Alex Rance vs. Michael Hurley

[Summer Nights]

The guys clearly a idiot desperate to justify his one eyed opinion, can't believe he's actually pulling out Rance conceded 17.5% of Geelongs score.
Reality is it was the most junktine goal of all time in the final 10 minutes in a game where Rance lead a defence that conceded 5 goals for the entire match.
But he doesn't get as manic cheap possessions as Hurley so clearly not as good.

Great analysis. You've not successfully addressed my point about what people calling it a junktime goal are implying. And referencing team goals conceded is adding your own point while failing to provide a specific argument against what's been said. It smacks of acceptance, sorry. As many Richmond supporters as you want can like all the pro-Rance comments while Richmond is playing great team football, but the truth is Rance has been destroyed more times this year than Hurley and conceded more percentage of his opponents' score than Hurley - consistently.

Not to mention he's a massive scragger and get away with murder. That's what makes Hurley even better because he plays without holding and pushing in the back.

And finally the Neighbours acting of Alex is no reflection of his playing ability but makes him come across like a pussy.

Can't wait for the next bath Rance receives from an ageing key forward like Nick Riewoldt or an old backman-cum-forward like H Taylor. lol.

 

[Summer Nights]

Is this the same game that Franklin had two scoring shots and kicked 1.1?

No. Franklin had 4 shots on goal in the first half, despite Rance infringing 12 times in the whole match, only 2 of which were paid as frees against. I analysed the game in a play by play, and don't even need to go back and refer to the notes, such was how indelible it was.

 

[Richo83]

No. Franklin had 4 shots on goal in the first half, despite Rance infringing 12 times in the whole match, only 2 of which were paid as frees against. I analysed the game in a play by play, and don't even need to go back and refer to the notes, such was how indelible it was.

Show me the four shots.

 

[DontArgue4]

From the inside football player ratings:

Hurley against Sydney: "Got owned by Sinclair in first half in what was a disappointing result given the season he’s had. Forget possession numbers." 4 out of 10.

Rance against Geelong: "Thrashed Taylor and was steadfast in defence as a pillar on the win. Got in the way all night." 8 out of 10.

these ratings describe the two players beautifully, hurley is a good defender and a supreme receiver/stat chaser while rance is a defender first and receiver second

daylight between them as defenders

rance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hurley

 

[Richo83]

SEN ratings makes a mockery of the below post.

I think Hurley is a gun but the rankings definitely undermime any effort to criticise Rance's performance against the cats and any effort to pump up Hurley's finals performance. Rance has been great in both finals and against Sydney, the game where he was apparently terrible he got one brownlow vote!

 

[Ambrosia]

I think Hurley is a gun but the rankings definitely undermime any effort to criticise Rance's performance against the cats and any effort to pump up Hurley's finals performance. Rance has been great in both finals and against Sydney, the game where he was apparently terrible he got one brownlow vote!

Agreed. Hurley was very average in the final and didn't look fit in my opinion

 

[Summer Nights]

Show me the four shots.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ack-of-all-time.1166637/page-39#post-50924593

 

[Richo83]

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ack-of-all-time.1166637/page-39#post-50924593

I count only two that we can confirm are actual attempts on goal rather than kicks towards an attacking part of the ground. For instance you credit Rance with a shot on goal but I'd say that was more an attempt to pass to a player. As for your blaming of Rance for Reid's two goals, Rance was minding Franklin for the first one and was the first to respond to a teammate's shocking blunder. He was out of position because the kick was terrible and he wasn't expecting it. The fourth goal by Rohan is perhaps Rance's fault, but because Richmond were throwing bodies up forward, this left players free once Sydney got the ball, meaning Rance was outnumbered.

Anyway, if we're including shots on goal by Franklin that don't score then his total mount of shots skyrockets. It also forgets the fact that some teams play a defence where they try and prevent shots close to goal. Franklin has kicked a lot of goals from far out but like all forwards he is more accurate closer to goal.

You also claim that if a defender is free, then he is responsible if a free player wins the ball. I don't buy that at all and I think American Football, which has a similar one-on-one catch the ball dynamic with running patterns and space guarding to its forwardline play shows why. In American football, it is not uncommon for free safeties to guard space, that's why they're free safeties. But often cornerbacks, who play man-to-man coverage leave players loose due to poor marking. Is it the safety's fault that the cornerback doesn't (even though they're not really free as we use the term, they're still given a responsibility) do its job, given the safety is guarding space and not a player? No. This is why, in a modern age of zone defences, fans have to accept that just because a player isn't standing besides a player or marking a player, doesn't make them free, they're often guarding space. Maybe Rance could have charged away from his zone coverage towards Reid, but that probably would have left the players closer to goal free, and anyway, I suspect Rance was caught out by the fact that Lloyd coughed up the ball, which ended up in Sydney quickly kicking it to Reid.

What we didn't see much against Sydney is Rance being outbodied and beaten in marking contests, which tells me he had a good game.

 

[Richo83]

Or, in other words, the idea that defenders are either constantly covering someone like Prestigiacomo or are loose players looking for a rebound like Bowden is outdated. Zoning defences guard space which means if multiple players enter the space a defender is covering, they're responsible for not one but two or more players. And being able to do zone coverage of a space is really hard, in some ways harder than merely sticking with a player. Zone defenders have to read the play as well as stick to a player when required. This is why Rance is seen as better than Astbury, because Astbury merely covers players, Rance mixes it up by sometimes covering zones and sometimes being put on a specific player. Hurley plays zone defence a lot too.

 

[juss]

Rance polled double the amount of Brownlow votes Hurley did, despite Hurley being more of a stats merchant.
Rance once again polled the most votes of any key defender in the league. Just another metric, among the many other awards he leads in.

 

[Summer Nights]

I knew some muppet would bring up Brownlow votes. Enough said.

 

[Heisenberg_]

I knew some muppet would bring up Brownlow votes. Enough said.

It's more credible then literally everything you've posted/clutched at which says something.

 

[Summer Nights]

I count only two that we can confirm are actual attempts on goal rather than kicks towards an attacking part of the ground. For instance you credit Rance with a shot on goal but I'd say that was more an attempt to pass to a player. As for your blaming of Rance for Reid's two goals, Rance was minding Franklin for the first one and was the first to respond to a teammate's shocking blunder. He was out of position because the kick was terrible and he wasn't expecting it. The fourth goal by Rohan is perhaps Rance's fault, but because Richmond were throwing bodies up forward, this left players free once Sydney got the ball, meaning Rance was outnumbered.

Anyway, if we're including shots on goal by Franklin that don't score then his total mount of shots skyrockets. It also forgets the fact that some teams play a defence where they try and prevent shots close to goal. Franklin has kicked a lot of goals from far out but like all forwards he is more accurate closer to goal.

You also claim that if a defender is free, then he is responsible if a free player wins the ball. I don't buy that at all and I think American Football, which has a similar one-on-one catch the ball dynamic with running patterns and space guarding to its forwardline play shows why. In American football, it is not uncommon for free safeties to guard space, that's why they're free safeties. But often cornerbacks, who play man-to-man coverage leave players loose due to poor marking. Is it the safety's fault that the cornerback doesn't (even though they're not really free as we use the term, they're still given a responsibility) do its job, given the safety is guarding space and not a player? No. This is why, in a modern age of zone defences, fans have to accept that just because a player isn't standing besides a player or marking a player, doesn't make them free, they're often guarding space. Maybe Rance could have charged away from his zone coverage towards Reid, but that probably would have left the players closer to goal free, and anyway, I suspect Rance was caught out by the fact that Lloyd coughed up the ball, which ended up in Sydney quickly kicking it to Reid.

What we didn't see much against Sydney is Rance being outbodied and beaten in marking contests, which tells me he had a good game.

You're wrong in pretty much everything you say. Did you even go back and check? It doesn't seem like it, because if you did then you wouldn't say Franklin's 2 shots missed weren't scoring attempts. Just admit Franklin had 4 shots on goal and that Rance got lucky he didn't give away a lot more free kicks. He's the biggest scragger in the game: the modern day equivalent of SOS, and gets embarrassed when he has to defend within the rules.

To say one of Reid's goals was when Rance was minding Franklin proves you have NFI. Franklin was off the ground for the first and up the ground for the second. Rance's trick as loose man when his opponent takes a mark inside 50 is to run the other way and pretend it's not his man.

Richmond supporter approach to debate: deny the facts and lie.

 

[Summer Nights]

It's more credible then literally everything you've posted/clutched at which says something.

Incorrect. It's the worst form or argument to cite the Brownlow. The umpires award? Really??

 

[Heisenberg_]

Incorrect. It's the worst form or argument to cite the Brownlow. The umpires award? Really??

That one went straight over your head

 

[juss]

Incorrect. It's the worst form or argument to cite the Brownlow. The umpires award? Really??

You can cite any other award too. Literally any of them. The coaches, the players, all the media awards.

 

[tigerT]

So what percentage of adelaides score did Jenkins and ottens score on Rance today?

 

[Heisenberg_]

Close the thread even Hurley admits publicly that Rance is miles ahead of him

 

[juss]

Yeh the champion Rance was dominant in the Grand Final, in the top 5 players on the ground, time for this thread to be put to rest, he's a tier above Hurley.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Hurley's a great player. Just a level below Rance.

Herculean yesterday. With a lot of our defenders looking nervous early, Rance's efforts were huge in repelling many attacks.Really held the wall until the other's settled.

 

[rfc4eva]

Like asking if Bogut is better than lebron

 

[Gosha]

This thread is boring. Was a good laugh to start off with now it's just embarrassing.

 

[WN123]

Hurley was outmarked, on the goal line, in the last second, to lose the game, by Gary Rohan. Say no more.

The Hurley that was outmarked by Gary Rohan looked a lot more like Marty Gleeson - and was wearing Gleesons number.
Classic case of someone learning all about the game from what they read on Bigfooty - someone posted the same error after that game.

BTW Rance was brilliant in the GF. No shame in Hurley being 2nd best to him.

 

[Gosha]

Sos concedes

 

[Old M8]

View attachment 423799

Sos concedes

SOS might think he's the best defender in the comp, but Jade thinks Hurley is. I just can't work out which opinion holds more water.

SOS is one of the greatest defenders of all time, but Jade has made a lot of posts about Essendon. Gahhhhhh