AFLPA Vs C7

[The Night Shift]

An interesting battle developing between the players and C7. I have to say every Australian has the right to private and confidential medical records, in fact it is illegal to release any of that information, say like "finding" it in the gutter of a street and selling it to the media. I support the players actions in boycotting interviews and media contact. We all want drugs out of sport but they are crossing the line here. The thief's should do time for this. The theft smears all health workers who have to deal with confidential information.

What do you guys think about it??

 

[Kram]

Yeah, it's pretty ordinary effort from someone supposedly in a position of trust. Channel 7 should know better too.

The "I found it in a gutter" claim was similar to the old car crash insurance "a dog ran out in front of my car" claim.

 

[estibador]

Yeah, the only thing that lady found in the gutter was her morals.

 

[Dyslexic Emo]

[FONT=&quot]Here's what I think champ,

Of course I believe that any medical records between any doctor and client shall and should be held private, However, we should also recognise that in this case, it was not of one where personal and private information in respect to a players individual medical records were leaked, rather that a case of the AFL’s three strikes and you out policy has been implemented. And in this case I see no valid reason as to why the person/persons in questions should not be held accountable for the fact that they have breached the cod of conduct in respect to player conduct. Every AFL player is subject to random drug tests, if one should fail one, then should it not become public knowledge, as in par with most sporting organisations i.e.: Stan lazararidis, and be hence reprimanded… why should a first time offender escape reprimand and persecutions of something that in any other sporting code would be classified as detrimental to the game.[/FONT]

 

[estibador]

[FONT=&quot] why should a first time offender escape reprimand and persecutions of something that in any other sporting code would be classified as detrimental to the game.[/FONT]

Because when AFL players agreed to undergo out of competition testing for recreational drugs (something not many other sporting bodies do) the deal was the AFL would institute a policy of rehabilitation and complete privacy for the first two strikes.

If a player tested positve for coke on gameday then they would rightly be named and hit with the mandatory 12 month sentence (or whatever it is.)

But testing for recreational drugs in the offseason is a whole different kettle of fish. Olympic athletes are only tested in competition, so AFL players have agreed to go above and beyond the world standard for drug testing. In return they were guaranteed their records would be kept confidential.

But more than once now the AFL's testing agencies have betrayed the players trust and names have been leaked to the media. Players are entrusting their private medical records to a bunch of monkeys who've proven themselves to be completely inept and unprofessional.

It's a shameful state of affairs and I don't blame the players one bit for being pissed off. I would support them 100% if they refused to undergo anymore out of competition testing for NPE drugs. Maybe then the AFL could spend more money on the much more important issue of testing for performance enhancing drugs.

 

[Dyslexic Emo]

Dear Estibator (of which whose opinion I hold in high regard…. which given the chance I will acknowledge when I am allowed to post threads)

Maybe I am uniformed in this situation, in respect as to the legitimacy of the ‘on field’ and ‘off field testing’ legitimacy case. I still believe that in this case; Channel 7 and so and so, has acted in a way that no person friend or foe, would like to be treated…. to which I agree.

My point, which maybe was clouded by my love for the quiz night, will hopeful be explained in the next paragraphs.

What I was trying to portray was the point that during a season, should not a player be able to be subjected to random drug tests, which are mandatory as stipulated by the AFLPA?

And as such, then if those recorded (positive or negative) be known to the AFL who is the governing body of this game. Be able to determine that they have in fact breached the laws of the game…I understand that the laws of ALF are not similar to those of other governing bodies…but I do still believe that they shall and should still receive the same scrutiny. Off season or not (of which I have still claimed ignorance) I still claim that within the laws of the game, and to which I mean that any player should be able to be subjected to random tests, yet not revelling of personal medical records, that if they are and have been shown to be partakers of the drug…. then just like any other code, should it not be allowed to be known to the public? For this would not breach any Medical laws as for they are part of an organisation that has a goal to eradicate this kind of misdemeanour form its game.

We all want the best for our players, as to which both of us can both agree. Yet by sitting blindly do we not create a culture of tolerance? I know this may sound simplistic, but I still believe that if the clubs know of past discrepancies the problem could be solved yet instead is looked over/turned a blind eye…for example: If A child from school was caught possessing,…or indulging in elicit substances, should he/she be given a first/second/third chance?…in this cut throat world of education it is prevalent that there is zero tolerance…this in my opinion is very draconian and as such should not be applied….However…would not it be better if the club/family/society be involved in this whole process of rehabilitation rather that being be kept secret on the midst of medical secracy ( to of which i believe if it was medical, rather recreational) should be held private?

M@

[FONT=&quot]Please forgive any mistakes I have made as I am on my last legs tonight….GO FREO!!!!![/FONT]

 

[Dyslexic Emo]

Don't judge me too harshly, as I have indulged in a few Merlot's in the process of wrting this reply....I am a newbie afterall folks....I mean no harm

M@

 

[dockertor]

Dear Estibator (of which whose opinion I hold in high regard…. which given the chance I will acknowledge when I am allowed to post threads)

Maybe I am uniformed in this situation, in respect as to the legitimacy of the ‘on field’ and ‘off field testing’ legitimacy case. I still believe that in this case; Channel 7 and so and so, has acted in a way that no person friend or foe, would like to be treated…. to which I agree.

My point, which maybe was clouded by my love for the quiz night, will hopeful be explained in the next paragraphs.

What I was trying to portray was the point that during a season, should not a player be able to be subjected to random drug tests, which are mandatory as stipulated by the AFLPA?

And as such, then if those recorded (positive or negative) be known to the AFL who is the governing body of this game. Be able to determine that they have in fact breached the laws of the game…I understand that the laws of ALF are not similar to those of other governing bodies…but I do still believe that they shall and should still receive the same scrutiny. Off season or not (of which I have still claimed ignorance) I still claim that within the laws of the game, and to which I mean that any player should be able to be subjected to random tests, yet not revelling of personal medical records, that if they are and have been shown to be partakers of the drug…. then just like any other code, should it not be allowed to be known to the public? For this would not breach any Medical laws as for they are part of an organisation that has a goal to eradicate this kind of misdemeanour form its game.

We all want the best for our players, as to which both of us can both agree. Yet by sitting blindly do we not create a culture of tolerance? I know this may sound simplistic, but I still believe that if the clubs know of past discrepancies the problem could be solved yet instead is looked over/turned a blind eye…for example: If A child from school was caught possessing,…or indulging in elicit substances, should he/she be given a first/second/third chance?…in this cut throat world of education it is prevalent that there is zero tolerance…this in my opinion is very draconian and as such should not be applied….However…would not it be better if the club/family/society be involved in this whole process of rehabilitation rather that being be kept secret on the midst of medical secracy ( to of which i believe if it was medical, rather recreational) should be held private?

M@

[FONT=&quot]Please forgive any mistakes I have made as I am on my last legs tonight….GO FREO!!!!![/FONT]

The problem is that the testing that we are referring to is extra to the standard ASDA policies which are implemented by most sports and the only reason we have them at all is because of the agreement of the AFLPA and the AFL. It is designed to be a preventative program. That program may be derailed be the uninformed criticism of it and the obsession of the media to “out” any positive tests. I personally would not blame the AFL and the AFLPA if they just dropped the extra testing altogether. However that would be a sad outcome for the players, because an extra level of protection on this very serious health issue would be removed.
Would that make the naysayers happy?

 

[The Night Shift]

[FONT=&quot]Of course I believe that any medical records between any doctor and client shall and should be held private, However, we should also recognise that in this case, it was not of one where personal and private information in respect to a players individual medical records were leaked, rather that a case of the AFL’s three strikes and you out policy has been implemented. And in this case I see no valid reason as to why the person/persons in questions should not be held accountable for the fact that they have breached the cod of conduct in respect to player conduct. Every AFL player is subject to random drug tests, if one should fail one, then should it not become public knowledge, as in par with most sporting organisations i.e.: Stan lazararidis, and be hence reprimanded… why should a first time offender escape reprimand and persecutions of something that in any other sporting code would be classified as detrimental to the game.[/FONT]

Firstly - in the real world I can tell you with great certainty that yours/mine/everyones medical record is property of the state government. There is no exceptions or public interest in whatever the contents are and are only released to other approved medical practitioners or through subpoenas to either the police or legal system whom are all bound by the same confidentiality legislation. Basically stealing a medical record is stealing from the government, which they tend to be very hard on in the courts.
Those thieves are bumbling morons who are more stupider than Dr. Claw henchmen from Inspector Gadget hopefully get what they have coming to them from the courts. C7 have no excuse for ignorance and should've known better, but in their fervor of a witch hunt have forgotten there ethics. I watch with interest because it's something very close to which I work with and those thieves broke an absolute golden rule.

I can see why the players are upset, because there are bigger issues at place in this dispute other than drug policies and positive drug results. An infringement of basic rights. This kind of reminds me of EDTV - seen that movie - that is what the power of having privy medical information can wield.

Don't judge me too harshly, as I have indulged in a few Merlot's in the process of wrting this reply....I am a newbie afterall folks....I mean no harm

Nothing wrong with a late night tipple in my book, although I am a graveyard shift kind of guy.

So are you an Emo?

 

[Sailor]

So the players are upset because some of them have been found out using illegal drugs?

If I were one of the "clean" players, which I presume are in the majority, I would be more upset at the slur on the game by those illegal drug users. But I guess when it happened at the Eagles the majority accepted the abuse of the minority so one assumes that will continue.

I think it is about time the cleanskins started to demand that the rest clean up their act and stop dragging the good guys down.

The game has to be bigger than a small group of illegal drug users.

Kick them out sez me.

 

[dominguez]

The difference between Stan Lazaridis and the AFL players is that Stan has tested positive to a masking agent, similar to Shane Warne. The AFL players in question tested positive to illicate drugs outside of competition, so there is no suggestion that they were using them to enhance their performance. Obviously Stan isn't a drug cheat either, but if what he was taking was on the banned list he should have known better.

I'm assuming the people who stole the medical records were drug addicts being treated at the same clinic? If not how did they get access?

Interesting that the WA players will apparently still be speaking to channel seven. We won't have another game telecast by channel seven, but if the eagles players are willing to go against the wishes of their union will they be seen as scabs?

 

[dominguez]

If I were one of the "clean" players, which I presume are in the majority, I would be more upset at the slur on the game by those illegal drug users. But I guess when it happened at the Eagles the majority accepted the abuse of the minority so one assumes that will continue.

I think it is about time the cleanskins started to demand that the rest clean up their act and stop dragging the good guys down.

Not that I condone or encourage drug use, but what percentage of 17-30 year olds in the community would have tried marijuana, ecstacy, speed or crystal meth? It would have to be more than 50%.

 

[The Night Shift]

Not that I condone or encourage drug use, but what percentage of 17-30 year olds in the community would have tried marijuana, ecstacy, speed or crystal meth? It would have to be more than 50%.

I think you left banana skins off the list

 

[dockers_bengals]

IMO the players should be attacking the AFL and drug agency for the leak.Ch7 did what any other station would have done whether you agree with what they did or not.If Ch7 have done something Illegal couldn't they be sued?Held accountable in someway?and why should AFL players be protected when we are not?Again we are seeing the poor us attitude from these people yet they sign big contracts and are constantly told/counselled of the expectations and consequences of their actions.

 

[masai]

So the players are upset because some of them have been found out using illegal drugs?

If I were one of the "clean" players, which I presume are in the majority, I would be more upset at the slur on the game by those illegal drug users. But I guess when it happened at the Eagles the majority accepted the abuse of the minority so one assumes that will continue.

I think it is about time the cleanskins started to demand that the rest clean up their act and stop dragging the good guys down.

The game has to be bigger than a small group of illegal drug users.

Kick them out sez me.

You are on the same wavelength as me.

Yes it appears the documents were obtained in a shady manner, but it documented illegal activity at a footy club. Yes 7 have done a very low thing, but the Players Association should look at their members rather than all this chest beating.

The Players Association need to start looking at the "drug problem" seiously, rather than turning a blind eye to it.

 

[dockertor]

You are on the same wavelength as me.

Yes it appears the documents were obtained in a shady manner, but it documented illegal activity at a footy club. Yes 7 have done a very low thing, but the Players Association should look at their members rather than all this chest beating.

The Players Association need to start looking at the "drug problem" seiously, rather than turning a blind eye to it.

I see what you’re saying but the point is that they are looking after the players. The AFLPA and the AFL put the drugs policy into place to protect the players. It is seriously in danger of being derailed.
Do people think that not testing would be better? That way there would be no results to “cover up”. That could be the ultimate result of this kind of breach of confidentiality.

 

[The Night Shift]

You are on the same wavelength as me.

Yes it appears the documents were obtained in a shady manner, but it documented illegal activity at a footy club. Yes 7 have done a very low thing, but the Players Association should look at their members rather than all this chest beating.

The Players Association need to start looking at the "drug problem" seiously, rather than turning a blind eye to it.

Your missing the point
Medical Records are privtae and confidential. Full Stop. So what a lot of you guys are saying it's okay to have some people medical records as media fodder, but as long as it;s not yours.The ends dosent justify the measn in this case. Medical records are sealed for a reason.

 

[estibador]

Yes it appears the documents were obtained in a shady manner, but it documented illegal activity at a footy club.

Yes the players were involved in illegal activity and if they were stupid enough to be caught by the law then they should be punished appropriately. But it shouldn't be up to the AFL to be the moral guardian of the players' private lives.

Otherwise where do we draw the line? Speed guns in every AFL player's car? 3 strikes caught speeding and you're out? After all speeding/running red lights etc are arguably more dangerous to themselves and other people than players popping a pill on Saturday night.

The AFL should only be concerned with policing the fairness of their competition by ensuring rigorous testing for performance enhancing drugs. That's their domain. There's no logical reason for the AFL to test for out of competition recreational drug use except to pander to society's anti-drug hysteria. The players have allowed the AFL to exceed their mandate and the AFL has let them down with an amateur set up that has twice now led to confidential reports being leaked to the media.

 

[estibador]

The Players Association need to start looking at the "drug problem" seiously, rather than turning a blind eye to it.

There is far less of a 'drug problem' in footy clubs now than the old alcohol abuse problems that have been tied into footy club culture since the beginning of time. No one seemed to think it was a problem when players were getting paralytic 3 or 4 nights a week. But now that a few of them are racking up lines or popping pills before going out it's suddenly a big problem.

Every fight or disturbance at every party I've ever been to has always been the result of some pain in the ass aggressive drunk. Go to a party where people are popping pills and they're more likely to try hug you than fight you. That's the sort of drug problem I can handle.

 

[Kram]

Every fight or disturbance at every party I've ever been to has always been the result of some pain in the ass aggressive drunk. Go to a party where people are popping pills and they're more likely to try hug you than fight you. That's the sort of drug problem I can handle.

That's E though, Methamphetamine is a completely different thing, the problems that I have seen that cause . .

To be honest I think the whole drug thing isn't that big of an issue, half the people that age try stuff occasionally. I prefer they keep away from rubbish during the season though. In '03' I saw one former and one current player out at 3am looking quite 'lively' after playing a game and they certainly didn't look like they were having a couple of drinks. I always thought players should be more concerned with recovery after playing a game of AFL football.

 

[Dyslexic Emo]

So are you an Emo?

I'm sorry to dissapoint any black haired sad sacks out their but no, i'm not an emo. And neither am I dyslexic. It's just a nickname I got a a while ago, Interestingly enough a long time before the term emo was actually used in mainstream society, It all started with a study I conducted whereby everyone was classified according to their learning difficulty and their name ( purely for ease of grouping on my part) and during this I just miss splent Moe which turned into Emo, which we all laughed at considering he was Dyslexic, so from then on I have had this nickname.

M@

 

[estibador]

That's E though, Methamphetamine is a completely different thing, the problems that I have seen that cause . .

True, can do. In moderation though it doesn't usually cause any problems. Mind you, you could say that about anything.

But it seems our 3 major incidents this year (Farmer x2 and Taz) have all been alcohol related. Despite all the drug paranoia it still seems to be alcohol that gets players into trouble more than anything.

To be honest I think the whole drug thing isn't that big of an issue, half the people that age try stuff occasionally. I prefer they keep away from rubbish during the season though. In '03' I saw one former and one current player out at 3am looking quite 'lively' after playing a game and they certainly didn't look like they were having a couple of drinks. I always thought players should be more concerned with recovery after playing a game of AFL football.

In an ideal world I'd want our players to live like monks. But if they do have to go out and party I'd rather they stick to taking whatever will compromise their performance and recovery the least.

From all reports alcohol is pretty bad at affecting recovery after a game, so maybe it's better for player to pop a pill or have a line. As long as they're sensible about it, don't go overboard and don't get caught, then I don't really care.

 

[masai]

Your missing the point
Medical Records are privtae and confidential. Full Stop. So what a lot of you guys are saying it's okay to have some people medical records as media fodder, but as long as it;s not yours.The ends dosent justify the measn in this case. Medical records are sealed for a reason.

I see where you are coming from, medical records are private.

If anyone got my medical records they would be very bored, I have nothing to hide.

 

[The Night Shift]

...although there can be the tomes of deep dark secrest for many many people. They are best left private.

 

[FD369]

Forgive me for taking a different slant on this but...

Wouldn't C7 have been smarter to ring Brendan Gale and say "we have these papers in our possesion which show what xxxx and xxxxx have been up to. They are yours to do what you like with".

That way C7 would then have a very big bargaining chip to play with when dealing with players media access etc. and then run a big story on how the channel exposed a leak in the AFL drug testing results and what such good guys they are for not exposing players/clubs. Then C7 would also have one up on all other media outlets as they would be the only ones that know the details of the document.

I know it's way left field for a soulless corporation, but hey... maybe thats why i dont run a media outlet