Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Gethelred]

Surely you know all about Immaculate Conceptions? Didn't they happen all the time and the Bible writers just borrowed the concept from somewhere?

Zeus had a habit of turning up in the flesh, though. Even if he wasn't quite so clear on what species he was at the time.

 

[Evolved1]

oh, you have a conscience after all...

Yep, and I love my family. It must be shocking to you.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Religion aside, do you think it is important for beliefs and statements to be supported by evidence?

Or is your worldview generally evidence-free?

When a new drug is sold, should we demand evidence that it does what it claims and is safe? Or is faith sufficient?

In a court, should we demand evidence before convicting someone? Or is belief sufficient?

I don't understand how people observe a certain standard of evidence generally but then abandon that completely when it comes to outlandish, supernatural claims about religion.

Just show me the evidence, as with every other truth claim.

It is the age old conundrum. I have never come up with a satisfactory answer. I know of pretty smart people who fall into this group. Bloke at my parent's church was a civil engineer and quite high up in the civil service working on big projects. Yet outside of his professional career he was a total fundie and obsessed with rapture theology and biblical prophecy. I can't imagine how someone could be like that and walk in two totally incompatible worlds. One totally based on hard science and mathematical calculation, and the other completely unworldly.

 

[Gethelred]

Yep, and I love my family. It must be shocking to you.

I mean, it's shocking to me, but that's only because you go for Essendon.

 

[Evolved1]

I mean, it's shocking to me, but that's only because you go for Essendon.

I have faith in Essendon.

Jesus has gone missing for 2000 years while we've only disappeared for 20.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I have faith in Essendon.

Jesus has gone missing for 2000 years while we've only disappeared for 20.

I can accept Essendon's existence.

 

[Vdubs]

I have faith in Essendon.

Jesus has gone missing for 2000 years while we've only disappeared for 20.

But how wrong you are. Jesus is far from missing. He is alive and with us.

 

[Total Power]

But how wrong you are. Jesus is far from missing. He is alive and with us rent free in our head

Edited for accuracy

 

[Gethelred]

But how wrong you are. Jesus is far from missing. He is alive and with us.

You know who isn't with us? Vdubs isn't, because if he was, he'd answer the question posed to him multiple times since it came up!

After all, you insist that you do answer the questions posed...

 

[Gethelred]

Also, that's really kind of creepy.

Is Jesus in the room with me, right now? Is he behind me? He's behind me, isn't he?

 

[Total Power]

Also, that's really kind of creepy.

Is Jesus in the room with me, right now? Is he behind me? He's behind me, isn't he?

Out of all the places in the world that desperately need Jesus, he is with Vdubs and other privileged people!

 

[Admiral Byng]

But how wrong you are. Jesus is far from missing. He is alive and with us.

This is the part of being a born-again Christian that never worked for me. Either you get the experience, or you don't. For whatever reason Jesus has not made himself manifest to me, to such an extent that I have to conclude he is not there. Or that I am not predestined to be among the elect to be saved, if you want the Calvanist view. How can I believe in Jesus if he has hidden himself from me?

I have often wondered if there are two types of human brain, those that experience religion and those that don't. A bit like being left-handed or right-handed. Both are perfectly functioning humans, but are somehow wired up differently in the brain.

 

[Evolved1]

This is the part of being a born-again Christian that never worked for me. Either you get the experience, or you don't. For whatever reason Jesus has not made himself manifest to me, to such an extent that I have to conclude he is not there. Or that I am not predestined to be among the elect to be saved, if you want the Calvanist view. How can I believe in Jesus if he has hidden himself from me?

I have often wondered if there are two types of human brain, those that experience religion and those that don't. A bit like being left-handed or right-handed. Both are perfectly functioning humans, but are somehow wired up differently in the brain.

"The biggest mistake xians make is our reasons for deconverting. Since the babble is parable-ridden I thought maybe they would understand this, my personal story in parable.

My name's Numan.

I got a letter from a big company president, Rod, saying I was hired. It was a tough job, requiring me to go against my own nature at times, but to work hard and I'd succeed.

I was to make a great deal, but here's the catch, I wouldn't know how much until payday. I was suspicious, but Rod said every Numan had a payday, only no Numan knows exactly when.

Still skeptical, I read on. Rod assured me that there was a company manual everyone in my department, the church of Rod, knew about that would answer nearly every question I would have and a supervisior who knew the manual inside out. Plus, if I wished, I could use the intercom and talk directly to Rod. There was a seperate division, the crapolics, that had their own vice-prez to talk to Rod.

I went to work and soon had questions. The questions mounted and my co-workers just smiled and did their jobs, which consisted mostly of not pissing off Rod. I consulted the company manual, and it raised more questions than it answered. I consulted the department super, and he just kept telling me Rod was a great boss and I should just have faith in him.

My co-workers didn't seem to notice that the intercom didn't work. In fact, they seemed to be quite satisfied to talk into it and then walk away. I pushed the button in every possible way, and pleaded with Rod to answer even on of my questions, but to no avail.

Then I saw the answer. There was no Rod. The various department bosses may have thought there was, and certainly had the workers convinced, but I couldn't make myself believe that a decent Rod would run a company like this.

So I quit.

Several of my former co-workers, and even people in other departments, told me Rod would find me and kill me, either now or on payday. Others said I'd really never worked for the company or I would have never quit. Still others say Rod will pay me anyway since I once worked for him.

Since I never saw or heard from Rod myself, I have serious doubts, but I'll find out on payday. Or not."

Why I Am No Longer A Xian

The biggest mistake xians make is our reasons for deconverting. Since the babble is parable-ridden I thought maybe they would understand this, my personal story in parable. My name's Numan. I got a letter from a big company president, Rod, saying I was hired. It was a tough job, requiring me to g...

www.ex-christian.net

 

[Baltimore Jack]

You produce one eyewitness account that your grandfather was born. Just one.

I actually have his birth certificate and my grandmother's too

Now can you just scan and post the one for jesus

 

[Baltimore Jack]

That is not an eyewitness account . Anybody could fabricate that.

Oooh, so close, now take just one more little step

 

[raskolnikov]

Christians believe in heaven and hell and that if you don't accept Christianity you go to hell. Now it seems highly unlikely that if you are born in a country that is Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu it's you are ever going to accept Christianity. So basically you are doomed to hell by virtue of your country of birth. Seems rather unfair to me.

 

[mikey127]

Why do you hold a belief for which there is no evidence?

If I agreed with you that there was no evidence I wouldn't believe.

 

[M Malice]

This is all you need to prove his/her/its existence people.

 

[Gethelred]

If I agreed with you that there was no evidence I wouldn't believe.

Can you produce your evidence?

 

[mikey127]

Can you produce your evidence?

Yes but as mentioned several times the point if this thread was never to debate the existence of God evidence for the resurrection etc, if you want to do that there are plenty if other places.

If your interested in the evidence I'd suggest a book such as a case for Christ by Lee Strobel.

 

[Gethelred]

Yes but as mentioned several times the point if this thread was never to debate the existence of God evidence for the resurrection etc, if you want to do that there are plenty if other places.

If your interested in the evidence I'd suggest a book such as a case for Christ by Lee Strobel.

The point of this thread is to Ask a Christian; to ask questions, and to hopefully get them answered. I'm looking at you, Vdubs.

Could you summarize - without prejudicing the argument - A Case for Christ by Lee Strobel?

In any case:

Earl Doherty on *The Case for Christ*

Earl Doherty on *The Case for Christ* Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ

www.caseagainstfaith.com

Taylor Carr's Review of The Case for Christ

The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel Reviewed by Taylor Carr - June 1st, 2011 Originially published on GodlessHaven.com Reprinted with permission.

www.caseagainstfaith.com

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Yes but as mentioned several times the point if this thread was never to debate the existence of God evidence for the resurrection etc, if you want to do that there are plenty if other places.

If your interested in the evidence I'd suggest a book such as a case for Christ by Lee Strobel.

So they need a second book to make a case for the first book?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Yes but as mentioned several times the point if this thread was never to debate the existence of God evidence for the resurrection etc, if you want to do that there are plenty if other places.

If your interested in the evidence I'd suggest a book such as a case for Christ by Lee Strobel.

Or you could read this one

Nailed - David Fitzgerald
(Sub Title: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed At All)

 

[Sweet Jesus]

If I agreed with you that there was no evidence I wouldn't believe.

It's not real evidence. It's basically your beliefs as evidence for your beliefs. That's not "evidence" by any sensible, objective standard.

Do you claim your evidence meets the standard required in a court or for drug trials? It doesn't. Your evidence is people who already believe using those beliefs as evidence for their beliefs. That's not evidence.

Or, at least, it's evidence in the way followers of QAnon have "evidence". If you already accept the central thesis without question, you can find other elements within the broader story that offer confirmation of themselves.

Is your evidence more sound than evidence offered by QAnon followers?

 

[mikey127]

It's not real evidence. It's basically your beliefs as evidence for your beliefs. That's not "evidence" by any sensible, objective standard.

Do you claim your evidence meets the standard required in a court or for drug trials? It doesn't. Your evidence is people who already believe using those beliefs as evidence for their beliefs. That's not evidence.

Or, at least, it's evidence in the way followers of QAnon have "evidence". If you already accept the central thesis without question, you can find other elements within the broader story that offer confirmation of themselves.

Is your evidence more sound than evidence offered by QAnon followers?

I'm not going to debate you I'm not interested in debating non-believers. It's been done to death by people far more intelligent than you and I.