Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Evolved1]

Go on, tell us how we feel about it.

Given that you support a different team that plays in the International Christian League, it's fair to say that you don't approve. To you, it's equally distasteful as seeing Bomber Thompson and James Hird having lunch at Tullamarine. I won't bring Steven Dank into the discussion because he's a Geelong man.

I prayed to the FSM before responding and he is the truthful pasta, so I can be sure I'm giving you the absolute truth. Ramen.

 

[Vdubs]

Given that you support a different team that plays in the International Christian League, it's fair to say that you don't approve. To you, it's equally distasteful as seeing Bomber Thompson and James Hird having lunch at Tullamarine. I won't bring Steven Dank into the discussion because he's a Geelong man.

I prayed to the FSM before responding and he is the truthful pasta, so I can be sure I'm giving you the absolute truth. Ramen.

Hirdy and Bomber having lunch together is nothing but a good thing.
Tbh, I have no feelings about the Pell - Pope meeting.

 

[Vdubs]

Wayne Carey has two books in the bible, 1 Kings and 2 Kings.

Two books in the Book of God. That about says it.

 

[Evolved1]

The Catholic church inviting George Pell back brings to mind the following bible passage:

"As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly." Proverbs 26:11

George Pell is vomit and the Catholic church needs a good clean out.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

The stupidity and delusion of the religious hardliners. The unearned certainty. The hypocrisy. Primitive throwbacks to the dark ages insisting they know best. They deserve contempt. They really do.

BBC World Service - HARDtalk, Rob Schenck: Can Trump still count on the religious right?

Will the evangelical Christian right still give Donald Trump their support?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I think pretty much sums it up

 

[cartwright]

Hillsong cult buys festival hall, in middle of pandemic. Must be nice to have that tax free status.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Hillsong cult buys festival hall, in middle of pandemic. Must be nice to have that tax free status.

This is cultural rape!

 

[cartwright]

This is cultural rape!

as if Melbourne hasn’t suffered enough.

its gross. Will they feed all the poor? House the homeless?

no.
They’ll sing their cult, weirdo songs.

 

[chelseacarlton]

as if Melbourne hasn’t suffered enough.

its gross. Will they feed all the poor? House the homeless?

no.
They’ll sing their cult, weirdo songs.

And their pastors will force extract as much $ out of the idiots pockets as they can!

 

[Donakebab]

Hillsong cult buys festival hall, in middle of pandemic. Must be nice to have that tax free status.

I'd rather it burn to smouldering rubble than this disgusting pedo sheltering tax rort hold a single event there.

 

[chelseacarlton]

I'd rather it burn to smouldering rubble than this disgusting pedo sheltering tax rort hold a single event there.

I’d like to save that stage though, it’s Melbourne cultural heritage, as important as the grass on the G.

 

[Power Raid]

Take note, though, they don't specify the gender of those virgins.

Actually, from a numbers perspective, makes a lot more sense when you think about it....

I might highlight this to ISIS or Abu Sayyaf if I ever get captured.

One of us is likely to see the light after that

 

[Gethelred]

I might highlight this to ISIS or Abu Sayyaf if I ever get captured.

One of us is likely to see the light after that

I don't know if they'll see the appeal.

I mean, well. Some of them might. Might be similar to more than a few of their training camps, I'd imagine.

 

[Run and carry]

There are definitely sincere Christians in Hillsong. People who do good things for others. Financially generous. Men and women of faith. The problem is pressure and expectation.

Its upside down. Crowds of people, eyes closed with their arms in the air whilst they sing their lungs out. Nothing wrong with that. But i can't help but think that they are looking for a feeling rather than expressing one.

Spirituality is defined by how much energy you've got, how much you talk about God, and how hard you close your eyes during prayer. Its performance. And image.

The christian message has been condensed to "Look what God has done and how great He is. We must appreciate him more and more and more."

And if you can't have a feeling and there is a deep down sense that God is not real then you pretend.

The starting point for any christian is to face up to your feelings about God. Sometimes there is anger. Sometimes confusion. Often there is just a void.

But sometimes its not who God is but where he can be found.

Its often not in a high energy, plush church. Its in the everyday struggles and kindnesses. And its in the silence. "Be still and know that I am God."

 

[Run and carry]

I don't really want to get into a debate about other stuff on this board because quite frankly I'm too dumb to understand a lot of it.

But while I am VERY skeptical when it comes to an organisation like Hillsong, faith is a very personal thing and I don't think anyone can fully make that assessment themselves without knowing the person they're assessing. I think a lot of the people who ascribe to Hillsong are materialistic, vain, and seeking to gain some sort of financial gain from attaching themselves to a church that is well known for it's financial clout. There are also some very questionable people that have been involved with the place. On the flipside I have a family member who studied the Bible at the college there, I have met personally some of the people who are employed there and others who simply turn up on a Sunday and worship.

They are genuine Christians and they DO take an interest in others and their wellbeing.

Sorry. The above rant was meant to be a reply to this post.

 

[Gethelred]

There are definitely sincere Christians in Hillsong. People who do good things for others. Financially generous. Men and women of faith. The problem is pressure and expectation.

Its upside down. Crowds of people, eyes closed with their arms in the air whilst they sing their lungs out. Nothing wrong with that. But i can't help but think that they are looking for a feeling rather than expressing one.

Spirituality is defined by how much energy you've got, how much you talk about God, and how hard you close your eyes during prayer. Its performance. And image.

The christian message has been condensed to "Look what God has done and how great He is. We must appreciate him more and more and more."

And if you can't have a feeling and there is a deep down sense that God is not real then you pretend.

The starting point for any christian is to face up to your feelings about God. Sometimes there is anger. Sometimes confusion. Often there is just a void.

But sometimes its not who God is but where he can be found.

Its often not in a high energy, plush church. Its in the everyday struggles and kindnesses. And its in the silence. "Be still and know that I am God."

A good post, but if the spirituality in Hillsong is performative, aren't other aspects of faith within a christian context? Is not a rosary to be done in groups, said out loud? A mass service, in which a priest may castigate unbelievers or those not adequately committed?

I suppose what I'm asking is, can there be faith - or at least, Christian faith - without performance?

 

[Total Power]

Another universe existed before ours – and energy from it is coming out of black holes, says Nobel Prize winner

Sir Roger Penrose also claims that another universe will exist after this one

www.independent.co.uk

If this turns out to be true, where does it leave the Genesis and the Quran then? LOL..back you go to reverse engineer the verses?

 

[Run and carry]

A good post, but if the spirituality in Hillsong is performative, aren't other aspects of faith within a christian context? Is not a rosary to be done in groups, said out loud? A mass service, in which a priest may castigate unbelievers or those not adequately committed?

I suppose what I'm asking is, can there be faith - or at least, Christian faith - without performance?

I believe that faith is the absence of performance. Its demonstrative but not performative. The church is essential to Christianity and is in the fact the bride of Christ. Its vitally important that christians meet together. Share communion, pray, baptise, and sing.

I'm not specifically having a go at Hillsong but a trend and at how the church is presented and the expectations and pressure to conform. And the unwillingness to face the fact that God seems to be absent and abandoning a lot of the time and the lack of encouragement to explore those feelings from the church.

There is also too much emphasis on the "service" in some churches. Thats where and when its going to happen. Mass silence (during prayer) is moving and so is music, Christian or not. I think some churches confuse manipulation of emotions with worship, maybe without even realizing it.

 

[Gethelred]

I believe that faith is the absence of performance. Its demonstrative but not performative. The church is essential to Christianity and is in the fact the bride of Christ. Its vitally important that christians meet together. Share communion, pray, baptise, and sing.

I'm not specifically having a go at Hillsong but a trend and at how the church is presented and the expectations and pressure to conform. And the unwillingness to face the fact that God seems to be absent and abandoning a lot of the time and the lack of encouragement to explore those feelings from the church.

There is also too much emphasis on the "service" in some churches. Thats where and when its going to happen. Mass silence (during prayer) is moving and so is music, Christian or not. I think some churches confuse manipulation of emotions with worship, maybe without even realizing it.

I think it's an interesting distinction you're making between the act of having faith, and the act of performing it. The problem I have with it becomes, how is it possible to tell whether someone is demonstrative but not performative, to use your words?

Is it a distinction without much practical application (ergo a distinction made to separate oneself from the bits/people of/from your religion you dislike) or is it something that can actively be observed or seen in others?

 

[Run and carry]

I think it's an interesting distinction you're making between the act of having faith, and the act of performing it. The problem I have with it becomes, how is it possible to tell whether someone is demonstrative but not performative, to use your words?

Is it a distinction without much practical application (ergo a distinction made to separate oneself from the bits/people of/from your religion you dislike) or is it something that can actively be observed or seen in others?

its tough to determine whats going on in people's hearts and what moves them. Most people are genuinely searching for something in the church.

When I talk performance I mean people who are desperately trying to convince themselves that they are always profoundly moved by God, especially with their counterparts on Sunday morning.

They use terms like "growing in faith" and "walking with the Lord" as catchphrases to solidify their beliefs.

There is no room for doubt. They just skip over it hurriedly. Doubt is essential and inevitable when it comes to God. How do you have faith in a God who seems so invisible and ineffective? Or His Son who didn't provide a stack of evidence of His miracles or ministry?

Having faith is less about praising God and more about wrestling with some really big issues.

 

[Gethelred]

its tough to determine whats going on in people's hearts and what moves them. Most people are genuinely searching for something in the church.

When I talk performance I mean people who are desperately trying to convince themselves that they are always profoundly moved by God, especially with their counterparts on Sunday morning.

They use terms like "growing in faith" and "walking with the Lord" as catchphrases to solidify their beliefs.

There is no room for doubt. They just skip over it hurriedly. Doubt is essential and inevitable when it comes to God. How do you have faith in a God who seems so invisible and ineffective? Or His Son who didn't provide a stack of evidence of His miracles or ministry?

Having faith is less about praising God and more about wrestling with some really big issues.

How do you reconcile your doubt, then?

 

[Run and carry]

How do you reconcile your doubt, then?

Doubt is essentially the midpoint of faith and unbelief but is often seen as unbelief in the church. It literally means to be in two minds. When the father of the demoniac boy said to Jesus "I do believe. help me overcome my disbelief" he was actually exhibiting doubt as Jesus never responded to true unbelief plus his son was healed. His doubt was on the way to faith.

But faith is nourished by truth. But not the prescriptive, formulaic truth that churches often present.

How do you reconcile your doubt, then?

When I came out of the church I was pretty banged up. Just opening the bible is still difficult but I use certain verses as hooks to live my life. And where others might run a million miles from Christianity given my experience I am committed to find God and appreciate Christ. And that search relieves doubt sometimes.

I'm certainly inspired by Christ. His apparent contradictions. A thirty year old man telling people he was God is pretty cool. The symbolism of Christianity is fascinating. And the stories (which a lot of people think are just that) are powerful nonetheless.

I often look at the bible and think you just can't make that stuff up. There is a divinity to the book which relieves doubt sometimes. Themes running all through it which you won't see if you're not looking.

The church often mistakes doubt for unbelief whereas it is actually a midpoint between faith and unbelief. So there is room for doubt.

Hey, thanks for the question. I really appreciate that.

 

[Boston tiger]

its tough to determine whats going on in people's hearts and what moves them. Most people are genuinely searching for something in the church.

When I talk performance I mean people who are desperately trying to convince themselves that they are always profoundly moved by God, especially with their counterparts on Sunday morning.

They use terms like "growing in faith" and "walking with the Lord" as catchphrases to solidify their beliefs.

There is no room for doubt. They just skip over it hurriedly. Doubt is essential and inevitable when it comes to God. How do you have faith in a God who seems so invisible and ineffective? Or His Son who didn't provide a stack of evidence of His miracles or ministry?

Having faith is less about praising God and more about wrestling with some really big issues.

Faith is also about action. The more selfless and ( what would Jesus have done ) then the conduit between you and God becomes larger and the relationship clearer. It’s just one of those things.

 

[PhatBoy]

its tough to determine whats going on in people's hearts and what moves them. Most people are genuinely searching for something in the church.

When I talk performance I mean people who are desperately trying to convince themselves that they are always profoundly moved by God, especially with their counterparts on Sunday morning.

They use terms like "growing in faith" and "walking with the Lord" as catchphrases to solidify their beliefs.

There is no room for doubt. They just skip over it hurriedly. Doubt is essential and inevitable when it comes to God. How do you have faith in a God who seems so invisible and ineffective? Or His Son who didn't provide a stack of evidence of His miracles or ministry?

Having faith is less about praising God and more about wrestling with some really big issues.

This is a very interesting post and I think I understand exactly what you mean.

In the simplest terms possible, there are some videos you can find on YouTube that sum this sort of thing up.

My mum is in her late 70s, but I grew up playing the drums in church weekly alongside either her, or my sister, playing the piano. At that stage Shine Jesus Shine was about the most famous Christian song in the world. I found a video a couple of years ago from the ABC Sunday morning show, Songs of Praise - it was Shine Jesus Shine being sung at the Royal Albert Hall by a crowd of a few thousand people with a full symphonic musical backing. It is wonderful and as cliched and overplayed as that song was, you can literally see on the people's faces how happy it makes them singing this really basic five chord song as such a simple act of praising their God. There's no attempt to perform for the people sitting nearby or to force themselves into any action. It's pure and straightforward. Compare that to some of the vision from Hillsong and as serious as faith can be for many people, it is rare that you witness pure joy on the congregation's faces in those videos. It looks like they are having to make themselves demonstrate their faith. I don't doubt that their faith is real, but the actions they use to personify it don't always seem that way.