Coach Ben Rutten: Senior Coach

[boncer34]

Saady was the most important. Just ask him.

Rough mate.

 

[ghostdog]

Rough mate.

"Saad said a desire for a “fresh start” was behind his decision to leave Essendon"

We were about to go into a new season with a new coach in control. But Saad wanted a 'fresh start.'

"At the end of the day, sometimes you have to make big decisions and what’s best for yourself and family..."

Subtext: he chose money over his relationships at Essendon.

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/adam...ons-behind-mysterious-essendon-exit-c-1566580


"[Saad's agent, John] Meesen also rejected an assertion that Saad wasn't happy playing as a stopping defender but confirmed that his client would play up the ground at the Blues.

"There were reports that Adam doesn't want to play lockdown defence and that's just not true ... He'll play lockdown when need be, but he'll also push up the ground more," Meesen said."

So on one hand he rejects the idea that Saad doesn't want to play a lockdown role. It's just that he wants the freedom to be able to push up the ground more. Because he never had that freedom at Essendon, right? Bullshit is right.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...as-bomber-becomes-a-blue-20201111-p56dk4.html


He says there are a couple of reasons he doesn't want to mention and that's fine. Maybe there's something else that's more important that he isn't talking about, but that choice only allows a judgment of the circumstance based on what has been said.
He's a mercenary.

So, I'm comfortable with my comment.

 

[boncer34]

"Saad said a desire for a “fresh start” was behind his decision to leave Essendon"

We were about to go into a new season with a new coach in control. But Saad wanted a 'fresh start.'

"At the end of the day, sometimes you have to make big decisions and what’s best for yourself and family..."

Subtext: he chose money over his relationships at Essendon.

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/adam...ons-behind-mysterious-essendon-exit-c-1566580


"[Saad's agent, John] Meesen also rejected an assertion that Saad wasn't happy playing as a stopping defender but confirmed that his client would play up the ground at the Blues.

"There were reports that Adam doesn't want to play lockdown defence and that's just not true ... He'll play lockdown when need be, but he'll also push up the ground more," Meesen said."

So on one hand he rejects the idea that Saad doesn't want to play a lockdown role. It's just that he wants the freedom to be able to push up the ground more. Because he never had that freedom at Essendon, right? Bullshit is right.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...as-bomber-becomes-a-blue-20201111-p56dk4.html


He says there are a couple of reasons he doesn't want to mention and that's fine. Maybe there's something else that's more important that he isn't talking about, but that choice only allows a judgment of the circumstance based on what has been said.
He's a mercenary.

So, I'm comfortable with my comment.

Him being a mercenary (which I have zero issues with) doesn't equal him thinking he's the most important person at the club.

 

[ghostdog]

Him being a mercenary (which I have zero issues with) doesn't equal him thinking he's the most important person at the club.

Semantics. I was clearly being facetious on the basis of him being a mercenary.

 

[boncer34]

Semantics. I was clearly being facetious on the basis of him being a mercenary.

It didn't come accross clearly to me at all but fair enough. In terms of being a mercenary, if you got offered more cash and more years to do the same job at a different company would you say no?

 

[fairbump_playon]

If we combine the effort the 2016 side put in with the players we have now, we shouldn’t be that bad actually.

That’s what I’m thinking.

So glad to see the back of Worsfold.

 

[fairbump_playon]

It didn't come accross clearly to me at all but fair enough. In terms of being a mercenary, if you got offered more cash and more years to do the same job at a different company would you say no?

Only if the new job is at Carlton.

 

[ghostdog]

It didn't come accross clearly to me at all but fair enough. In terms of being a mercenary, if you got offered more cash and more years to do the same job at a different company would you say no?

Depends, but we're then talking about two different contexts of professionalism. I expect, as a lot of supporters do, the loyalty of the players.
I'd hope we don't recruit players who are more interested in money and individual accolades.

 

[boncer34]

Depends, but we're then talking about two different contexts of professionalism. I expect, as a lot of supporters do, the loyalty of the players.
I'd hope we don't recruit players who are more interested in money and individual accolades.

The club have zero loyalty to players, they have no issues cutting them if it's suits their interests.

Expecting loyalty when it only goes one way isn't fair to me.

 

[ghostdog]

The club have zero loyalty to players, they have no issues cutting them if it's suits their interests.

Expecting loyalty when it only goes one way isn't fair to me.

Generally speaking, those interests are with respect to being able to perform to a certain standard. While a player can do that, of course the club is generally loyal to the player. If a player can no longer do that, that's time. The players know this and should be expected to do their best to prepare to be able to continue to do this.

Saad was getting games because he maintained those standards, then he chose to be disloyal to the club that enabled him to come back to Victoria tobe with his family (remember that?), and gave him those games and was willing to continue doing that.

Regarding Saad, he finished Top 5 in the B&F 3 times in a row I think. As far as club loyalty, all I can say is perhaps he should have been in the leadership group for 2020 at least.

Anyway, this discussion will be a carousel you and I will not see eye-to-eye on.

 

[boncer34]

Generally speaking, those interests are with respect to being able to perform to a certain standard. While a player can do that, of course the club is generally loyal to the player. If a player can no longer do that, that's time. The players know this and should be expected to do their best to prepare to be able to continue to do this.

Saad was getting games because he maintained those standards, then he chose to be disloyal to the club that enabled him to come back to Victoria tobe with his family (remember that?), and gave him those games and was willing to continue doing that.

Regarding Saad, he finished Top 5 in the B&F 3 times in a row I think. As far as club loyalty, all I can say is perhaps he should have been in the leadership group for 2020 at least.

Anyway, this discussion will be a carousel you and I will not see eye-to-eye on.

It's not exactly like if we hadn't offered him a contract nobody else would.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Generally speaking, those interests are with respect to being able to perform to a certain standard. While a player can do that, of course the club is generally loyal to the player. If a player can no longer do that, that's time. The players know this and should be expected to do their best to prepare to be able to continue to do this.

Saad was getting games because he maintained those standards, then he chose to be disloyal to the club that enabled him to come back to Victoria tobe with his family (remember that?), and gave him those games and was willing to continue doing that.

Regarding Saad, he finished Top 5 in the B&F 3 times in a row I think. As far as club loyalty, all I can say is perhaps he should have been in the leadership group for 2020 at least.

Anyway, this discussion will be a carousel you and I will not see eye-to-eye on.

The reasons he left (focus on personal gain, unwillingness to play a team based role) were probably the reasons he wasn't in the leadership group

 

[Maxabillions]

fu** Saad

 

[ghostdog]

It's not exactly like if we hadn't offered him a contract nobody else would.

The point is, we did. He then claimed the move to Carlton was for his family. Yeah. Okay.

 

[ghostdog]

The reasons he left (focus on personal gain, unwillingness to play a team based role) were probably the reasons he wasn't in the leadership group

Yeah, probs right.

 

[ghostdog]

fu** Saad

Agreed.

 

[The Donners]

It didn't come accross clearly to me at all but fair enough. In terms of being a mercenary, if you got offered more cash and more years to do the same job at a different company would you say no?

Cash before flag.

No way Carlton are going to win a flag with a half back flanker one of their highest paid players, just doesn’t work. He’d be the highest paid small defender in the league. I’m disappointed he’s gone from a spectacle point of view but I’m happy we keep the cash to throw at Dunkley next trade period.

 

[boncer34]

Cash before flag.

No way Carlton are going to win a flag with a half back flanker one of their highest paid players, just doesn’t work. He’d be the highest paid small defender in the league. I’m disappointed he’s gone from a spectacle point of view but I’m happy we keep the cash to throw at Dunkley next trade period.

I completely agree. He's not going to win a flag, it's for the cash. Which incidentally helps his family more than our contract.

And I've been guilty of feeling the same way as ghostdog in the past but I've moved past it. Clubs aren't loyal so supporters shouldn't hold players to a different standard. If there was a better option we'd have dumped Saad no questions, can't blame him for doing the same.

Especially when they leave and we get a good result.

 

[Mootsy]

I just hope he and the team can get rid of the awkward, fumbley style football. Lose, but lose confidently making a contest of the four quarters available to play. Punish dumb football in a productive way.

 

[JayJ20]

I just don't understand why people get salty or angry about a player leaving when their contract is up, especially when we're trash. They've only committed to the club for that specified period. We didn't turn out to be as he thought we'd be so it's a two-way street. Saad honoured his contract and gave it his all every game he played. As far as I'm concerned, he fulfilled his contract so I have zero issues with him choosing to leave. I just wish he didn't go to the scum, but we got pick 8 out of them anyway.

 

[Maxabillions]

I just don't understand why people get salty or angry about a player leaving when their contract is up, especially when we're trash. They've only committed to the club for that specified period. We didn't turn out to be as he thought we'd be so it's a two-way street. Saad honoured his contract and gave it his all every game he played. As far as I'm concerned, he fulfilled his contract so I have zero issues with him choosing to leave. I just wish he didn't go to the scum, but we got pick 8 out of them anyway.

Yeah I don’t really hold anything against him personally for leaving.

but he plays for Carlton now so fu** him

 

[Milanista28]

I agree with the fu** Saad calls, pretty bang on

 

[VelvetSledge]

I just don't understand why people get salty or angry about a player leaving when their contract is up, especially when we're trash. They've only committed to the club for that specified period. We didn't turn out to be as he thought we'd be so it's a two-way street. Saad honoured his contract and gave it his all every game he played. As far as I'm concerned, he fulfilled his contract so I have zero issues with him choosing to leave. I just wish he didn't go to the scum, but we got pick 8 out of them anyway.

I can see this point, but also, **** Carlton. Which in turn, means **** Saad.

 

[ghostdog]

I completely agree. He's not going to win a flag, it's for the cash. Which incidentally helps his family more than our contract.

And I've been guilty of feeling the same way as ghostdog in the past but I've moved past it. Clubs aren't loyal so supporters shouldn't hold players to a different standard. If there was a better option we'd have dumped Saad no questions, can't blame him for doing the same.

Especially when they leave and we get a good result.

I don't think we'd have dumped Saad for a better option. I think we'd have kept Saad and tried to recruit the better option as well, given McKenna went home. But this is just being picky. I get the principle you're putting up.

 

[nonamehack]

I don't think we'd have dumped Saad for a better option. I think we'd have kept Saad and tried to recruit the better option as well, given McKenna went home. But this is just being picky. I get the principle you're putting up.

So.... How about this new coach rutten?