Politics Aussie Fascists, (neo)Nazis and Leg Spinners

[faible]

Whether I agree or disagree with your migration position (I’ve stated it, as has been raised this isn’t the place for it) this march wasn’t an anti immigration march. You said yourself you don’t know of it’s origins (give it a google) Nazis took credit for it, attended it en masse, in uniform and spoke at it.

I’ve also stated that anyone who attended it and stayed when Nazis were there and speaking are either Nazis or Nazi sympathizers. Really not sure how you can argue otherwise.

Surprising amount of posters popping up to defend the neo-nazis. The number should be 0.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yeah, it’s those damn do-gooders ruining the world again.

No it's not the 'do gooders'

Whichever way you wanna boil it down and dissect it, 'freedom of expression' doesn't have a repellant for the expression that broader society doesn't like.

 

[Carn The Berries]

I just hope you bring the same energy to the Hamas Terrorist supporters at the next Palestine rally <3

Show me one example of someone speaking (officially) at one of the pro-Palestine rallies that was advocating for Hamas..

Go on... Just one...

 

[phantom13]

I just hope you bring the same energy to the Hamas Terrorist supporters at the next Palestine rally <3

Cause they’re the same situation.

 

[phantom13]

No it's not the 'do gooders'

Whichever way you wanna boil it down and dissect it, 'freedom of expression' doesn't have a repellant for the expression that broader society doesn't like.

Sorta does.

If i was one of these "theres too much immigration" types and i saw that my precious rally was taken over (or just organised) by Nazis id probably back the truck up on my line of thought.

Unfortunately alot of people seem to be doing the opposite.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Very simplistic, as opposed to your researched and highly nuanced “the world has gone soft” thesis.

Ok I'll rephrase.

For some reason freedom of expression that doesn't align with the majority of societies is allowed.

Call it what you will.

Trying to use the phrase to say I'm of the thinking 'the world has gone soft, we wouldn't let this happen in the old days' - just shows you've jumped to a conclusion and immediately defensive because you've stereotyped me.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Sorta does.

If i was one of these "theres too much immigration" types and i saw that my precious rally was taken over (or just organised) by Nazis id probably back the truck up on my line of thought.

Unfortunately alot of people seem to be doing the opposite.

Will whatever deterrent there is, it isn't deterring.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Cause they’re the same situation.

Yep, glad we're aligned.

 

[phantom13]

Will whatever deterrent there is, it isn't deterring.

I mean youre the one trying to claim the "good people" that went along on Sunday arent Nazis or Naz symathisers...

Youre more in the camp of what im admonishing than the one im pointing out.

Yep, glad we're aligned.

Im sure you knew that was sarcasm but to be clear, i sincerely doubt id be aligned with you on anything, ever.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Im sure you knew that was sarcasm but to be clear, i sincerely doubt id be aligned with you on anything, ever.

And that makes complete sense to me.

 

[Carringbush2010]

He’s also gone to pretty great lengths to first agree that everyone at the Nazi rally is either a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer but then also disagree with that saying that it’s a “nuanced” situation so I probably wouldn’t try to hard to interpret it.

Incorrect.

As I've stated earlier, I don't believe it's a black or white or zero or 100 situation which many are advocating.

It just isn't.

Posters on this board give the impression it's this.

'you go to the rally you're nazi sympathizer or a nazi' This is ignoring that there ARE dumb, naive, gullible people who have been sucked into false narratives that do NOT sympathize with nazis, or who believe they don't.

Then there's others who are openly racist who also don't sympathize with nazis, they just want what they think is 'the good ol days' but they're not interested in beating up brown people. Yep they have similar views, but they BELIEVE TO THEMSELVES that they're not nazi sympathizers.

And there's just flat out nazis.

To argue it's just you're nazi or not, or it's black and white or it's zero or 100 and nothing in between is counter productive and dismissive and willfully ignorant.

 

[phantom13]

Incorrect.

As I've stated earlier, I don't believe it's a black or white or zero or 100 situation which many are advocating.

It just isn't.

Posters on this board give the impression it's this.

'you go to the rally you're nazi sympathizer or a nazi' This is ignoring that there ARE dumb, naive, gullible people who have been sucked into false narratives that do NOT sympathize with nazis, or who believe they don't.

Then there's others who are openly racist who also don't sympathize with nazis, they just want what they think is 'the good ol days' but they're not interested in beating up brown people. Yep they have similar views, but they BELIEVE TO THEMSELVES that they're not nazi sympathizers.

And there's just flat out nazis.

To argue it's just you're nazi or not, or it's black and white or it's zero or 100 and nothing in between is counter productive and dismissive and willfully ignorant.

No, not Nazi or not, Nazi or Nazi sympathiser.

No one is dumb enough to not recognise Nazis at your shitty little march, if you stayed, then you are what you are, whether you think it or not.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I mean youre the one trying to claim the "good people" that went along on Sunday arent Nazis or Naz symathisers...

More like those who think they're good people or don't believe they're nazi sympathizers.

More like people who think they went along with good intent.

There's a difference between those who blatanly hate and those who are genuinely misguided.

I'm not at all saying 'good people' went, I'm claiming there are people who have misguided views that went along without bad intent.

And simplistic and rigid arguments like you either are or you either aren't just creates opposition among those who do not have bad intent.

That's the 'nuance' I'm talking about.

 

[phantom13]

More like those who think they're good people or don't believe they're nazi sympathizers.

More like people who think they went along with good intent.

There's a difference between those who blatanly hate and those who are genuinely misguided.

I'm not at all saying 'good people' went, I'm claiming there are people who have misguided views that went along without bad intent.

And simplistic and rigid arguments like you either are or you either aren't just creates opposition among those who do not have bad intent.

That's the 'nuance' I'm talking about.

Nah, i dont give a shit what you THINK you are.

The march was a Nazi march before it happened, if you went then at best youre a complete ****ing moron Or a Nazi/Nazi sympathiser.

If you went along as a complete moron and stayed when you were marching next to Nazis and stayed for Nazi speeches then the moron element goes. At that point there isnt anyone dumb alive enough to not know what they were there as a part of.

We can argue the inherent racism of the immigration argument all the live long day, at two very clearly defined points on Sunday people made a conscious and informed choice to stay and support a Nazi march. At that point you made your bed.

 

[Carringbush2010]

No, not Nazi or not, Nazi or Nazi sympathiser.

No one is dumb enough to not recognise Nazis at your shitty little march, if you stayed, then you are what you are, whether you think it or not.

Yeah if you stayed, no one would argue that.

Remember this shitty little rally was sold as 'immigration is taking yer jobs and houses and erodes infrastructure blah, blah, blah' not 'join us nazis' and the gullible who actually believe that bs gobbled it up and went.

So let's label them nazis or sympathizers, yeah that won't create backlash from them.

But no one talks about that do they, it's just 'you went, you're a nazi!' Yeah that's productive to social cohesion isn't it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Nah, i dont give a shit what you THINK you are.

The march was a Nazi march before it happened, if you went then at best youre a complete ****ing moron Or a Nazi/Nazi sympathiser.

This has nothing to do with what I think they are.

Remember this rally was sold as 'immigration is causing societal problems', it wasn't sold as 'join us nazis'

If it was advertised as 'join us nazis' then only nazis would've gone.

 

[schneebly111]

Just a side note , does anyone have figures on percentage of crimes committed in Australia by people born overseas compared to Australians that were born here. I’m assuming it’s very low , despite the hysteria

Not really a side note, it’s a critical thing as one of the main anti migration arguments is they bring crime.

Except they don’t.

Are Crime Rates Higher Among Migrants, Including Refugees? – scottjhiggins.com

Australia has pretty much strict migration policy, we mostly let in educated or skilled migrants or uni students. Not really crime committers.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Incorrect.

As I've stated earlier, I don't believe it's a black or white or zero or 100 situation which many are advocating.

It just isn't.

Posters on this board give the impression it's this.

'you go to the rally you're nazi sympathizer or a nazi' This is ignoring that there ARE dumb, naive, gullible people who have been sucked into false narratives that do NOT sympathize with nazis, or who believe they don't.

Then there's others who are openly racist who also don't sympathize with nazis, they just want what they think is 'the good ol days' but they're not interested in beating up brown people. Yep they have similar views, but they BELIEVE TO THEMSELVES that they're not nazi sympathizers.

And there's just flat out nazis.

To argue it's just you're nazi or not, or it's black and white or it's zero or 100 and nothing in between is counter productive and dismissive and willfully ignorant.

Ok, so you are saying that the people who attended the nazi organised protest, marched behind nazis and listened and cheered to the nazis speech…. might only be 50 % nazi?

 

[phantom13]

This has nothing to do with what I think they are.

Remember this rally was sold as 'immigration is causing societal problems', it wasn't sold as 'join us nazis'

If it was advertised as 'join us nazis' then only nazis would've gone.

You or they. What someone thinks THEY are is irrelevant to me. Plenty of people do the "im not racist BUT" it doesnt make them not racist.

Id disagree with what the rally was advertised as pretty vehemently but for the sake of this, ive already adressed that morons may have attended unwittlingly.

Those that stayed, whats their excuse? The rally wasnt big enough to not see the Nazis and their speeches so why did they stay?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Not really a side note, it’s a critical thing as one of the main anti migration arguments is they bring crime.

Except they don’t.

Are Crime Rates Higher Among Migrants, Including Refugees? – scottjhiggins.com

Australia has pretty much strict migration policy, we mostly let in educated or skilled migrants or uni students. Not really crime committers.

Thanks for the 11 year old, 800 word blog with limited sources. You've really cracked the issue wide open and gotten to the crux of the point on a well founded and context relevant basis.

 

[the_interloper]

Incorrect.

As I've stated earlier, I don't believe it's a black or white or zero or 100 situation which many are advocating.

It just isn't.

Posters on this board give the impression it's this.

'you go to the rally you're nazi sympathizer or a nazi' This is ignoring that there ARE dumb, naive, gullible people who have been sucked into false narratives that do NOT sympathize with nazis, or who believe they don't.

Then there's others who are openly racist who also don't sympathize with nazis, they just want what they think is 'the good ol days' but they're not interested in beating up brown people. Yep they have similar views, but they BELIEVE TO THEMSELVES that they're not nazi sympathizers.

And there's just flat out nazis.

To argue it's just you're nazi or not, or it's black and white or it's zero or 100 and nothing in between is counter productive and dismissive and willfully ignorant.

Would depend if they left when the Nazis took the mic

 

[phantom13]

Would depend if they left when the Nazis took the mic

Nah, they might still just be lovely people with good intentions, maybe a little dull.

 

[demondavey]

Here’s the thing. There is a concerted effort to blame the “woke left” for every problem in society. Yes, even the rising presence neo-nazis are apparently the fault of woke PC lefties. It’s a mechanism invented so that they don’t have to deal with the uncomfortable reality that corporate society, media and many in government are responsible for perpetuating racist and xenophobic ideologies. It’s uncomfortable because most of our jobs, our consumer habits revolve lives revolve around those same brands and corporations, most of our cultural experience is through that same media and because we voted for those government representatives. In short, we are responsible for supporting it. It’s far more comfortable to blame the greens and unshaven university students.

I am not blaming the left. Or the greens or ‘woke’.

I vote hard left, I’ve been called woke for standing up for ideas or ideologies by people on this website.

The point was that perhaps the courts aren’t being hard enough or haven’t been on Tom Sewell. That’s all.

 

[schneebly111]

Hed be reading the Quran and praying to mecca in 12 hours tops is my bet.

Australian anti-Islamic activist Shermon Burgess becomes the latest far-right figure to convert to Islam

Across the world there's a trend of far-right figures — many of them prominent Islamophobes — converting to Islam to counter rising 'wokeness'.

www.crikey.com.au

 

[schneebly111]

Thanks for the 11 year old, 800 word blog with limited sources. You've really cracked the issue wide open and gotten to the crux of the point on a well founded and context relevant basis.

And you haven’t provided a shred of evidence to prove the other way