USA AOC, Bernie Sanders and Zohran Mamdani. The need for strong progressive voices in US politics.

[CM86]

You are clueless

My views are those of genuine socialism, genuine opposition to capitalism.

a) I have always made it clear that i oppose Putin just like I oppose Zelensky.

Right, but you don't make it clear that you oppose Trump like you oppose Mamdani. Crazy right?
You're so active in specific ways, and so voiceless in others.

b) I attack the "fake left", and a moment ago you just said they were a cancer on society.
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes...

Wait, did you copy/past my post into grok or some shit? I made the statement as a lead in to my view of you and your positions.

"As in you'd argue against vaccination as Government overreach, while supporting the forced removal of children from Ukraine by the invading force."

What rubbish.

What is your evidence for such defamatory claims? Please produce it, while i get out my popcorn.

What socialist Government system would force masks, travel restrictions and vaccinations on people who refuse to accept them??
Do you even know what socialism is? Don't link me something... can you actually state what you believe socialism is and why you support it??

 

[IlovethePies]

Right, but you don't make it clear that you oppose Trump like you oppose Mamdani. Crazy right?
You're so active in specific ways, and so voiceless in others.

If you don't read my posts consistently, then you shouldn't make such sweeping claims. Because they will be false. I have expressed my hatred and contempt for Trump many, many times here. But Trump can only do what he does because of the role of the Democrats and the fake left. Therefore, I direct alot of my criticism against the fake left because most people are clear about the destructive role of Trump, but are not so clear about the equally pernicious role of the Democrats and the fake left who fundamentally allow Trump to stay in power.

Yes...

Wait, did you copy/past my post into grok or some shit? I made the statement as a lead in to my view of you and your positions.

Don't know wtf you are talking about here

What socialist Government system would force masks, travel restrictions and vaccinations on people who refuse to accept them??
Do you even know what socialism is? Don't link me something... can you actually state what you believe socialism is and why you support it??

What does socialism mean? Socialism has never existed. There is no such thing as socialism in one country. Therefore it has never existed, anywhere. Socialism means a world planned economy. It means the abolition of all nations and the harmonious collaboration between the working population throughout the world carried out through a world planned workers' government.

All your concepts about socialism are completely wrong. You somehow think that governments presiding over a single national economy are socialist. This is totally false.

The only way that socialism can be established is when the working class organises as an independent political force internationally and overthrows every single capitalist government.

It would mean for the first time in world history that the vast majority of the world's population decides how the productive capabilities and wealth of society should be distributed.

 

[CM86]

If you don't read my posts consistently, then you shouldn't make such sweeping claims. Because they will be false. I have expressed my hatred and contempt for Trump many, many times here. But Trump can only do what he does because of the role of the Democrats and the fake left. Therefore, I direct alot of my criticism against the fake left because most people are clear about the destructive role of Trump, but are not so clear about the equally pernicious role of the Democrats and the fake left who fundamentally allow Trump to stay in power.

Right... And what is the only main democratic opposition to Trump?

What does socialism mean? Socialism has never existed. There is no such thing as socialism in one country. Therefore it has never existed, anywhere. Socialism means a world planned economy. It means the abolition of all nations and the harmonious collaboration between the working population throughout the world carried out through a world planned workers' government.

All your concepts about socialism are completely wrong. You somehow think that governments presiding over a single national economy are socialist. This is totally false.

The only way that socialism can be established is when the working class organises as an independent political force internationally and overthrows every single capitalist government.

It would mean for the first time in world history that the vast majority of the world's population decides how the productive capabilities and wealth of society should be distributed.

So you don't know what Socialism is?

 

[IlovethePies]

Right... And what is the only main democratic opposition to Trump?


So you don't know what Socialism is?

Yes I do.
But you don't.
End of discussion.

 

[CM86]

Yes I do.
But you don't.
End of discussion.

You write paragraphs, days on end, to attack some of the most progressive members of any parliament.
But you can't spend any time explaining your understanding of Socialism?

You're 'fake left'.

Socialism has never existed.

Socialism has existed since its conception.
Enactment is not the same as existing.

How can you support an ideology that has never existed?

 

[sdfc]

If you don't read my posts consistently, then you shouldn't make such sweeping claims. Because they will be false. I have expressed my hatred and contempt for Trump many, many times here. But Trump can only do what he does because of the role of the Democrats and the fake left. Therefore, I direct alot of my criticism against the fake left because most people are clear about the destructive role of Trump, but are not so clear about the equally pernicious role of the Democrats and the fake left who fundamentally allow Trump to stay in power.

Don't know wtf you are talking about here

What does socialism mean? Socialism has never existed. There is no such thing as socialism in one country. Therefore it has never existed, anywhere. Socialism means a world planned economy. It means the abolition of all nations and the harmonious collaboration between the working population throughout the world carried out through a world planned workers' government.

All your concepts about socialism are completely wrong. You somehow think that governments presiding over a single national economy are socialist. This is totally false.

The only way that socialism can be established is when the working class organises as an independent political force internationally and overthrows every single capitalist government.

It would mean for the first time in world history that the vast majority of the world's population decides how the productive capabilities and wealth of society should be distributed.

Your global "socialist" system is more likely to be run by investment funds and billionaires than workers groups.

 

[IlovethePies]

Your global "socialist" system is more likely to be run by investment funds and billionaires than workers groups.

you're not understanding what I am saying.
The working class has to take political power and abolish the capitalist state.
Like what happened in Russia in 1917.
But on a world scale.

 

[sdfc]

you're not understanding what I am saying.
The working class has to take political power and abolish the capitalist state.
Like what happened in Russia in 1917.
But on a world scale.

Pardon?

 

[sdfc]

you're not understanding what I am saying.
The working class has to take political power and abolish the capitalist state.
Like what happened in Russia in 1917.
But on a world scale.

Have you any idea of what happened between 1917 and 1953?

 

[IlovethePies]

Have you any idea of what happened between 1917 and 1953?

Yeah, absolutely.

the Stalinist bureaucracy seized power in the Soviet Union from about 1924 onwards.
Stalin died in 1953, but this made no difference because Stalin represented a privileged bureaucracy which remained in power.
More to the point, I will ask you a question.
Do you have any idea what happened in 1991?

If you want to continue, pm me as this is way off topic.

 

[Chief]

So don't you think that Mamdani has betrayed all those who voted for him by giving Trump exactly what he wanted, ie some kind of reflected glory??View attachment 2485050

Nah. He got to frame it in his own terms. He got Trump to admit Mamdani's ideas were good.

 

[sdfc]

Yeah, absolutely.

the Stalinist bureaucracy seized power in the Soviet Union from about 1924 onwards.
Stalin died in 1953, but this made no difference because Stalin represented a privileged bureaucracy which remained in power.
More to the point, I will ask you a question.
Do you have any idea what happened in 1991?

If you want to continue, pm me as this is way off topic.

That's ok. I can't be fkd PMing you. Nothing personal. I'm lazy.

Maybe on another thread sometime.

 

[sdfc]

Yeah, absolutely.

the Stalinist bureaucracy seized power in the Soviet Union from about 1924 onwards.
Stalin died in 1953, but this made no difference because Stalin represented a privileged bureaucracy which remained in power.
More to the point, I will ask you a question.
Do you have any idea what happened in 1991?

If you want to continue, pm me as this is way off topic.

By the way I can recommend, Stalin The Court of the Red Tsar. Put a human face to Stalin. Unlike Hitler, someone you'd probably have a drink with if it wasn't for all the murders.

 

[IlovethePies]

By the way I can recommend, Stalin The Court of the Red Tsar. Put a human face to Stalin. Unlike Hitler, someone you'd probably have a drink with if it wasn't for all the murders.

wow...you're a fw. Dont bother to pm, ever.

 

[sdfc]

wow...you're a fw. Dont bother to pm, ever.

ok

 

[Not Important]

and she does not see lobbyists - full stop. oh, if only there were more like her. and just to set straight the grok attempt to spread misinformation.

No, AOC is not worth millions of dollars

In 2023, AOC owned up to $46,000 in assets — and had at least $15,000 in student loan debt — her latest disclosure said. She makes $174,000 a year.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Not Important]

ok

now there's a plus.

 

[IlovethePies]

now there's a plus.

Anything you say is Not Important.

 

[Cyg1992]

and he's no progressive. in many respects, he's a corporate democrat.

The tony abbott style short circuit he had when AIPAC was mentioned said it all.

 

[Crankyhawk]

you're not understanding what I am saying.
The working class has to take political power and abolish the capitalist state.
Like what happened in Russia in 1917.
But on a world scale.

not going to happen in your lifetime
and why some may think of you as trump supporter is that your condemnation of trump is little different to your condemnation of the democrats (ie the only likely meaningful opposition in the US political system)
you might as well check out of the thread as your view is of an alien morality to the USA system

 

[Not Important]

Anything you say is Not Important to me.

efa

 

[Not Important]

not so sure those figures a spot on, but medical debt in the u.s is a disgrace in a comparatively wealthy country.

Insurance Won't Save You: 56% of Insured Americans Have Medical Debt

100 million Americans owe $220 billion in medical debt. Even with insurance, one accident can destroy everything. But churches are erasing millions in debt for pennies on the dollar. Learn how communities are fighting back.

www.americanhumanrightsinitiativefoundation.org

 

[faible]

Ilovethepies lives in fantasy land.

He'd rather an ideological utopia that never exists in the real world and achieves nothing than support a flawed outcome.

Too many on the left demand this ideological purity, and end up helping the right-wing and people like Trump in to power because they'd rather theoretical and perfection over realistic and pragmatic.

Mamdani managed to get Trump to actually call himself a fascist in front of global media and support Mamdani's policy goals in front of the same media.

But that's not enough. Apparently Mamdani should have refused to even talk to POTUS and instead be leading some kind of global uprising by the citizens of the world against their militaries. I eagerly await the military campaign launched by the residents of NYC against the US military and the deaths of tens of thousands all in the name of Ilovepies ideological purity.

 

[IlovethePies]

Ilovethepies lives in fantasy land.

He'd rather an ideological utopia that never exists in the real world and achieves nothing than support a flawed outcome.

Too many on the left demand this ideological purity, and end up helping the right-wing and people like Trump in to power because they'd rather theoretical and perfection over realistic and pragmatic.

Mamdani managed to get Trump to actually call himself a fascist in front of global media and support Mamdani's policy goals in front of the same media.

But that's not enough. Apparently Mamdani should have refused to even talk to POTUS and instead be leading some kind of global uprising by the citizens of the world against their militaries. I eagerly await the military campaign launched by the residents of NYC against the US military and the deaths of tens of thousands all in the name of Ilovepies ideological purity.

One of the most ridiculous posts ever.

So you think Mamdani won by getting Trump to admit he's a fascist!!

Trump absolutely destroyed Mamdani in this exchange. Even though Mamdani is clear that Trump is a fascist, he continues to collaborate with him. What does this say?

It says that Mamdani doesn't think fascism is actually too bad. At any rate, he can do deals with fascists and even shares common visions with them! It gives Trump a massive propaganda coup.

At the same time, it confuses all those who voted for Mamdani, thinking that he would genuinely oppose Trump and the fascists in his government.

As I type this, I kind of feel like im writing a comedy script. You know, one where Hitler stands next to some guy like Mamdani who claims to be a progressive, and pats him condescendingly on the shoulder, saying: "It's ok with me. You can tell them I'm a fascist". Cameras flash. Smiles beam.

2 weeks later,Hitler has the guy arrested by the gestapo.

 

[GreyCrow]

One of the most ridiculous posts ever.

So you think Mamdani won by getting Trump to admit he's a fascist!!

Trump absolutely destroyed Mamdani in this exchange. Even though Mamdani is clear that Trump is a fascist, he continues to collaborate with him. What does this say?

It says that Mamdani doesn't think fascism is actually too bad. At any rate, he can do deals with fascists and even shares common visions with them! It gives Trump a massive propaganda coup.

At the same time, it confuses all those who voted for Mamdani, thinking that he would genuinely oppose Trump and the fascists in his government.

As I type this, I kind of feel like im writing a comedy script. You know, one where Hitler stands next to some guy like Mamdani who claims to be a progressive, and pats him condescendingly on the shoulder, saying: "It's ok with me. You can tell them I'm a fascist". Cameras flash. Smiles beam.

2 weeks later,Hitler has the guy arrested by the gestapo.

I think you cried when you typed this