Injury Ankle Surgery for Jamie Elliott

[DuckToaster]

Ok just an update, apparantly there were severe complications with the surgery, Dr Nick Riviera said he thought the requested surgery was for amputation above the ankle and only found out the real reason for the surgery after it was too late, Dr Nick also removed the wrong ankle.

Although clearly a setback, the Collingwood football club said they expected Jamie to make a full recovery and to be back in full training once his foot grows back, hopefully around February.

Well, if it isn't my old friend, Mr. McGreg! With a leg for an arm, and an arm for a leg!

 

[BigCharlie]

So they are culpable for not knowing the Elliot's injury would not respond to rest ? That makes no sense, unless you believe they have a crystal ball.

They would have had scans that showed the amount of damage and where it was. They would have an evidence base on how to proceed, along with clinical experience. They would have been able to load the injured part in varying ways and assessed his response both immediately and after time.

How do you know they didn't settle on this option after reviewing ALL alternative methods?

They obviously could have. However, he has been able to complete less than a handful of training sessions - if that - before succumbing and requiring surgery. Which suggests that the reasons for going the route they have is more likely incorrect than correct.

Either that, or elliott hasn't been adhering to the advice he was given.

It that case so does every club, because our injuries and approach to them are not out of the ordinary.

How would you know?

 

[DraftBalta]

Ok just an update, apparantly there were severe complications with the surgery, Dr Nick Riviera said he thought the requested surgery was for amputation above the ankle and only found out the real reason for the surgery after it was too late, Dr Nick also removed the wrong ankle.

Although clearly a setback, the Collingwood football club said they expected Jamie to make a full recovery and to be back in full training once his foot grows back, hopefully around February.

He should have a couple of beers while he's waiting

 

[jmac70]

He should have a couple of beers while he's waiting

He could drink beer whilst icing his ankle.

Win win!

 

[Kirby]

Just in case anyone cares, Eddie said on radio this morning that it is one of the most frustrating things when doctors say that a player should rest an injury rather than going in for surgery, only to find out weeks later that the injury hasn't come up. He went on to say that the conservative approach that doctors take is often a wise one and that surgery should be a last resort.

He seemed to be as frustrated as the rest of us.

 

[Kilmo]

Just in case anyone cares, Eddie said on radio this morning that it is one of the most frustrating things when doctors say that a player should rest an injury rather than going in for surgery, only to find out weeks later that the injury hasn't come up. He went on to say that the conservative approach that doctors take is often a wise one and that surgery should be a last resort.

He seemed to be as frustrated as the rest of us.

Did he mention anything about the sky falling

 

[Anzacday]

Did he mention anything about the sky falling

Didn't say much more.
Did play this though...

 

[Hardas]

Did he mention anything about the sky falling

You mean like our ladder positions for the last four years?

 

[Collingwoodity]

Are you taking the piss?

Oh wait.

Underrated.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Collingwood Director of Football, Geoff Walsh, explained that further rest was unlikely to allow the 25 year-old two-time Gordon Coventry Award winner to properly prepare for the 2018 season.

“The injury was one Jamie played with late this year. The recommendation post-season was that with a spell from the rigours of playing and training the ankle would heal. Unfortunately the healing process has been slower than expected and surgery is now appropriate,” Walsh said.

“We’re expecting to have Jamie back into the full training program by late January.”

From the cfc website.

I really don't see an issue with (after the medico's advice), that rest didn't heal the ankle as good as they thought it would, that now he goes in for surgery.

No biggie.

No problem with initially waiting for it to heal with rest over a 4-6 week period.

However:

1. It has been known since late in the season (say mid August) and it is now mid November. That is 3 months - more than enough time to assess whether rest would heal the ankle.
2. Worse than that is this new age bs speak "the healing process has been slower than expected and surgery is now appropriate". Slower than expected?...resting either worked or it did not. The speed at which the healing process travelled is a furphy. If rest did not work then say that it did not and that surgery is required. Don't massage us as collective dummies. We are dumb but not that dumb.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Do you realise a surgeon made the decision?

Do you hold the club responsible for its selection of specialist consultants?

 

[DraftBalta]

He could drink beer whilst icing his ankle.

Win win!

I doubt he set his clock for ever hour of sleep to wake up and ice like Maxy used to... think some of that ice ended up in his drink

 

[CFC2010]

I doubt he set his clock for ever hour of sleep to wake up and ice like Maxy used to... think some of that ice ended up in his drink

Not cool DB please delete.

 

[DraftBalta]

Not cool DB please delete.

Oh **** I didn't even think of that, it's an alcohol on the rocks reference, not what you are thinking

Dude where is your mind at

 

[jmac70]

Do you hold the club responsible for its selection of specialist consultants?

No

 

[jackcass]

Do you hold the club responsible for its selection of specialist consultants?

You do realise that there are likely only a very short list of specialist surgeons that most Vic based clubs would use don't you? Even some of the interstate clubs fly in to use them. Hard to imagine any of them would recommend surgery when presented with a case we can only assume looked like it would heal with rest. Happy for you to think otherwise.

 

[Quicky]

Interesting interview with Jamie on episode 4 of the Grind.

He reckons he's in the boot for another 1-2 weeks. He'll be doing running 2-3 weeks after that. So running by somewhere between the 2nd and 4th week of January. That should put him in a good position to get his fitness right for the start of the season. I reckon he'll be right.

He also mentioned the decision to get surgery came following a 2nd scan and 3rd opinion. He could have probably played with it for years at 80-85% but that he was keen to get back to 100%.

It has me pretty positive.

Also Fas was still smashing out some running, not sure if before his injury or not. He was in his speedos to cut back on the chaffing hahahaha. Classic Fas!

 

[grayza2018]

I don't think Fas has had his op yet. Should be able to keep relatively fit though since he'll be on his feet still

 

[Kappa]

Interesting interview with Jamie on episode 4 of the Grind.

He reckons he's in the boot for another 1-2 weeks. He'll be doing running 2-3 weeks after that. So running by somewhere between the 2nd and 4th week of January. That should put him in a good position to get his fitness right for the start of the season. I reckon he'll be right.

He also mentioned the decision to get surgery came following a 2nd scan and 3rd opinion. He could have probably played with it for years at 80-85% but that he was keen to get back to 100%.

It has me pretty positive.

Also Fas was still smashing out some running, not sure if before his injury or not. He was in his speedos to cut back on the chaffing hahahaha. Classic Fas!

Based on what he said he will begin running for the 1st time in a while late January, which leaves him a little under 8 weeks until round 1. I mean, he should be available, but his fitness will be far behind the pack.

 

[Scodog10]

Just in case anyone cares, Eddie said on radio this morning that it is one of the most frustrating things when doctors say that a player should rest an injury rather than going in for surgery, only to find out weeks later that the injury hasn't come up. He went on to say that the conservative approach that doctors take is often a wise one and that surgery should be a last resort.

He seemed to be as frustrated as the rest of us.

It’s an interesting standpoint. I’m not going to argue for or against the merits of the conservative approach other than to say that whenever we do choose it anecdotally the player winds up having surgery anyway. That’s the source of frustration for me!

My question for Jamie and the club would be was 10 weeks rest really necessary? How difficult would it have been to get back to the club toward the end of October to test the ankle. If it came up happy days we see you in a fortnight and if it hadn’t after 8 weeks rest so be it in for surgery he goes. What could we possibly gain from 10 weeks that we couldn’t decipher from 8? Especially when at the time Jamie was living it up at the races so we wouldn’t have exactly been interrupting an important escape!

That’s the gap in professionalism between us and the best. We now have one of our 3-5 most important players playing catch up to be fit for round 1 and if we’d have been only marginally more proactive with it he’d be able to get an extra two weeks lead time into the season. That limited preparation likely leaves him lacking the touch you’d want in his first few games and could also leave him more exposed to soft tissue injuries if we load him up with a focus on round 1.

 

[BigCharlie]

He went on to say that the conservative approach that doctors take is often a wise one and that surgery should be a last resort.

It’s an interesting standpoint. I’m not going to argue for or against the merits of the conservative approach other than to say that whenever we do choose it anecdotally the player winds up having surgery anyway. That’s the source of frustration for me!

The conservative approach is only a wise one if the evidence clearly shows superior outcomes to surgery.

If not, clinical experience has to come into the equation. Most research evidence is going to be based on a controlled clinical trial, so it isn't always relevant, or at least has less relevance in certain situations. On what basis are they deciding that the conservative approach will be the more effective outcome?

The downside to the conservative approach that ends in surgery anyway is often more invasive and/or difficult surgery, longer recuperation outcomes, potential further deterioration in the kinetic chain that needs to be fully addressed, greater loss of strength and ROM and thus the potential for further injury.

 

[frizzle]

I'm sure on the latest episode of the grind, Elliott said they got a 3rd opinion & went the surgery option.
Wish they spoke to that particular chap earlier in the piece.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Well, if it isn't my old friend, Mr. McGreg! With a leg for an arm, and an arm for a leg!

probably my all time fav simpsons line

 

[jackcass]

It’s an interesting standpoint. I’m not going to argue for or against the merits of the conservative approach other than to say that whenever we do choose it anecdotally the player winds up having surgery anyway. That’s the source of frustration for me!

My question for Jamie and the club would be was 10 weeks rest really necessary? How difficult would it have been to get back to the club toward the end of October to test the ankle. If it came up happy days we see you in a fortnight and if it hadn’t after 8 weeks rest so be it in for surgery he goes. What could we possibly gain from 10 weeks that we couldn’t decipher from 8? Especially when at the time Jamie was living it up at the races so we wouldn’t have exactly been interrupting an important escape!

That’s the gap in professionalism between us and the best. We now have one of our 3-5 most important players playing catch up to be fit for round 1 and if we’d have been only marginally more proactive with it he’d be able to get an extra two weeks lead time into the season. That limited preparation likely leaves him lacking the touch you’d want in his first few games and could also leave him more exposed to soft tissue injuries if we load him up with a focus on round 1.

In what % of cases? Or are you referring to the occasional case when it does take that course and assuming that they're the sum total of all cases where rest is prescribed?

 

[4#Didak#4]

Good decision in the end. This had dale thomas all over it. Jamie could have pushed through like daisy did and not be 100% for a long time but we all know how that ended. Daisy didn't want to give up his surf trip and then after that thought an op would limit his contract negotiations. The price he paid was steep. It would have been a hard decision after all billys injuries but its the right one.