Recruiting AFL Draft Watch 2022 - Tsatas, Hayes, Davey x2, Munkara & Montgomerie

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central.rookieme.com

 

[Keystone agony]

Of our next 2 first rounders.... one will have to be a key forward. No doubt

We do also have J.Stewart still on the list, no superstar but an ok backup key forward

Ideally hes depth for the next 3 years as a swingman at worse

 

[TheGrizz]

Baldwin has had some continuity but at 193cm have reservations to be a KPF.

Jones has had injury troubles since drafting (0/23, 16/22, 1/12)

McBride is still a LONG shot to even make it let alone as a forward.


Again, even if any become contributors at AFL level, who is our star? who do we build the forward line around?

But that's not what you said. You stated that we had poor forward planning because we had one KPF going forward.

Except we have at least 4 including the names I mentioned, plus a 26yo in Wright. So that isn't at all correct that we have no forward planning and only have 1 KPF going forward.

 

[Yoda_]

But that's not what you said. You stated that we had poor forward planning because we had one KPF going forward.

Except we have at least 4 including the names I mentioned, plus a 26yo in Wright. So that isn't at all correct that we have no forward planning and only have 1 KPF going forward.

We are nit-picking semantics

What I want to happen (as in predicting who we should / could delist) is obviously different to what others think. And that is having one of McBride or Eyre as 'young' key forwards for 2023.

Baldwin despite the physicality Im not viewing as a KPF. Thats ok if others see him different

 

[Zach Package]

You’re almost playing the genetic lottery to an extent with taller midfielders.

Do they retain their coordination, speed, tank and agility when they add 10-15 kilos to their frame? Some do, some don’t, some just don’t really bulk up that much at all.

 

[Yoda_]

You’re almost playing the genetic lottery to an extent with taller midfielders.

Do they retain their coordination, speed, tank and agility when they add 10-15 kilos to their frame? Some do, some don’t, some just don’t really bulk up that much at all.

Probably comes down to who has actually played midfield and who hasn't.

A guy like Cripps was always a beast junior who played predominantly midfield at U18 level whilst the attraction of Petracca iirc, was his ability to do the magical forward of centre with the scope to play midfield. SCOPE to play midfield.


Im not sure 'big' midfielders is actually a thing the more I think about it. Perhaps not the mould most are talking but the ones ant555 is talking. Those 187cm bulls. The 'big' ones sound more like flankers who develop into something special which comes back to our poor development over the years.

 

[Lore]

Baldwin? Jones? McBride?

Voss

 

[Yoda_]

Voss

HaHa

I did see the injury update that said key forward in it in relation to young Patrick

 

[Call Me Cake]

And why do you need a "star" key forward? Melbourne don't. Dogs didn't for when they won their flag. Freo currently don't.

We're basing our entire faith on spreading our goals across our midfield with a midfield that doesn't know how to score. Let that fantasy go already.

I also love how when we lose a lot, people say, "oh, but our forward line is so depleted as it is", yet the moment the importance of quality tall forwards are brought in question, the narrative changes.

Why did Brisbane and Sydney chase Daniher? Why did Richmond chase Lynch? Why is Harry Mckay lauded? Why was King such a huge signing for St Kilda in the eyes of many? Why is the eventual return of King at the Suns viewed as a potential extra barometer for their chances in the near future? Would Geelong have pulled as many games without the efforts of either one of Hawkins or Cameron? Why is Buddy regarded as one of the most pivotal players to ever play the game still to this day?

And even now, when Melbourne, who lured an iffy Brown, are down in form, people are very clear to point to their deficiencies up forward as holes that are exploitable when other areas of the ground are poked by injuries. When the structure that overcompensates in holding them in place suffers a mishap, their already existing deficiency becomes an even greater deficiency.

It's quite alarming to realize how long we've gone from landing that genuine KPF that has alluded us for so long, the fact that we haven't had a breakout, consistent, week to week KPF for 15 years and every time we came close to it, we've been s**t out of luck. I can only imagine the impact one would have if we were to ever get one that fits that description, and at the moment, no one on our list screams that for us, it's only bias that makes us want to believe otherwise. We must plan for the future or else we risk even more hurt down the line.

 

[eth-dog]

We're basing our entire faith on spreading our goals across our midfield with a midfield that doesn't know how to score. Let that fantasy go already.

I also love how when we lose a lot, people say, "oh, but our forward line is so depleted as it is", yet the moment the importance of quality tall forwards are brought in question, the narrative changes.

Why did Brisbane and Sydney chase Daniher? Why did Richmond chase Lynch? Why is Harry Mckay lauded? Why was King such a huge signing for St Kilda in the eyes of many? Why is the eventual return of King at the Suns viewed as a potential extra barometer for their chances in the near future? Would Geelong have pulled as many games without the efforts of either one of Hawkins or Cameron? Why is Buddy regarded as one of the most pivotal players to ever play the game still to this day?

And even now, when Melbourne, who lured an iffy Brown, are down in form, people are very clear to point to their deficiencies up forward as holes that are exploitable when other areas of the ground are poked by injuries. When the structure that overcompensates in holding them in place suffers a mishap, their already existing deficiency becomes an even greater deficiency.

It's quite alarming to realize how long we've gone from landing that genuine KPF that has alluded us for so long, the fact that we haven't had a breakout, consistent, week to week KPF for 15 years and every time we came close to it, we've been s**t out of luck. I can only imagine the impact one would have if we were to ever get one that fits that description, and at the moment, no one on our list screams that for us, it's only bias that makes us want to believe otherwise. We must plan for the future or else we risk even more hurt down the line.

Sure, except I haven't said anything like that.

Having a star forward would be great. I'd rather a functional forward line, period. I've never understood the obsession with must having a star forward to have a functional forward line.

The current best team in the AFL (despite their last couple of losses) have two key forwards on 15 goals so far. McDonald only had 33 goals last year. One of the sides that just beat them doesn't have a single forward averaging 2 goals a game.

We have 19-21 year old key forwards showing signs in both the AFL and VFL. Now's not the time to panic buy a key forward just cos.

 

[Yoda_]

Sure, except I haven't said anything like that.

Having a star forward would be great. I'd rather a functional forward line, period. I've never understood the obsession with must having a star forward to have a functional forward line.

The current best team in the AFL (despite their last couple of losses) have two key forwards on 15 goals so far. McDonald only had 33 goals last year. One of the sides that just beat them doesn't have a single forward averaging 2 goals a game.

We have 19-21 year old key forwards showing signs in both the AFL and VFL. Now's not the time to panic buy a key forward just cos.

Even so, a functional forward is not even remotely close to the periphery right now..

Our small forwards are a work in progress, our medium forwards are injured a bit (Stringer) or still developing (Perkins), this is another area I wouldn't mind adding to over the next two drafts. Voss, is he forward or back?

I don't see a 50 goal a year key forward on our list, even Peter Wright who we are all lauding as 'breaking out' is only on track to kick exactly 50. As I have mentioned numerous times, Im not sold on the kids we have not in the AFL team consistently (this includes Baldwin).

 

[Yoda_]

Hey eth-dog

The "19-21 year old key forwards showing signs in both the AFL and VFL" have kicked

McBride 5.4 (16 games)
Eyre 5.2 (17 games)
Baldwin 12.3 (5 games)


Baldwin can have a case made to be on track to be ok, the other two have been nothing short of below poor vas forwards.


Someone even tried to suggest Bryan had showed some as a forward, he has kicked 2.2 from 16 games and a further 1 goal from his 4 AFL games

 

[eth-dog]

Even so, a functional forward is not even remotely close to the periphery right now..

Our small forwards are a work in progress, our medium forwards are injured a bit (Stringer) or still developing (Perkins), this is another area I wouldn't mind adding to over the next two drafts. Voss, is he forward or back?

I don't see a 50 goal a year key forward on our list, even Peter Wright who we are all lauding as 'breaking out' is only on track to kick exactly 50. As I have mentioned numerous times, Im not sold on the kids we have not in the AFL team consistently (this includes Baldwin).

It's a work in progress, yes. Where did I say it was a finished product? I'm just willing to wait a bit longer and see if they turn out.

Who was Melbourne's 50 goal key forward last year? Who's on track for them or Freo this year, two of the top 3 sides? Who says Jones can't reach that level?

Oh so a key position player who turned 20 about 2 weeks ago, coming off 2 ACL's as a junior, hasn't convinced you? FMD he's averaging 2.4 goals a game in one of the worst VFL sides where we average probably 30 inside 50's a game.

Hey eth-dog

The "19-21 year old key forwards showing signs in both the AFL and VFL" have kicked

McBride 5.4 (16 games)
Eyre 5.2 (17 games)
Baldwin 12.3 (5 games)


Baldwin can have a case made to be on track to be ok, the other two have been nothing short of below poor vas forwards.


Someone even tried to suggest Bryan had showed some as a forward, he has kicked 2.2 from 16 games and a further 1 goal from his 4 AFL games

You forgot to include Harrison Jones, 21 goals in 17 games of AFL football at 21.

McBride had a 3 goal game in his first game forward, got two others last year before COVID happened. Since then he's been moved to a defensive role.

Eyre I'm on the record many times saying that I think should be playing defence as I don't believe he has the hands to be a key forward.

As for Bryan, I think he's played alongside an actual ruck in the VFL once, and in that game Phillips did his Hammy about 10 minutes into the game. However he's shown that he's good on the lead and has a reasonable set shot.

Seriously. Why do we HAVE to have a gun key forward? Jones, if we manage to keep him on the park, looks like one of the best young key forwards in the game. Baldwin has shown promising signs in the VFL and Wright with a relatively good injury history at 25 is hardly at panic stations for us. Maybe drafting a young forward/ruck either this year or next is an idea but it's hardly panic stations

 

[Zach Package]

Probably comes down to who has actually played midfield and who hasn't.

A guy like Cripps was always a beast junior who played predominantly midfield at U18 level whilst the attraction of Petracca iirc, was his ability to do the magical forward of centre with the scope to play midfield. SCOPE to play midfield.


Im not sure 'big' midfielders is actually a thing the more I think about it. Perhaps not the mould most are talking but the ones ant555 is talking. Those 187cm bulls. The 'big' ones sound more like flankers who develop into something special which comes back to our poor development over the years.

Whether they are a midfielder or think they can be developed into one, for me it’s less about height and more about core strength and basically how big your arse is.

There are players out there that have frames conducive to putting 10 kilos onto a skinny frame and it will take them from strength to strength, there are also players that need to do that to compete physically but it will ruin their running capacity and agility.

I recall Melksham putting on a fair whack of size over one pre season and basically not being able to run once he came back.

Someone like Tsatsas for example looks to have a frame that will fill out well, has wide shoulders and hips.

 

[Harlequin Dream]

After reading the Rookie Me scouting notes, I want Sheezel now.

Scouting Notes: 2022 NAB League - Round 9

With representative football fast approaching, a bunch of NAB Leaguers were out to impress in Round 9 of the 2022 season.

central.rookieme.com

"Having played more and more time in the midfield each week, Sheezel had his breakout performance as a rover against the Knights with a game-high 37 disposals. Sheezel shined with his ability to win first possession from stoppages, generally making the best decision when disposing by hand quickly. Sheezel’s kicking was damaging all game, hitting leading teammates well even when in congestion, as he looked to give it off to teammates in central areas. As is usual, Sheezel was an aerial threat through the game taking a couple of intercept marks around the ground, but impressing with his ability to even out contests even when outnumbered, and beating his opponents at ground level with his follow up work."

 

[owen87]

A star KPF is a nice luxury to have, but most of these names haven't won a Premiership.

Daniher

0 Premierships

Lynch

2 Premierships at Richmond - after they were already a Premiership side.

Mckay

0 Premierships

King

0 Premierships

King

0 Premierships

Hawkins

2 Premierships - 34 Goals and 27 Goals in those seasons

Cameron

0 Premierships

Buddy

2 Premierships at Hawthorn as the best KPF in the league
0 Premierships at Sydney as the best KPF in the league

 

['51 Bewick]

Hey eth-dog

The "19-21 year old key forwards showing signs in both the AFL and VFL" have kicked

McBride 5.4 (16 games)
Eyre 5.2 (17 games)
Baldwin 12.3 (5 games)


Baldwin can have a case made to be on track to be ok, the other two have been nothing short of below poor vas forwards.


Someone even tried to suggest Bryan had showed some as a forward, he has kicked 2.2 from 16 games and a further 1 goal from his 4 AFL games

Do you watch our VFL games (I do).
He is almost full-time in the Ruck and almost zero time forward.

 

[TheGrizz]

Looking at where our pick looks to land, being the 3-6 range, it looks like the players available are midfielders (Tsatas, Clark, Ashcroft), Key forwards (Lemmey or Scully) or small forward (Sheezel).

I dont think any of those position groups are strong enough in our squad to pass up a top 5 talent. When you have a pick that high is Best player available, and if that's a key forward, then fine. Most likely though it will be one of the 3 mids at the top of the draft currently (Wardlaw, Ashcroft or Tsatas) with maybe a bolter like Phillipou or Sheezel if they have a big champs

 

[Call Me Cake]

A star KPF is a nice luxury to have, but most of these names haven't won a Premiership.



0 Premierships



2 Premierships at Richmond - after they were already a Premiership side.



0 Premierships



0 Premierships



0 Premierships



2 Premierships - 34 Goals and 27 Goals in those seasons



0 Premierships



2 Premierships at Hawthorn as the best KPF in the league
0 Premierships at Sydney as the best KPF in the league

A lot of those names are no where near their primes or finished, so it is a stretch to judge them on flags.

And you say "oh but Richmond were already a flag team" yet you break so many straws to negate the possibility that Lynch would have helped them in '19/'20 just to suit a narrative. Sheesh.

And even still, statistically, not every team is going to win a flag.

6 of the last 10 flags were won by just 2 teams.

At the end of the day pretty much every team I mentioned are either respectable teams who have remained competitive despite lacking in other areas of the ground, and/or are regarded as up and coming with some of that belief due in part to who they've got leading their forward line.

We've gone so long thinking we can do without, yet we've demonstrated quite clearly that we've been incapable to compensate for it in other areas of the ground or teach that and it's little wonder to see how uncompetitive/limp we've been since.

 

[owen87]

A lot of those names are no where near their primes or finished, so it is a stretch to judge them on flags.

And you say "oh but Richmond were already a flag team" yet you break so many straws to negate the possibility that Lynch would have helped them in '19/'20 just to suit a narrative. Sheesh.

And even still, statistically, not every team is going to win a flag.

6 of the last 10 flags were won by just 2 teams.

At the end of the day pretty much every team I mentioned are either respectable teams who have remained competitive despite lacking in other areas of the ground, and/or are regarded as up and coming with some of that belief due in part to who they've got leading their forward line.

We've gone so long thinking we can do without, yet we've demonstrated quite clearly that we've been incapable to compensate for it in other areas of the ground or teach that and it's little wonder to see how uncompetitive/limp we've been since.

When was the last time the GF winning team had the Coleman medallist playing?

Perhaps a star KPF isn't the one and only solution required.

You're arguing a whole bunch of weird stuff, naming a heap of players who've not won anything, trying to argue around a functional forward-line being the key requirement.

Melbourne just dominated a GF with a medium-tall as their leading goal scorer for the season in Bailey Fritsch.

A star KPF is a nice luxury to have, but isn't a requirement. A reliable KPF can do the majority of what a star can from a functional perspective, which facilitates the rest of the forward-line performing.

 

[Nifft]

I am not totally against another 180-184cm midfield as long as they have the scope to reach 85-88kg.
Parish was very light for a midfielder being 74kg when he was drafted and has put on 8kg.
I think it is reasonable to say that a guy like Hobbs will end up being a short bull given he has the scope to play at 85kg-86kg if he can put on 6kg or 7kg.
If someone like Clarke or Sheezel ends up being the best early pick then even they have the scope to be playing at around 85kg based on the Parish scale.
When you look at all the smaller midfielders it seem most have no real issues with contested footy and inside game if the can play around the 85kg range.
Seems strange that something as small as 3kg can make a difference but it seems to be the case in a lot of the smaller midfielders.
Still think we can use a taller marking type for point of difference but short bulls can get the job done. Do not want to be having to much of a reach inside the top 4 and pass on a gun because of 5 or 6cm. Pick the best player which may be a KPF or another short midfielder.

I was a gym junkie when I was younger, used to go twice a day. I'm 183cm and had a low body fat (back then ), and I couldn't get passed 82kg no matter how much I tried. I was trying to eat more, taking protein etc, but when you're a certain build you can only put on so much weight.

I guess my point is that if someone is lightly framed then they can only build up so much, which is what you've said before. So players that have a bigger frame like Hobbs, no matter what height they are, will find it easier to put on weight and strength. Considering we already have lighter types like Parish, it makes sense that they should now target players that look like they can more easily put on bulk.

 

[Keystone agony]

I think the key forward debate is fairly simple

In 18 months time see where Baldwin or anyone else is at and decide whether the first round pick required needs to be a key forward (Is there one available where we arent stretching). That would be end 2023. 2024 would be there first year

Key forwards cant be expected to do too much until year 3 which would be 2026 (Kings and L.Mcdonalds dont come around that often)

In 2026 P.Wright will be turning 30 if my maths is right

Id think the club is pretty happy with what Wright, H.Jones, Stringer can do in the next 2 years as taller forwards with Baldwin developing in the wings as depth or if Stringer pulls s**t together plays midfield and we decide on a 3 tall forward setup

 

[Yoda_]

Do you watch our VFL games (I do).
He is almost full-time in the Ruck and almost zero time forward.

and my comment was in response to someone who suggested Bryan had forward craft (sounding like a poster was insinuating he could be a forward).

 

[Yoda_]

I think the key forward debate is fairly simple

In 18 months time see where Baldwin or anyone else is at and decide whether the first round pick required needs to be a key forward (Is there one available where we arent stretching). That would be end 2023. 2024 would be there first year

Key forwards cant be expected to do too much until year 3 which would be 2026 (Kings and L.Mcdonalds dont come around that often)

In 2026 P.Wright will be turning 30 if my maths is right

Id think the club is pretty happy with what Wright, H.Jones, Stringer can do in the next 2 years as taller forwards with Baldwin developing in the wings as depth or if Stringer pulls s**t together plays midfield and we decide on a 3 tall forward setup

If we wait till Wright is 30 then we would have dropped the ball with regard to forward planning.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

I'd still be aiming to get a second pick within 10 and trying to nab someone like Scully as well.

Granted, history will tell you that we don't need best 22 KPF stocks beyond Jones/Poite to succeed but I think we'd be a lot better if we could have all 3. That could allow us more flexibility with Poite as RUC/FWD. At this point, I'm not completely confident in Jones' body either.

But we need to have a proper functioning (and balanced) team around them.

If we only had pick 3 still and next pick 21; then I'd prioritise the elite mid. If we could somehow move 3 > 6~ and package up 21, Shiel and that difference to move up, that would be ideal IMO.

 

[Keystone agony]

If we wait till Wright is 30 then we would have dropped the ball with regard to forward planning.

The top 5-10 pick key forward would be in year 3 when Wrights turning 30