News All saints fans need to read this.

[FlyingSledghamer]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/127990/default.aspx

Saints stung by financial loss
ST KILDA has posted an operating loss of $2,274,220 for the 2011 financial year, a result of a drop in membership, sponsorship and the club's relocation to the Linen House Centre in Seaford.

St Kilda is also pointing the finger at Etihad Stadium and blaming a continuous financial shortfall from "stadium revenue" on the loss (which is $1,500,722 before depreciation).

Despite being a finals regular for the past four seasons, and making Grand Finals in 2009 and 2010, the Saints announced the financial loss on Wednesday.

"We need to look to new ways to grow our revenue so that we can not only survive but thrive in a competitive environment that is changing at an unprecedented rate. Something we are actively planning for and pursuing with real purpose."

St Kilda's stadium revenue was down from 2010 by $971,333. And its membership also dropped in 2011, down four per cent, from 41,212 to 39,547.


THIS IS A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS! I'm not sure if all you saints fans and members were already aware of this but the club desperately needs EVERYONE'S financial help NOW! I urge all saints fans who love and are proud of this club like I am, to try and renew a membership, to buy a new membership or to make a donation to the club. We don't want to be reliant on handouts, we want to be a strong club.
Football Club spending has a direct influence on on-field performance, this is a proven fact. The financial support of fans helps to fund these types of activities. All us saints fans are dying for a 2nd Flag! Your financial support to the club in any way you can will directly help the club in achieving that goal.
Another great way to support the club is sponsorship.
L2 has been running a player sponsorship drive on here and we still need a lot more sponsors. Its an easy way to become actively involved in financially supporting the club. Even if you can't make a sponsorship payment. Just donate $15-$20. Don't think it doesn't make a difference. You can make a huge difference, and the club is really suffering at the moment. This is the best time to show your support... In any way possible.

 

[SA1NTER]

I plan to renew memebership when we get the letter the club sends out every year.

 

[hayes]

I've been a member since '04 but surely we can't go on at Etihad. How we ever let it get to the point where we were writing cheques to play games I'll never know.

 

[One 2 Roo]

I think it looks worse than it probably is. I would like to know what the turnover of an AFL club is??

A loss of $2m is not an ideal result, but there were a few events that didn't work in our favour that contributed to the loss.

We now have negotiated a higher amount of compensation from the AFL that offset's a little of completely shithouse stadium deal, which will help.

However, it is the support from fans and members that allow clubs to continue to buld, more fans = more sponsors.

More fans + more sponsors = more money.

More money = more success?

 

[March Hare]

Well, this morning I signed up for the first time. Just a 3 game, plus the pack with scarf, cap, T-shirt (needed a new scarf especially).

I'm an MCC Member, so in the past it has cost a bit too much to have both but our family is doing OK at the moment and the 80 bucks is basically the cost of attending 3 or 4 games at Etihad anyway.

I'm posting this not to big note myself... sincerely - the passion I have seen for our club since joining Big Footy (I'm being serious here) has actually inspired me to get off my arse and become a REAL supporter!

GO THE MIGHTY SAINTS IN 2012!

 

[StFly]

Dear Daniel,

Thank you for deciding to Be the Future of the St Kilda Football Club by being a Member in 2012.

Your 2012 Saints Member Pack including your 2012 membership card has been dispatched and you can expect delivery within the next 14 days.

Today & tomorrow and then they lie, lie I tell you, for I have not received my card and Joey is forever missing a side of his face! But yeah, would have reserved a L3 seat if I were financial, am simply not so stuck with GA.

 

[SuburbanMe]

not a Saints fan, but Had to point something out. The whole Frankston debacle hasn't helped the saints. Also, don't forget the Seaford base you lot now have. That would surely have to add to the loss. Don't fear guys. I'm an Old Fitzroy supporter, if anyone knows what it is like to follow a team in debt, I do. You have a strong supporter base (even if they are almost as bad as Those broady rats, and the punt road ferals) hahaha j/k.

Also, the Saints got royally screwed last season by Lyon. Never mind the photo thing - those boys did that to themselves, suck it up and move on - and concentrate on field (to the players) - atleast you pissed off Lovett.

2012 is a new season. you'll get a heap of members (hehehe members), you have a strong following, and seaford will pay itself off too. I doubt you'll see alot of success this year - probably around where I see my boys - 6th or 7th - but that happens when you go through a bit of a change up like you have.

Keep your chins up, it'll work out!

PS - Ross Lyon is a dog.

 

[hayes]

Ross did what was right for himself and his family so I can't blame him too much, of course going behind the clubs back probably isn't the right thing to do but to be honest I was sick of watching this team struggle to score with all the talent we had which made us an ugly team to watch. If we can show some sort of free flowing football that will get more people through the gates and membership will go up.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

Well, this morning I signed up for the first time. Just a 3 game, plus the pack with scarf, cap, T-shirt (needed a new scarf especially).

I'm an MCC Member, so in the past it has cost a bit too much to have both but our family is doing OK at the moment and the 80 bucks is basically the cost of attending 3 or 4 games at Etihad anyway.

I'm posting this not to big note myself... sincerely - the passion I have seen for our club since joining Big Footy (I'm being serious here) has actually inspired me to get off my arse and become a REAL supporter!

GO THE MIGHTY SAINTS IN 2012!

^^ This guy is a bloody legend! What more can I say.

You know it might be easy to say. Well, it's because we got shafted by Etihad or the Seaford move cost us. The fact of the matter is. That despite finishing on top of the ladder in 09 and going to 3 Grand Finals in the last 3 years, even before the above events and even with 40,000 Members, we still made a financial loss last season! That's the bottom line. And if you try and sugar coat it, you can just stick your head back in the sand.
Don't let memberships drop off. Invest in the future of this proud club! The club has invested heavily into footy dep spending this year. How can we sustain these types of costs as a club to remain competitive with the big clubs if we don't have a strong financial base thats primarily derived from increased membership and sponsorship.
Every little bit of support helps the club get better and get more successful and survive.

 

[StFly]

Ross did what was right for himself and his family so I can't blame him too much, of course going behind the clubs back probably isn't the right thing to do but to be honest I was sick of watching this team struggle to score with all the talent we had which made us an ugly team to watch. If we can show some sort of free flowing football that will get more people through the gates and membership will go up.

Sorry, but I vehemently dislike this opinion.

This short term will largely make or break the next decade at the club for you have individuals who should be reacting instinctively, as they will be given the release and the freedom under GT with the defensive structures of RL that were the cornerstone of the current incarnation of contested situations. Rock paper scissors only instead you're using Hot cold and warm for extremes and mediums.

You can always be too hot and attack too much that you forget defense.
You can always be too cold and defend too harshly that you forget about offense.

The players brought up under both frankly shouldn't forget, should have it as a base and should expand upon it to adapt both as the situation dictates.

It was utterly brilliant to see a team so focused on the single desire to covet that ball or make life utter hell for the individual with it because they placed absolute trust in any friendly bloke next to them that they would give 110% on that exact same cause. This is the same whether it's on offense or defense, if you're looking for high scores go to a damned arcade, because AFL is like an evolved chess,and you see the good players are also the smartest on the field.

 

[hayes]

Sorry, but I vehemently dislike this opinion.

This short term will largely make or break the next decade at the club for you have individuals who should be reacting instinctively, as they will be given the release and the freedom under GT with the defensive structures of RL that were the cornerstone of the current incarnation of contested situations. Rock paper scissors only instead you're using Hot cold and warm for extremes and mediums.

You can always be too hot and attack too much that you forget defense.
You can always be too cold and defend too harshly that you forget about offense.

The players brought up under both frankly shouldn't forget, should have it as a base and should expand upon it to adapt both as the situation dictates.

It was utterly brilliant to see a team so focused on the single desire to covet that ball or make life utter hell for the individual with it because they placed absolute trust in any friendly bloke next to them that they would give 110% on that exact same cause. This is the same whether it's on offense or defense, if you're looking for high scores go to a damned arcade, because AFL is like an evolved chess,and you see the good players are also the smartest on the field.

I liked those things too. I used to love in '09 when we used to keeps teams to scoreless quarters, the difference back then was we were actually putting a score on the board as well (until the finals). But too often we would go into panic mode if a team was coming back (and they always had a chance because we'd keep them in it) and sometimes even if they weren't. Nobody liked watching us play, even a of the supporters.

I'm not asking for an arcade style gameplan, I'm asking for a more balanced one. The top sides do both things well. We never really found the balance but I'm confident Watters will.

How much longer do people think we can go on at Etihad with figures like that? I know people might like where they sit but is a seat more important than the stability of our club?

 

[The Punter]

For all and sundry to read, please commit to memory so I don't have to say it again:

Regardless of the actions of Sam Gilbert, Nick Riewoldt, Nick Dal Santo and Zac Dawson, the photos would not have become public had a crime not have been committed. The person to blame for the photos being publicly released is the person who obtained them through the crime of stealing.

Oh, and I think Ian Collins goes further than Seaford on his holidays. Surely he would have a holiday home in Portsea with all that Etihad money?

 

[sauce_head]

I am pretty disgusted at this result. The current board, Footy First, whatever that mean, have gambled with out club. I said at the time that short term gain was no substitute for financial stability. Now we have had one of the most successful periods in our history and we are in this dire position. The ego this board brings is astounding. Not only did they bundle out a proper president who managed finances, rather than immature dreams, they ousted him via a media campaign based on suggested personal life behind closed doors, that had nothing to do with performance.

Ironic in the extreme that they are now blaming exposure of behind the scenes photos, partially, for our loss, when it was their dire management of the situation that made it into a crisis. Second that with signing a player whose personal life ended in being sacked by the club due to obvious character flaws. Where is the consistency? Hidden behind a thin veneer of putting footy first when really installing their egos at the helm whist taking risky short term bets at the expense of the member - our own banking crisis.

So I urge you to sign up dear tax payer, erm Saints supporter. I have, again, as a social club member. But like any tax payer, demand accountability from your footy team administration. I predicted years ago they may lead us here, and it disgusts me to find I was right.

Go Saints - club first, not past players egos.

 

[Farren2Jarryn]

Originally posted by The Punter

For all and sundry to read, please commit to memory so I don't have to say it again:

Regardless of the actions of Sam Gilbert, Nick Riewoldt, Nick Dal Santo and Zac Dawson, the photos would not have become public had a crime not have been committed. The person to blame for the photos being publicly released is the person who obtained them through the crime of stealing.


Thanks Punter I hear you loud and clear, I agree completely, stealing is a crime

 

[sauce_head]

Originally posted by The Punter

For all and sundry to read, please commit to memory so I don't have to say it again:

Regardless of the actions of Sam Gilbert, Nick Riewoldt, Nick Dal Santo and Zac Dawson, the photos would not have become public had a crime not have been committed. The person to blame for the photos being publicly released is the person who obtained them through the crime of stealing.


Thanks Punter I hear you loud and clear, I agree completely, stealing is a crime

As much ad I respect Punter; I hope both of you have never reproduced music files or photos without permission - crime. Let's face it, it was naive to keep the photos on a computer with somebody around who could take them. We all know some stupid people who are more offensive than everyday partakers in modern society, I mean free information takers. Let's focus on The support network the club put it place to manage the situation.

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<tumbleweed>

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[The Punter]

I'm not being naive. I just think all the blame goes onto the players. If the players in the photos are to be believed, the photos were taken without their permission, and their deletion was apparently assured to them by Sam Gilbert.

Gilbert didn't do that and then was an idiot for getting involved with that girl. He is clearly at fault. But without them being stolen, they still don't make it into the public domain. And if I do share music files on the internet, I'm not humiliating them publicly or damaging their reputation.

Her actions seem to go without criticism, probably because the media outlets don't want her to rip them off the teet. They've published a lot of her crap, and much of it shouldn't have been published as it was damaging to reputations and in some cases clearly libellous. But AFL clubs and footballers avoid courts like Travis Johnstone avoiding the contested ball.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

As much ad I respect Punter; I hope both of you have never reproduced music files or photos without permission - crime. Let's face it, it was naive to keep the photos on a computer with somebody around who could take them. We all know some stupid people who are more offensive than everyday partakers in modern society, I mean free information takers. Let's focus on The support network the club put it place to manage the situation.

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<tumbleweed>

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Firstly, magnificent OP Flying. Brilliant passion.

Sauce, not sure what you expected the club to do differently at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think it's a cop out for members to blame that situation for not sticking by the club.

The operating loss is quite significant. Think about it from the club's perspective. We play very well at Etihad and recently pretty ordinary at the G. Now, 2011 showed us that if results are down, so are crowds. So how can the club think of moving to the G, meaning we'd probably be at least 8 premiership points worse off and still expect to turn a profit with crowds dropping off.

FS is also dead right in regards to the Player Sponsorship. The reason I initially looked to get us involved is to help out the club financially and give us a chance to get something back.

The Etihad deal is very poor. If we had the success we did in 2009/10 and played most of our games at the G, our profit would be have closer to the $3 million mark rather than $1.5. Would we have been as successful if that were the case though?

 

[StFly]

I liked those things too. I used to love in '09 when we used to keeps teams to scoreless quarters, the difference back then was we were actually putting a score on the board as well (until the finals). But too often we would go into panic mode if a team was coming back (and they always had a chance because we'd keep them in it) and sometimes even if they weren't. Nobody liked watching us play, even a of the supporters.

This was a failing of the coaching "style" as has been the case during the tenure for people asking why the offense was rather impotent / purposely problematic. Ie Eddy starting CHF two weeks, one week kicking from outside 50 and looking very dangerous as a target, the next being int he same position and turning it over spotting up 20m in front in a congested forward line. This is a criticism of one aspect of coaching, we'd still be a boring s**t defensive side if we averaged and extra 4 goals a game simply because the overall style was negating as far as the public was concerned.

I'm not asking for an arcade style gameplan, I'm asking for a more balanced one. The top sides do both things well. We never really found the balance but I'm confident Watters will.

Indeed, I just do not think we had the right layers to be balanced. Yes you have guys like Hayes and Goddard who bust a nut both ways, but Dal had issues with tagging before RL came along, as did Joey, Blakes role was undefined and so on so forth, they needed the defensive impetus to progress their footy and should be greater for it. I see us like a simple math equation, we've gone though the "problem" and are now at the precipice of a "solution".

How much longer do people think we can go on at Etihad with figures like that? I know people might like where they sit but is a seat more important than the stability of our club?

Collo has used rather sneaky wording for mine, the overall attendance figures haven't been that much down when you look at those sorts of numbers (10's of thousands) yet you'd have to think that in contracts there'd be X staff and Y overhead for Z capacity that would bump up costs. As an EG, the game v Freo that drew rather poorly, was there a reason to open all of level 1 and 3 and staff all of level 1 & 3 whilst of course staffing restricted areas? Of course not, they could have shut off the pockets, near the scoreboards, restricted view areas, closed sections, yet they did not. I could walk all the way around level 3 and sit in any seat not reserved and I would be met with an attendant at every single entrance even if there were only 100 people there.

Does it really matter if instead of row F they are in row A because reserved seat holders didn't show up? Not really, but they staffed it anyway just in case and increased overheads doing it.

They're both causing the losses, yet Collo seems to be of the opinion that Etihad is not attributing at all or not a primary part in any event.

As it is, 13 years and he's out on his arse, so for the life of the club this will end up being a blip on the road to AFL ownership and a consolidation of assets.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I am pretty disgusted at this result. The current board, Footy First, whatever that mean, have gambled with out club. I said at the time that short term gain was no substitute for financial stability. Now we have had one of the most successful periods in our history and we are in this dire position. The ego this board brings is astounding. Not only did they bundle out a proper president who managed finances, rather than immature dreams, they ousted him via a media campaign based on suggested personal life behind closed doors, that had nothing to do with performance.

Ironic in the extreme that they are now blaming exposure of behind the scenes photos, partially, for our loss, when it was their dire management of the situation that made it into a crisis. Second that with signing a player whose personal life ended in being sacked by the club due to obvious character flaws. Where is the consistency? Hidden behind a thin veneer of putting footy first when really installing their egos at the helm whist taking risky short term bets at the expense of the member - our own banking crisis.

So I urge you to sign up dear tax payer, erm Saints supporter. I have, again, as a social club member. But like any tax payer, demand accountability from your footy team administration. I predicted years ago they may lead us here, and it disgusts me to find I was right.

Go Saints - club first, not past players egos.

Are you kidding.
Butterss kept a lid on expenses by the simple equation Football department = Grant Thomas.

"Footy First" referred to the additional focus on the football first and foremost. Their goal was to increase spending on the football department and to increase revenue to cover it. One of the first things they did was appoint Matthew Drain to try to stop the incredible run of injury our players were experiencing. Most recently I'm happy with the appointment of Pelchen.

They have been in place for five years now.
A single year's result isn't going to make a huge difference in the overall scheme of things, especially when they have financed the Seaford facility.

Things to remember:
Legal costs should be down in 2012. ( knock on wood ).
Coach Salary's should be less than 2011.
Player Salary's will be reduced from 2011.
The AFL's new compensation for Etihad tenants will kick in during 2012.
They wont need to finance a new training facility in 2012.
They will be aiming to sell more murchandise in 2012 ( note the deletion of scarfe from the members packs to try to get memebers to spend an additional 20 bucks for T shirt /hat/Scarfe : this could easily raise $100K ).

Where have they blamed anything on the photographs. I've only seen where certain newspapers have "speculated". However its possible ( I dont know ) that it could have influenced Jeld Wen's pulling out.

 

[hayes]

^^A single years result? We made consecutive grand finals and we barely made a dollar.

 

[stkildathunda]

^^A single years result? We made consecutive grand finals and we barely made a dollar.

$1.7M is barely a dollar Thats our profit from last year. 2009 was $1.1M.

This is from the 2009 Annual Report

"During the year, the AFL and key Victorian Clubs successfully negotiated a more equitable deal and a better return for tenant Clubs at Etihad Stadium.
As a result, Clubs will now share an extra $5.5 million per year in income. This will provide our Club with a significant financial benefit in 2010 and beyond."

Now they got that, plus extra money last year yet still have now financial benefit. Please what the hell are they doing with the money.. Where was the forward planning with the business plan? Seems to me like the relied on us going deep into September again...

 

[The Punter]

From what I hear, the money is going into the football department.

How many coaches do we have this year?

 

[sauce_head]

Bit annoying that on this board sometimes being passionate about anything but the status quo is seen as negative. I am as passionate as they come for StKilda, being a full social club member living overseas.

The club is bigger than the current board and their, like anybody else's, performance must he criticised. In my opinion the performance has shown short-term gain at the possible expense of long term gain. I don't want to be rattling tins again.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Bit annoying that on this board sometimes being passionate about anything but the status quo is seen as negative. I am as passionate as they come for StKilda, being a full social club member living overseas.

The club is bigger than the current board and their, like anybody else's, performance must he criticised. In my opinion the performance has shown short-term gain at the possible expense of long term gain. I don't want to be rattling tins again.

I see what you are saying.
But I just think the primary reason for an AFL club is not to make money.
They need to spend everything they get on football.
If they went year after year at a loss, I'd have an issue, but this board has posted a profit most years so I'm happy enough.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Q. Why did we make a big loss?
A. Because revenue was down, and expenses have gone up?

Q. Why was revenue down?
A. Partly because of off field issues, a dour game plan, poor form from established stars, a terrible stadium deal, and moving to an elite facility.

Q. What caused the off field issues, dour game plan, and poor form from established stars.
A. A COACH (not a board) with a fixation on the "now" during 09'10, burning out our players, forcing a dour game plan (that admittedly worked, but was pretty hard to maintain long term), and a "Bubble" that meant inevitably players would let off steam, and a media would get so frustrated at our silence they'd be there to make the worst of it when the players played up. Oh, and who showed no future plans for the sustainability of our player-list into the future.

Q. Hmm, so how do we solve the player issues?
A. We invest money (ie raise expenses) to get more coaches, and develop a player academy. We get rid of the old coach with a CLEAR lack of skills in developing youth (he left, but hey, win for us). We invest money (ie raise expenses) to give them better training facilities - oh wait, already done that, so don't need to again. And we burst the bubble, taking pressure off the players, and restoring a healthy relationship with the media.

Q. Did the Bubble affect our finances in any other ways?
A. Yes it did. The Bubble isolated the players from the fans, as was clearly evidenced by the 2010 AGM. Instead, the club will organise more regular open training, including even at Moorabbin to restore relationships with the Old-Faithful. We'll even give the kids a footy clinic for free.

Q. So how will we make money in the future?
A. By restoring our relationship with fans, while developing stronger fan bases in one of the fastest growing areas in Melbourne - wait, that's now done. By investing the money necessary in the short term, to find, recruit, train, mentor, and develop the next generation of successful players - wait, we're already starting to do that.

We are spending the money necessary in the short term, to keep us sustainable - both on the field (with new players) and off the field (with memberships, and thus sponsorships) in the long term.