News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[Elmer_Hauser]

We know this is the reason why. All about money over keeping the competition fair. Just need to look at this ridiculous ‘round 0’ rubbish trying to take market share off NRL when they’re in America. Teams getting an extra bye it’s laughable.

I honestly believe Round Zero is going to be a one off.

I don't mind the AFL trying something different but I don't think this will take off as expected, but more than happy to be proven wrong..

 

[Caligo]

Yep. The academies and the AFL are killing it up North. Just got to fix up the matching rules so the Northern clubs don't wind up being too dominant.

They sure are. Living in Sydney's inner west I see more kids kicking sherrins than Gilberts. It is wonderful.

They can iron out the inconsistencies by raising the points values of top 5 picks and whatever else, but the academies are doing their job.

 

[Dudoro]

Yep. The academies and the AFL are killing it up North. Just got to fix up the matching rules so the Northern clubs don't wind up being too dominant.

Would you have that same tone if you weren’t gifted gun FS and NGA players? If you were rebuilding and your early pick got pushed back?

 

[Caligo]

Would you have that same tone if you weren’t gifted gun FS and NGA players? If you were rebuilding and your early pick got pushed back?

My club is rebuilding and has been pushed back multiple times through academy and nga and father son picks. Before this week our last top 5 pick was lance franklin almost two decades ago.

I still have the same tone. Academies are good for the game, even if my club is disadvantaged.

 

[Hook461123]

They sure are. Living in Sydney's inner west I see more kids kicking sherrins than Gilberts. It is wonderful.

They can iron out the inconsistencies by raising the points values of top 5 picks and whatever else, but the academies are doing their job.

What about WA football? We're meant to prop up a bunch of teams and subsidize their development while our development pathways get overlooked and are suffering.
Eagles NGA are indigenous kids who need just as much development pathways as northern states.

 

[Caligo]

What about WA football? We're meant to prop up a bunch of teams and subsidize their development while our development pathways get overlooked and are suffering.
Eages NGA are indigenous kids who need just as much development pathways as northern states.

I am not an expert with respect to WA, and maybe the country kids need more support, but certainly the city kids in Perth don't need the same help as a kid on the Gold Coast with no talent pathway.

 

[RonnieRaven]

AFL is winning the code wars in Brisbane and having an impact in Sydney, and getting more kids playing our game instead of NRL or the other Rugby code (soccer is our biggest threat)

I think that is reason enough to justify the Swans and Lions academies tbh.

That’s awesome in a business sense but I got into sport because I love sport if I was into business I would follow Wesfarmers stocks and get excited with a new store opening wrestling market share from Woolworths group.

 

[Hook461123]

I am not an expert with respect to WA, and maybe the country kids need more support, but certainly the city kids in Perth don't need the same help as a kid on the Gold Coast with no talent pathway.

Eagles NGA is indigenous and diverse cultures only. Not city kids from Perth

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Top 30 picks:

Chesser
Sonsie
Rachele
Horne-Francis
Conway
Sinn
Hobbs

Bazzo (Pick 37)
Howes (Pick 39)

That's half of the starting team taken high in the draft.

Only half of the current squad is tied to academies, so you have to halve that number again.

So what, being generous, 5-6 of the top 40 picks will be academy players, judging by that info?

If anything, it's low, based on what we're seeing.

 

[Caligo]

That’s awesome in a business sense but I got into sport because I love sport if I was into business I would follow Wesfarmers stocks and get excited with a new store opening wrestling market share from Woolworths group.

Sport is business/entertainment. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

 

[Caligo]

Eagles NGA is indigenous and diverse cultures only. Not kids from Perth

Nobody from a diverse culture lives in Perth?

 

[RUNVS]

It seems to be the first round picks getting folk so worked up.

Maybe it should be something like

1st round - 125% (Maybe the first 15 picks?)
2nd round - 100% (Picks 16-30?)
3rd + rounds - 75% - this would mean the borderline academy/FS players are more likely to be taken.

Some are suggesting you need a pick within 10 of the bid, but this isn't really practical for the clubs matching. It then becomes too subjective and hard to predict.

Adjusting the points scale is another option.

Any change to the academy bids should absolutely apply to FS players too.

Too much. Outside the top 10 there is usually a large drop off in quality, sometimes even less than the top 10.

 

[Caligo]

It seems to be the first round picks getting folk so worked up.

Maybe it should be something like

1st round - 125% (Maybe the first 15 picks?)
2nd round - 100% (Picks 16-30?)
3rd + rounds - 75% - this would mean the borderline academy/FS players are more likely to be taken.

Some are suggesting you need a pick within 10 of the bid, but this isn't really practical for the clubs matching. It then becomes too subjective and hard to predict.

Adjusting the points scale is another option.

Any change to the academy bids should absolutely apply to FS players too.

As RUNVS said, it is definitely the top 10 picks (especially top 5) that cause all the drama. Just like how the McKay dodgy compo was only drama because it was top 5.

 

[RUNVS]

Tom Papely says hi.

What was the last player the Swans lost that they were unhappy about?

Dawson.

How many have agreed to move to the Swans?

Grundy, Taylor Adams, McCartney and let's not forget about Buddy with the AFL paying the COLA cash before it was made public and stopped.

Never mind the growing list of academy kids you got at a discount.

Swans are REALLY doing it tough. NOT!

I am guessing you mean McCartin, and he was not even listed at a club when we took him.

Between Buddy and Grundy we were not able to trade in a single best 22 player from another club. That is over 10 years.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Sport is business/entertainment. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

You can do both without compromising integrity.
AFL have crossed the line
In bed with gambling companies
Multiple sets of rules.
There is not one aspect in the AFL that hasn’t been compremised

 

[RonnieRaven]

Sport is business/entertainment. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

Do you work for the AFL?
Sport is business and entertainment
No it’s not that’s WWF
Sport is usually governed by a set of rules or customs, which serve to ensure fair competition, and allow consistent adjudication of the winner

 

[Hook461123]

Nobody from a diverse culture lives in Perth?

They or both parents need to be born overseas in a non english speaking country.
Hardly traditional footy kids that a lof of these Northen academy kids are.

Not sure how giving other clubs the same rules around access to academy prospects hurts NSW and QLD footy. They can still have all the same pathways and grassroot investment. Swans and Lions have been in the comp for 30 years.

 

[Dudoro]

My club is rebuilding and has been pushed back multiple times through academy and nga and father son picks. Before this week our last top 5 pick was lance franklin almost two decades ago.

I still have the same tone. Academies are good for the game, even if my club is disadvantaged.

Yeah I’m sure your 80k plus members agree and are thrilled that their disadvantaged for the ‘good of the game’ haha

 

[Caligo]

Yeah I’m sure your 80k plus members agree and are thrilled that their disadvantaged for the ‘good of the game’ haha

I can't speak for them, only myself.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

The issue is not the Academies, but the access to them that the northern teams enjoy. I don’t think any reasonable person could have an issue with them existing, more that the 4 northern clubs have priority access to them.

AFL Draft 2023: Clubs considered protest against league’s ‘broken’ academy system​

More than half of the AFL’s clubs considered a draft protest as pressure builds on the league to review its controversial academy system.
Jay Clark

@ClarkyHeraldSun

3 min read
November 22, 2023 - 3:09PM
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom
https://archive.md/STxfw/again?url=.../c3153fc01a7b98c085febacb5e96710d#share-tools

AFL: Celebrations were rife as the Giants shock everyone by selecting forward Phoenix Gothard with pick No. 12 in the AFL Draft.
Clubs discussed not bidding on any of Gold Coast’s four academy stars in Monday night’s national draft as part of a protest against the league’s “broken” academy system.
Recruiting officials from Victorian clubs spoke about letting the Suns’ guns slide through to the late part of the draft as a way to thumb their noses at the academy concessions to northern clubs and rail against the top-40 cap on Victorian clubs.
But the plot fell over as North Melbourne made clear it would bid on powerhouse forward Jed Walter at pick three after receiving a generous concession package from the AFL in September.
Tensions about the academy system – including the four northern academies and 14 next generation academies – has reached fever pitch in recent days as clubs vented their various frustrations.

Jed Walter gets his jumper from Damien Hardwick. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images
In particular, West Coast is furious it missed out on next generation academy product Lance Collard due to the cap restricting 14 clubs — outside of Queensland and New South Wales — from taking players inside the first 40 picks.
The Eagles have helped develop Collard but sat back with their hands tied as St Kilda swooped on the skilful forward at pick 28.
Essendon pinched defender Luamon Lual (Western Bulldogs academy), Collingwood took backman Tew Jiath (Hawthorn) and Geelong nabbed ruckman Mitch Edwards (Fremantle), inside the first 40 picks, making “a mockery” of the NGA system, according to one list boss.
But the four northern clubs have free reign on their local talent as Gold Coast swooped on four jets inside the first 25 picks — Walter, ruckman Ethan Read, livewire Jake Rogers and ballwinner Will Graham — leaving rebuilding West Coast in their wake.

The Eagles weren’t able to match St Kilda’s Lance Collard selection. Picture: Sarah Reed/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Club officials told the Herald Sun they spoke about not bidding on the four prodigious Gold Coast academy talents as part of a stand against it, but the idea did not receive full support.
Victorian have lobbied the AFL to drop the cap on next generation academies to the first-round, meaning they have guaranteed access to NGA players outside the top-20.
The cap does not apply to the four northern states clubs — Gold Coast, Brisbane, GWS Giants and Sydney Swans.
But the 14 other clubs have pleaded with the AFL to make changes to the system to provide greater incentive and reward for the clubs south and west of the Murray River.
West Coast list chief Rohan O’Brien said the AFL had to act.
“It is really frustrating when you have done a lot of work with those (NGA) players (who are drafted elsewhere),” O’Brien said.
“It is time for a real discussion around what it might look like in the future.”



But Brisbane chairman Andrew Wellington responded to the “angst” on Wednesday, saying any attempt from the AFL to wind back the northern clubs’ academies would be an error.
The Northern clubs can draft local players from their own academy at a 20 per cent discount.
But the 14 other clubs want that discount to be removed so they pay a fairer price for top talent.
Wellington urged the AFL to ignore the complaints from Victorian clubs.
“Academies grow the game in non-traditional AFL states which makes the code stronger for everyone,” Wellington said.
“They address a disadvantage which is real and based on results there’s no evidence they have created 4 northern super clubs at the expense of other clubs.
“To unwind a strategy each time you get evidence it might be working appropriately would be a serious miscalculation.”
There is also a call to reassess the next generation academy zone boundaries for Victorian clubs due to some “barren catchment areas”.
Geelong, Adelaide, Carlton and Melbourne have only taken two players each from their NGA’s over the past eight years.

More Coverage​

Rookie Draft: See every pick as clubs line up for sliders
‘Best kick in the world’: Booze ban doesn’t stop Saints picking slider
“There’s different zones are stronger than others and right at the moment if there was a way to even that up a bit, I think that would be good,” legendary Geelong recruiter Stephen Wells said.
Collingwood recruiting chief Derek Hine said he had to keep his thoughts to himself.
“I’m probably not the best one to ask about that I can tell you, I’ll get myself in trouble,” Hine said.

 

[sr36]

Would you have that same tone if you weren’t gifted gun FS and NGA players? If you were rebuilding and your early pick got pushed back?

Yes. I think the impact of the academy matching rules will cost Collingwood slot more than picks being pushed back, I think it will cost us a premiership or two over the next 5 years when I expect us to be challenging for flags.
.
But there's a difference between the academies and the advantageous drafting access rules.

More than developing AFL players, the academies will develop long term footy fans with a strong connection to clubs that desperately need supporters. Just got to get better drafting rules, as the current ones will create juggernauts.

 

[Dogflogger]

It might be good for the game to grow into rugby states at any cost but its a hard pill to swallow for any supporter of a team who hasn't had success in their lifetime, we only live so long and when the league keeps adding teams and making more concessions and keeps the draft compromised for business growth I think your killing the hope of a lot of fans of actually seeing a GF win in their lifetime. Personally i'd rather see the games growth stagnate than watch a Gold Coast 3peat or dynasty off the back of just wanting to grow the game in that area.

 

[Lach72]

I’d be happy with this:

All academies are quarantined from picks 1-18. You want them, you draft them as per usual. After that you can match.

FS - if a bid comes the first round YOU MUST match using at least a first. Perhaps firsts could be divided into 3 divisions: if a bid comes top 5 you must use your first. If your first is top 5 you add no more.
if your first is 6-12 you must add a third round
if your first is 12-18 you must add a second.

could Adjust depending on when the bid comes.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Yeah I’m sure your 80k plus members agree and are thrilled that their disadvantaged for the ‘good of the game’ haha

It’s easier to ride the high horse when someone’s team has won 5 flags with the help of being a desirable mcg tenant priority picks and picking the eyes out of the best talent in the sanfl in my time watching football.
Like a philanthropist who’s worth $50 billion donating a few hours and millions to help out.

 

[jackenny]

Why do all conversations about the unfairness of the academies come back to this line of argument?

Is it simplistic to say the following?

2022 ladder positions

Gold Coast 12
West Coast 12

2023 ladder positions

Gold Coast 15
West Coast 18

Does it not speak to the inequities of the system that West Coast end up with 2 first round selections, compared to GC's 5?

Yeah, and West Coast won a premiership in 2018. The Suns are yet to even make finals. The nascent Dockers made finals for the first time in less than a decade after their first season. In comparison, it’s 13 years and counting for the Suns. Trust me, the Suns need more help.

It’s not just about attracting capable and talented players, though; growing grassroots football in non-AFL territory increases the talent pool of coaches, trainers, list managers, scouts, recruitment officers, journalists, umpires, and of course fans, effectively making the product as a whole better for every football lover. It creates opportunities and jobs and specialists out of people who might’ve looked at applying their talents to another code instead. That’s the real overall benefit.

The fear that all these concessions are going to turn clubs into powerhouses is overblown; Sydney and Brisbane are simply well-established; the Suns and Giants have yet to truly establish themselves in relative comparison, though.

Are these huge handouts? Yes. But that’s the gulf between the Suns and a club like Collingwood for example. We get all these concessions and we’re still yet to make finals. Pies get one father-son concession (Daicos) and they’re a premiership winning side. Same with Hawkins, Ablett, and Geelong. Can’t underestimate the advantage of having well-established facilities over anything else, imo.