and is on his head.

If Chapman was any sort of Chairman, Roo would have fallen on his sword along with his mate Burton.

 

[Pugsley]

Gutless, it’s not just some random with no followers asking either. They must’ve seen the Tweet too as the headline changed not long after.

Its good to see Fitzy pull up morons.

 

[Crow till I die]

It remains news because the club failed to address it when they had the opportunity. Instead of owning the error and moving on, they silenced and ignored the players that were unhappy and rolled out anyone who would spruik the club line. They created an infestation that hasn't been resolved. They're getting exactly what they deserve.

But seriously, how many times are the media going to flog a dead horse. It is done and was done close to 3 years ago..The media brig up this camp issue more often than the essendon drug saga these days

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Lots of huff and puff. Can anyone pinpoint the exact actions which would breach workplace health and safety rules, bearing in mind this is an elite professional sporting club. I'm pretty sure if I jumped on my secretaries back to try to grab a box of tissues from the top cupboard, or made the juniors run laps til the point they spew before they could go home it would be frowned upon.

 

[Mego Red]

You would think the findings of worksafe SA might be a tipping point one way or the other in determining if the club ends up having to pay out players who attended the camp.

This is very dangerous territory for the Crows. If Worksafe SA determine the club was negligent in meeting their duty of care, or contributed to psychological distress.they are a sitting duck in a legal sense.

If it heads down that track, you can bet the club will quickly find a way to settle to avoid lengthy legal proceedings. Payouts for psychological distress could be in the millions.

Players won't start legal proceedings until their careers are over, however it should be a given that the club will face legal action. Betts, Jacobs, McGovern are most likely.

Money talks, and you would think once they get smacked with a fine, and lawsuits the club will finally wake up to toxic culture that has existed there and take the action required to rebuild the club from the inside out.

What's an example of a payout in the millions for psychological distress?

 

[SugarShane]

The duty to a worker does not transfer to another employer just because the worker has crossed a state border. It's no more complicated than that.

Yeah this. Not sure how that jurisdiction stuff ever became a thing. If I go on a work trip to Melbourne and get injured my employer still has to deal with SafeWork SA. They're not American cops.

 

[1970crow]

But seriously, how many times are the media going to flog a dead horse. It is done and was done close to 3 years ago..The media brig up this camp issue more often than the essendon drug saga these days

You can argue the penalties or whatever, but ultimately the Essendon drugs saga was closed out. Whatever wasn't shredded formed part of what became an open investigation. The club copped a lettuce leaf whack, the AFL tried to get the players off by fixing their tribunal and a few employees/contractors walked the plank. We hid behind Sloane telling everyone it was the best thing ever for him and the Pyke/Burton press conference. We then belatedly admit some things mightn't have gone right, but it's in the past. Well, it's not in the past for everybody and it's clearly still newsworthy. They could have nipped it in the bud back then, but they chose a different path. Maybe they can still put it to bed by coming clean, maybe they have legal advice not to, who knows. All that is known is that had we dealt with the unhappy players from the beginning and publicly owned our mistakes, we'd not still be having this dredged up 3 years down the track. It's 100% on our incompetent club leadership.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

In an investigation, these very nasty personal things that certain players got upset about being shared will be in open discussion

So yeah bring it on, sure.

 

[Interloperer]

But seriously, how many times are the media going to flog a dead horse. It is done and was done close to 3 years ago..The media brig up this camp issue more often than the essendon drug saga these days

When you're credibly accused of something you don't just get to declare "there's no story here" and then get annoyed when people don't accept that.

 

[Crow till I die]

When you're credibly accused of something you don't just get to declare "there's no story here" and then get annoyed when people don't accept that.

But this has literally been done to death for the last 3 years..it is not like it is the first time it has ever been brought up. I could not give a stuff anymore as since then we have had a new coach, new assistant coaches, moved on a number of players from that time. I don't think for one moment the media have a non partisan objective of pure reporting here..the Vic media has bashed and bashed us and 3 years later it seems like they cant stop flogging that dead horse..move on for gods sake

 

[1970crow]

Lots of huff and puff. Can anyone pinpoint the exact actions which would breach workplace health and safety rules, bearing in mind this is an elite professional sporting club. I'm pretty sure if I jumped on my secretaries back to try to grab a box of tissues from the top cupboard, or made the juniors run laps til the point they spew before they could go home it would be frowned upon.

17—Management of risks (1) A duty imposed on a person to ensure health and safety requires the person— (a) to eliminate risks to health and safety, so far as is reasonably practicable; and (b) if it is not reasonably practicable to eliminate risks to health and safety, to minimise those risks so far as is reasonably practicable.

If someone suffers ongoing mental distress, then there would be an argument that they could have breached this duty. They may have had procedures in place to minimise or eliminate this risk, ie psychological testing prior to the camp, a trained psychologist at the camp, safe words etc etc. That is how you go about embarking on the exercise whilst still adhering to your responsibility under the law. If you've engaged psuedo psychologists with almost no due dilligence and just let them loose on your employees, then you've failed your duty to minimise the risk to those employees.

Workplace laws aren't always prescriptive. There's no workplace safety law that says that you can't tie someone to a tree and hurl abuse at them while they try and retrieve a knife to cut themselves free. So if your total understanding of workplace safety laws requires that you be pointed to to that law then you can rest assured. Just lots of huff and puff.

 

[Interloperer]

But this has literally been done to death for the last 3 years..it is not like it is the first time it has ever been brought up. I could not give a stuff anymore as since then we have had a new coach, new assistant coaches, moved on a number of players from that time. I don't think for one moment the media have a non partisan objective of pure reporting here..the Vic media has bashed and bashed us and 3 years later it seems like they cant stop flogging that dead horse..move on for gods sake

It hasn't been done to death, Nothing has happened beyond the occasional journalist saying "remember that thing that happened, sure would be interesting if there was an explanation." Theres been no consequences, the crows have done literally nothing about it and explained nothing publically.

 

[SaltPeter]

I have no doubt that a few muck rakers have been making call after call to SafeWork SA asking them if they will be investigating. there will be a few (McLure, Rooch etc...) very very happy if it happens so they can keep on pushing the story for a few more years.

My biggest issue is this - how the hell is Roo still on the board and still involved in football decisions. This happened under his watch, with people he employed. It comes back to him and is on his head.

If Chapman was any sort of Chairman, Roo would have fallen on his sword along with his mate Burton.

I agree with what you’re saying, however it’s actually Chapman and/or Fagan who should’ve fallen on their swords.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

17—Management of risks (1) A duty imposed on a person to ensure health and safety requires the person— (a) to eliminate risks to health and safety, so far as is reasonably practicable; and (b) if it is not reasonably practicable to eliminate risks to health and safety, to minimise those risks so far as is reasonably practicable.

If someone suffers ongoing mental distress, then there would be an argument that they could have breached this duty. They may have had procedures in place to minimise or eliminate this risk, ie psychological testing prior to the camp, a trained psychologist at the camp, safe words etc etc. That is how you go about embarking on the exercise whilst still adhering to your responsibility under the law. If you've engaged psuedo psychologists with almost no due dilligence and just let them loose on your employees, then you've failed your duty to minimise the risk to those employees.

Workplace laws aren't always prescriptive. There's no workplace safety law that says that you can't tie someone to a tree and hurl abuse at them while they try and retrieve a knife to cut themselves free. So if your total understanding of workplace safety laws requires that you be pointed to to that law then you can rest assured. Just lots of huff and puff.

That's what I am asking. You need to be more specific than "let them loose" Was it the plastic guns? The heavy metal music? The tied to a tree sounds bad, but really its a camp and preseason. You know sometimes to punish a player, they make them ... get this ... run between their fellow employees and get balls kicked at them. Physically kicked.

At the moment, JJ and Jacobs can cry to the media about how mean and nasty this all was. If it gets to this point, it gets a bit more serious and the allegations will be held to account, and when you truely read into what happened, none of it will hold weight. The only crime is just how lame and embarrassing it all is.

 

[kirky]

Is that your learned opinion from your career in banking?

No, my learned opinion from now being a pro bono gardener.