Bluemour Discussion Thread III

[thylacine60]

How do you mean 'no guarantee' agro?

 

[Azul]

The kid came with a 2 year warranty - pretty standard. After that, it's caveat emptor.

 

[agro]

Lisfranc injury, will he have his pace, evasive ability, etc - I hope he does but no guarantee.

 

[passmark]

Pickett is also coming off a very severe injury - no guarantee that he will be 100% of the player he was touted to be.

Maybe.

But he's ready for pre-season, when is Ahern back?

There's almost no basis to claim that one selection is better than the other.

It's Injury Lotto, so far we've gone with the guy who hasn't had two ACL's and the guy who can participate as soon as two weeks away.

If either Ahern or Pickett come off it will be terrific for both clubs but to say we have overpaid in comparison to North is wrong.

 

[agro]

I think I was just pissed of during the whole trade period that all the AFL Trade Journos and particularly Brett Anderson- kept on repeating the mantra when referring to our GWS trade that "pick 5 should get it done" whereas with all the other players and clubs it was "just a second or third rounder" - it was just like we had to pay a premium.

 

[passmark]

I think I was just pissed of during the whole trade period that all the AFL Trade Journos and particularly Brett Anderson- kept on repeating the mantra when referring to our GWS trade that "pick 5 should get it done" whereas with all the other players and clubs it was "just a second or third rounder" - it was just like we had to pay a premium.

But we didn't . We paid what we believed is fair.

Tuohy for Marchbank and Smedts wasn't it?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Marchbank is rated a lot higher than Stewart. He was actually a required player. We pushed hard on Gibbs because he was required. We obviously rated Marchbank high enough to pay the price so it is water under the bridge.

But yes, the GWS relationship is over. I knew as much when their recruiting team changed. We need to find another trading partner.

Yeah I know that, but Stewart went for pick #70 something didn't he?

If there was a KPP premium surely they'd have asked for a better pick than that?

I just think they knew we wanted Marchbank badly and used that against us. Then with the Gibbs situation going on, they wanted to hold out for #13.

This could be a good reason why we should just draft our players from here on out. If we show interest in someone, we almost always have to pay more than what we should, even after being uncontracted and nominating us.

Next year, I think we take the 1st rounder for Gibbs, we then offer up our 2018 1st for an early 2017 1st, regardless of Ben Silvagni's perceived value. We need to bring in multiple high end dps so they can grow together, can't go off getting only 1 every year. Demons did it last year and got Oliver + Weideman.

With 3 top 11 picks, it'll be similar to our 2015 draft, but 2 of those picks possibly being top 5. I just think that our current squad is made up of too many players from other clubs. Luckily some of them are quite young still. We need to bring in some of our own young guns and let them become the core of our team.

Although, if Fyfe wants to come to us and we can pay him what he wants, we can take him as a free agent. That won't cost anything in terms of dps. Would potentially be the biggest and best recruiting period in our history next year if we bring in 3 top 11 picks and Fyfe.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

But we didn't . We paid what we believed is fair.

Tuohy for Marchbank and Smedts wasn't it?

Don't forget our 2017 2nd rounder which is likely to be an early 20's pick.

Doesn't look as good when it's Tuohy + #21 for Marchbank and a journeyman.

Pick #21 next year alone should have been enough for Marchbank.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Another thing, I can't tell you how glad I am that we kept pick #5.

The rumour of #5 for Marchbank, Pickett, Stewart and McKenna would have been a disaster.

Stewart went for #70+, McKenna for #50 something and Pickett we got for a couple of 3rd rounders.

If ever there was a time for Barass info to fall short, that was it. Still can't believe the club were even considering it.

 

[HARKER]

Don't forget our 2017 2nd rounder which is likely to be an early 20's pick.

Doesn't look as good when it's Tuohy + #21 for Marchbank and a journeyman.

Pick #21 next year alone should have been enough for Marchbank.

The only question that really needs to be raised is; Will we be far better having done the trades or not?
I like Tuohy a lot but I don't think we'll miss him anywhere near as much as we'll celebrate for the gain of Marchbank.

GWS didn't want to let him go whereas they didn't particularly care for all the others. That GWS (AFL) for you.


..........and yes.......glad we didn't head down the path of letting the #5 go......or even this years second as had been raised a couple of months back.

 

[RudyBlue]

This is him as of last month:

Can you confirm if this is still him?

 

[mediumsizered]

I think I was just pissed of during the whole trade period that all the AFL Trade Journos and particularly Brett Anderson- kept on repeating the mantra when referring to our GWS trade that "pick 5 should get it done" whereas with all the other players and clubs it was "just a second or third rounder" - it was just like we had to pay a premium.

This was a reflection of how much higher Marchbank was rated compared to the others. I am very confident we have picked up a beauty.

 

[passmark]

Don't forget our 2017 2nd rounder which is likely to be an early 20's pick.

Doesn't look as good when it's Tuohy + #21 for Marchbank and a journeyman.

Pick #21 next year alone should have been enough for Marchbank.

They've picked Marchbank as a 10 year player.

We committed to him early and kept our part of the bargain, unlike Adelaide who now have nothing.

Tuohy was gone, no matter what.

All this keyboard trading is like people who think they can trade in the Stockmarket because they see a few stocks go up that they've had their eye on. But when they actually have to put their cash on the line it's a completely different story and they almost always fail.

KB claimed that Gubby Allen had offered Marchbank $700k a year to nominate the Pies but he said no because he had given a commitment to the Blues.

Seems like a quality player and person and all this "we should have bundled up picks 59 and 65 and thrown in Armfield" is just post fact shizen.

 

[rp84]

I realize that Gibbs has family links in Adelaide but don't you think that the way they hung him out to dry this year would leave a sour taste in his mouth ?

It would to most red-blooded humans. Especially when it was his old manager that screwed him over. Either way you read it, Adelaide did not rate Gibbsy enough to think he would take them the next step.

Their loss.

 

[passmark]

Another thing, I can't tell you how glad I am that we kept pick #5.

The rumour of #5 for Marchbank, Pickett, Stewart and McKenna would have been a disaster.

Stewart went for #70+, McKenna for #50 something and Pickett we got for a couple of 3rd rounders.

If ever there was a time for Barass info to fall short, that was it. Still can't believe the club were even considering it.

Rumoured to be considering it and it didn't happen.

 

[bmaurizio]

Don't forget our 2017 2nd rounder which is likely to be an early 20's pick.

Doesn't look as good when it's Tuohy + #21 for Marchbank and a journeyman.

Pick #21 next year alone should have been enough for Marchbank.

Disagree, Marchbank for pick pick 21/23 in next year's trade will be a good trade he's a talented KP and future gun. As for Touhy he was uncontracted , little the club could do really.
Pickett is a super talent player, if he beats he's injuries for some 3rd rounders is steal , big X factor and speed to burn.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yeah I know that, but Stewart went for pick #70 something didn't he?

If there was a KPP premium surely they'd have asked for a better pick than that?

Quality KPP premium.

 

[BlueWoof_#39]

Don't forget our 2017 2nd rounder which is likely to be an early 20's pick.

Doesn't look as good when it's Tuohy + #21 for Marchbank and a journeyman.

Pick #21 next year alone should have been enough for Marchbank.

We essentially gave Touhy, 2017 2nd Round & 3rd Rounder from the Bulldogs for Marchbank, Smedts, Pickett & Palmer....it might be seen as over paying but unlike the Crows we got 2 players in Marchbank and Pickett who we committed too bringing across.

This trade period even though it would have been nice to cash in on Gibbs, one, we have sent a strong message to opposition clubs trying to poach players that we won't roll over with a contracted players demands, two, a message to our own players that we won't just let you get your way after a commitment to the club, the club comes first, and, three, a message to potential recruits that if you choose us we will get the deal done. SOS again had a near perfect period in the scheme of things, bring on the draft.


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[JustaBattler]

Carlton has put in place one of the better potential backlines in AFL - it is a good start. Murphy and Gibbs can hang around helping Cripps and whoever else teh Club drafts to improve teh midfield. Last year HarryMc/C.Curnow were added as developing forwards. The core tall brigade is in place. Thsi year Cuningham, #5 will no doubt be fast tracked and developed in midfield. Meanwhile ( Sumner/Buckley/Lamb/Kerridge/Wright/Palmer/Smedts/Boekhurst/Graham/Armfield/White) can slot in where required and Sheehan /Byrne along with Pickett provide potential X factor when back on field.

The CLub is no longer 'hostage' to players who were mistakes- we can carry Jones/Thomas/Jacksh as pretty much the last of the goof ups for one more year.

An objective asessment sees the Club doing the right things according to the rebuild plan.

This list will be more competitive and get better as the year goes on.

and on a final note - Carlton for the first time in many years - can afford to splash the cash for the right players to really rev thing up in 2018.

We are on the up.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

They've picked Marchbank as a 10 year player.

We committed to him early and kept our part of the bargain, unlike Adelaide who now have nothing.

Tuohy was gone, no matter what.

All this keyboard trading is like people who think they can trade in the Stockmarket because they see a few stocks go up that they've had their eye on. But when they actually have to put their cash on the line it's a completely different story and they almost always fail.

KB claimed that Gubby Allen had offered Marchbank $700k a year to nominate the Pies but he said no because he had given a commitment to the Blues.

Seems like a quality player and person and all this "we should have bundled up picks 59 and 65 and thrown in Armfield" is just post fact shizen.

I didn't say 59+65+Army, I said our 2017 2nd rounder which would be more than fair all things considered. It's the fact that GWS were playing games with us that has added to the shit Adelaide were giving us.

Marchbank definitely does seem like a quality person, there's no denying that even before he was drafted he came across as a good kid.

KB is a nutcase and I'd take everything he says with a grain of salt.

But you clearly said it was Tuohy for Marchbank and Smedts. It wasn't, we lost an early 2nd round pick as well as a best 22 player for 1 best 22 player. Upside is Marchbank will be playing for a lot longer than Tuohy will.

We take the stance that Tuohy was gone no matter what, but so was Marchbank mate. Exact same situation. Uncontracted and nominated another club.

Only difference is, we dealt fairly, if anything we let Tuohy go for unders.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

We essentially gave Touhy, 2017 2nd Round & 3rd Rounder from the Bulldogs for Marchbank, Smedts, Pickett & Palmer....it might be seen as over paying but unlike the Crows we got 2 players in Marchbank and Pickett who we committed too bringing across.

This trade period even though it would have been nice to cash in on Gibbs, one, we have sent a strong message to opposition clubs trying to poach players that we won't roll over with a contracted players demands, two, a message to our own players that we won't just let you get your way after a commitment to the club, the club comes first, and, three, a message to potential recruits that if you choose us we will get the deal done. SOS again had a near perfect period in the scheme of things, bring on the draft.


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Yes I agree, there wasn't much more SOS could have done really. Probably could've got more out of Geelong but could tell he needed another 1st rounder for Marchbank so his hand was forced to move quicker on that deal.

Just pissed off with the way GWS and Adelaide screwed us around.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Quality KPP premium.

Possibly, but they're still both unproven. Hopefully Marchbank can get his body right and team up with Weitering in the back line for the next decade. If that happens, then we'd have to be pretty happy.

 

[passmark]

I didn't say 59+65+Army, I said our 2017 2nd rounder which would be more than fair all things considered. It's the fact that GWS were playing games with us that has added to the shit Adelaide were giving us.

Marchbank definitely does seem like a quality person, there's no denying that even before he was drafted he came across as a good kid.

KB is a nutcase and I'd take everything he says with a grain of salt.

But you clearly said it was Tuohy for Marchbank and Smedts. It wasn't, we lost an early 2nd round pick as well as a best 22 player for 1 best 22 player. Upside is Marchbank will be playing for a lot longer than Tuohy will.

We take the stance that Tuohy was gone no matter what, but so was Marchbank mate. Exact same situation. Uncontracted and nominated another club.

Only difference is, we dealt fairly, if anything we let Tuohy go for unders.

Pick 21 next year and GWS let him go into the PSD.

After event experts aren't much good at anything and people who look at list management as a series of independent unrelated trades where you have to win every trade are even less useful.

It's list building not trade winning.

Get your head around the difference and you'll sleep better.

 

[passmark]

Possibly, but they're still both unproven. Hopefully Marchbank can get his body right and team up with Weitering in the back line for the next decade. If that happens, then we'd have to be pretty happy.

But we've paid to much for him, how can we be happy no matter how good he is?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Disagree, Marchbank for pick pick 21/23 in next year's trade will be a good trade he's a talented KP and future gun. As for Touhy he was uncontracted , little the club could do really.
Pickett is a super talent player, if he beats he's injuries for some 3rd rounders is steal , big X factor and speed to burn.

And I'll say it again, so was Marchbank.

I don't get what you're disagreeing with here either. You say Marchbank for #21/23 would be a good trade, but that's also what I said. The real question is, will Tuohy + 21/23 for Marchbank be a good trade? Only time will tell. Pickett was a separate trade and I have no issue with that one at all.

The issue I have is GWS knew how badly we wanted Marchbank and held it to us. They have Richmond people there now so we have to stay away from them from now on. We can't allow them to screw us out of draft picks again.