Blues Quick Small Fwds...

[Syphoncom]

Syphoncom, we've only played 5 games this decade...

I daresay you didn't watch the Monday game too intently.

Well, the new decade really starts in 2011, there wasn't a year 0

 

[Darkdayz]

Beware the fool who thinks we will just bomb it in long, we are far more likely to kick grubbers into the 50 and use our smalls superior speed then bomb it in.

Haha I knew someone would pick that point out, to be honest I was too lazy to bring that point up. But seeing as you have, I might as well respond to it. yea, I guess grubbing it or rolling it in is an option although it would probably work, you'd get a few goals that way, but you might struggle if we bring in goldsack. I only say that because with presti out reid and goldy take it of the deck really well. the other problem is we tend to drop a midfielder or a ruckmen back.

I didnt see your crows game and only parts of the cats game but overall, i think my side has the options for locking down your trio, if the first line up of harry,shaw,toovs fails then their is always the option of reid/ thomas/ wellingham/ beams/ mcaffer to rotate and adjust. Although we would lose drive if that was to occur. Overall confident, my side has the tools to counter tall and small, we can play zone or 1on1. We have the ability to lock it down, scrub it out or just go goal for goal.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Come on Sunny, tell me you didnt get even a little bit firm watching the 3 amigos on Monday.

Please tell me you're not calling Betts, Garlett and Yarran the "Three Amigos" now.

 

[davis_756]

Haha I knew someone would pick that point out, to be honest I was too lazy to bring that point up. But seeing as you have, I might as well respond to it. yea, I guess grubbing it or rolling it in is an option although it would probably work, you'd get a few goals that way, but you might struggle if we bring in goldsack. I only say that because with presti out reid and goldy take it of the deck really well. the other problem is we tend to drop a midfielder or a ruckmen back.

I didnt see your crows game and only parts of the cats game but overall, i think my side has the options for locking down your trio, if the first line up of harry,shaw,toovs fails then their is always the option of reid/ thomas/ wellingham/ beams/ mcaffer to rotate and adjust. Although we would lose drive if that was to occur. Overall confident, my side has the tools to counter tall and small, we can play zone or 1on1. We have the ability to lock it down, scrub it out or just go goal for goal.

Betts has been used as more of a leading forward so you have to play someone who has pace and good ground skills, i'd say O'Brien.

Garlett rarely takes marks he just blitz's away with his speed once the ball hits the deck. You don't need a marking defender on him you need someone with extreme pace.

Yarran looks slow because he is so smooth in everything he does, he may only have 6 touches but he will kick 2 goals with those 6 touches. Another quick small defender required here.

Houlihan is probably the guy you will use Shaw on, of our 4 smaller forwards he is the least defensive of them.

O'Hailpin is a goal square player so Presti gets him

Henderson plays more up the ground to create space for the smalls so you could probably get away with playing Maxwell on him.

I honestly have nfi who your other 2 defenders are, I make a point to avoid collingwood games when at all possible. If you have another big defender maybe Maxwell will go to Yarran.

With Jolly & Fraser i'd have expected your rucks to be up there with the best in the comp but then I check and see they are only averaging 27 hitouts a game between them. Unsure why should be a good battle there anyways.

The midfielders are interesting:

Mclean vs Ball, Penders vs Murphy, Judd vs Thomas?, Swan vs Joseph

Be interesting to see which way these battles go, the depth will tell the tale in this one which sides backups will stand up when the big guys are taking a rest.

Jamison vs Medhurst (Head to head 2-1)

Cloke vs White (If cloke can kick straight this may be a danger but given he almost never does 2 weeks in a row and white has had 1 goal 6 or something kicked on him I don't think so)

Cloke vs Bower (Should Waite replace white I assume bower will go to cloke not waite, be a close battle)

Fraser vs Bower/Waite (Depending on which is in, has the chance to exploit us with height may force setanta back and move Waite forward)

Didak vs Russell (He did the job on Steve Johnson, very similar to Didak I expect him to do well again here)

Davis vs Armfield (Held Byrnes to 8 possessions last week, he is ready to step up to the task here with Davis out of form as it is)

Beams? vs Gibbs No idea who your 6th forward will be or even if Fraser will play forward but Gibbs gets #6 to provide us rebound off halfback.

Our backline really was a wall last week, anytime it went near Geelong's goals it would come flying back through Walker/Armfield/Gibbs/Russell's hands, hopefully the loss of Walker won't be missed with Bower/Waite replacing his rebound capabilities.

------------------

I really can't see anywhere for either side to cause the other side major headaches, this game will be decided through who wins the midfield battle and who rocks up with greater intensity at the contests.

 

[buzzbuzz]

Honestly, I see this game being decided by Collingwood. If we turn up to play, we win - even if the Blues turn up to play too. If we're not switched on, we might either sneak a close win or go down.

 

[Syphoncom]

So much analysis, I think we've gone full circle. Soon enough we'll have the results

 

[DidakDelight]

Maxwell will take Houlihan.
If the blues dont play through him with hit up leads Maxwell will zone off and it will be by bye blues. Likewise with Shaw and whoever he plays on, his leads must be honored or its on his bike for heater

 

[Quicky]

I think the defensive match ups will look like this:

O'Brien >> Betts
Shaw >> Yarran
Toovey >> Garlett (great pace match)
Maxwell >> Houlihan
Brown >> O'Hailpan
Reid >> Henderson

None of those match ups particularly frighten me.

 

[DidakDelight]

I think the defensive match ups will look like this:

O'Brien >> Betts
Shaw >> Yarran
Toovey >> Garlett (great pace match)
Maxwell >> Houlihan
Brown >> O'Hailpan
Reid >> Henderson

None of those match ups particularly frighten me.

Thats exactly how I see the matchups.
They'll bring Kruezer into the forward line changing with Houlihan who will go to the bench. This will give them 3 talls at a time with 3 smalls.

When this happens I expect a little backline shuffle with Maxwell moving onto Henderson, Reid onto O'Hailpin and Brown on to Kruezer.
They'll try and get Maxwell to the goalsquare but I dont see how they'll be able to.

The only other change they could make in their forward line would be Waite for Henderson, but we wouldnt need to react to this.
The way I see it is Waite can only come in to replace either White as a Backman or Henderson as a forward. If he replaces white he could be used forward or back with Henderson having a run down back.
But if he replaces Henderson he'll play forward all day. I cant see white being thrown forward, but I could be wrong

 

[Koki Freelander]

Beware the fool who thinks we will just bomb it in long, we are far more likely to kick grubbers into the 50 and use our smalls superior speed then bomb it in.

The improvement from our side has been the ability to hold the ball up and wait for a target to appear rather then just bomb it long to Fev. We lost a few games early still bombing it in but vs Adelaide & Geelong that hasn't happened.

It has taken time but we are gradually improving our forward line without fev, I expect it to improve again this week and for the rest of the year.

I think Carlton are looking pretty good, but I think there is some serious over-confidence from Carlton supporters. This is not passing judgement on who will win. Carlton are deceptively good just now. But some of the things mentioned such as White has had one goal kicked on him (he has played how many games, three? Plus a Carlton guy told me he might get dropped!), Gartlett has only played a couple of games this season, Carlton forwards quicker and better than C'wood backline (C'wood backline is not that tall! Until last week Reid had played one game and that was Brown's first. C'wood backline is small and fast and the reason we are winning games so easily!).

Carlton may win, they should push us, a better test than Hawthorn and Essendon, but Collingwood have earnt the right to be favourites. Lets not forget carlton were eating their own when they lost to Essendon and Geelong hardly were at their best last week. Good win, take nothing away from you guys, but Collingwood clear favourites. Once again, so there are no angry responses, Carlton could easily get up and win. But the runs are on the board (C'wood window now, Carlton emerging to be one of the top teams in the nect 4 years)

 

[Malifice]

We are a top, top side this year with potential that dwarfs Carlton. If we are both playing well (well, not great, not mediocre, just we both come out to play) we are a better team by such a distance it's not even funny.

I would argue that our 'potential' is better.

Collingwood in 2010 have the 5th oldest list in the AFL (23.51 average years) while Carlton have the 5th youngest (at 22.67 average years).

For comparison, the Dogs top that list at 24.14 and the Tigers are at the bottom at 22.51 years.

You guys are also the 3rd most experienced side in the AFL with an average games per player of 70.85. The Dogs top that list at 74.46 games per player.

Carlton on the other hand average 50.65 games per player. Again for comparison the Tigers (least experienced side in the AFL) average 44.67 games per player.

http://afl.allthestats.com/teams/teamlistavgs.php

It explains your recruiting/ trading policy last year od stocking up on experienced players (Jolly/ Ball).

Malthouse sees your window open, and wants to capitalise on a shaky St Kilda/ Geelong in his final year as coach (and with a developed, mature and experienced team).

Carlton are in a toatally diiferent phase. Our window isnt even open yet.

Hell. We're happy just playing finals at this stage.

How, how, how Carlton fans can consider themselves a better team is beyond me.

We dont consider outselves a better team... at the moment.

But in a few years we will be.

Consider (ages current as to 29 April 2010):

Murphy: 23 years old
Gibbs: 22 years old
Kruezer: 21 years old
Yarran: 19 years old
Jamison: 23 years old
Betts: 23 years old
Bower: 22 years old
Russell: 23 years old
Joseph: 20 years old
Lucas: 18 years old
Garlett: 20 years old
Henderson: 20 years old
Warnock: 23 years old
Hampson: 22 years old
McLean: 24 years old

Waite, Judd, Simpson are 27, 26 and 25 respectively.

For the record, our oldest players are Scotland (29), Houlihan (28) and Wiggins, Waite and Ohailpin (27).

Of those five, Scotland has been very handy (thanks for him by the way) and Waite is fantastic player, but really, we could lose those 5 from our side tommorow and it would not be that big a deal.

We finished 7th last year, and look on target to finish somewhere around that spot again this year notwithstanding the loss of Fevola and Stevens.

Come around 2013 (like it or not) we are going to be a major force.

Someone enlighten me please. This is 100% genuine, and it is our board, I'm not trying to incite anything from any other fans... I just honestly don't see it.

I hope I helped.

 

[Old Spice]

Ha. The real talent in our team is with the youth. A few more years left in Didak, Medhurst and Davis, but outside of those three, there's not much silk at the top age bracket.

The real gold-dust is with those 26 and under like Pendles, Thomas, Swan, Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Harry, Shaw, Maxwell, Cloke etc. We just keep picking good kids and bringing them through an awesome system like mars bars off a conveyor belt.

Oh, and when Free Agency comes in in a few years, we'll grab Kruezer too after he's finished his 7 year term at Carlton.

 

[Malifice]

Ha. The real talent in our team is with the youth. A few more years left in Didak, Medhurst and Davis, but outside of those three, there's not much silk at the top age bracket.

Brown, Davis, Fraser, Jolly, Didak, Johnson, Lockyer, Medhurst, OBree and Prestigiacomo are all aged between 27-32.

Thats ten players 27+ to our three.

The real gold-dust is with those 26 and under like Pendles, Thomas, Swan, Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Harry, Shaw, Maxwell, Cloke etc. We just keep picking good kids and bringing them through an awesome system like mars bars off a conveyor belt.

Swan and Maxwell are both 26. At the very least offest by Judd and Simpson (26 and 25 respectively).

That leaves you with young talent comprised of:

Brown, Pendles, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Harry, Shaw, Cloke, and Anthony all 19-24.

Compare to:

Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Yarran, Lucas, Jamison, Betts, Bower, Russell, Jospeh, Garlett, Henderson, Warnock, Mclean, Hampson... all 18 - 24 years old.

You're clearly the better and more experienced side at the moment, but surely you're not seriously comparing your young talent with ours?

 

[Malifice]

Awesome, Carlton have their own KissStephanie.

List a bunch of young kids ages and act like that'll mean you'll be a potent force in the future...

You're misreading my post.

We have more young talented kids. Thus the higher potential.

Gibbs, Murphy, Kruezer, Lucas, Yarran etc.

Compare: Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Cloke, Brown etc.

Im not dissing your players in any way, but not many would suggest that Collingwoods young players have as much talent and future potential as Carltons.

As unbiased as I can be, if I had to slot either group of those young players in my side id take the Carlton five over the Collingwood five.

Your top end mature players (the 26-30 year olds) are more important to your side (and much better players mostly) than ours are.

 

[Darkdayz]

Brown, Davis, Fraser, Jolly, Didak, Johnson, Lockyer, Medhurst, OBree and Prestigiacomo are all aged between 27-32.

Thats ten players 27+ to our three.



Swan and Maxwell are both 26. At the very least offest by Judd and Simpson (26 and 25 respectively).

That leaves you with young talent comprised of:

Brown, Pendles, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Harry, Shaw, Cloke, and Anthony all 19-24.

Compare to:

Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Yarran, Lucas, Jamison, Betts, Bower, Russell, Jospeh, Garlett, Henderson, Warnock, Mclean, Hampson... all 18 - 24 years old.

You're clearly the better and more experienced side at the moment, but surely you're not seriously comparing your young talent with ours?

lol just lol, really was a nice laugh i had there.

shaw is 25 btw
and the youth looks more like:

Brown
Reid
Beams
Sidebottom
Mccarthy
Dick
Rusling [if he ever gets up]
Anthony
Wellingham
Toovey
Wood
Harry'O
Mcaffer
Blight
Dawes
Cloke
Thomas
Goldsack
Pendles

With the likes of Witts/Young/reed and a host of other NSW players all ready lined up.

Besides Blight the rest on that list are considered relatively decent players .
Ps we have a young spin that is currently playing AFL. I bet you if you actually looked at starting 22 ages you would only have a marginal advantage, oh but experience wise your guys have nothing on our kids.

 

[smiddaz123]

I bet Elijah Edwards is already better than Betts, Yarran and Garlett.

 

[robertg22]

Brown, Davis, Fraser, Jolly, Didak, Johnson, Lockyer, Medhurst, OBree and Prestigiacomo are all aged between 27-32.

Bolded players didn't play on the weekend.

That leaves you with young talent comprised of:

Brown, Pendles, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Harry, Shaw, Cloke, and Anthony all 19-24.

Compare to:

Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Yarran, Lucas, Jamison, Betts, Bower, Russell, Jospeh, Garlett, Henderson, Warnock, Mclean, Hampson... all 18 - 24 years old.

Ok, you're able to include 'talent' like Joseph, Henderson, Warnock & Hampson but we're ignoring Pies players like McCarthy, Macaffer, Wood, Reid, Dawes etc?

 

[DoubleO7]

Collingwood in 2010 have the 5th oldest list in the AFL (23.51 average years) while Carlton have the 5th youngest (at 22.67 average years).

So, there is less than a year in average age difference. Well ain't that a massive difference.

 

[Old Spice]

Brown, Davis, Fraser, Jolly, Didak, Johnson, Lockyer, Medhurst, OBree and Prestigiacomo are all aged between 27-32.

Thats ten players 27+ to our three.



Swan and Maxwell are both 26. At the very least offest by Judd and Simpson (26 and 25 respectively).

That leaves you with young talent comprised of:

Brown, Pendles, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Harry, Shaw, Cloke, and Anthony all 19-24.

Compare to:

Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Yarran, Lucas, Jamison, Betts, Bower, Russell, Jospeh, Garlett, Henderson, Warnock, Mclean, Hampson... all 18 - 24 years old.

You're clearly the better and more experienced side at the moment, but surely you're not seriously comparing your young talent with ours?

Surely you're not saying Leigh Brown, Fraser, Lockyer, Johnson and OBree are irreplacable. Presti is near the end but will be replaced by a combo of Reid / N Brown / Goldsack. Jolly we will replace post Free Agency with Kreuzer. Still a few years left with Leon (to be replaced by Dick), Medhurst (to be replaced by Maccafer) and Didak (to be replace by Jesus).

I rate only the first 3 on your list, the 3rd of whom we are pinching.

 

[Malifice]

lol just lol, really was a nice laugh i had there.

shaw is 25 btw
and the youth looks more like:

Brown
Reid
Beams
Sidebottom
Mccarthy
Dick
Rusling [if he ever gets up]
Anthony
Wellingham
Toovey
Wood
Harry'O
Mcaffer
Blight
Dawes
Cloke
Thomas
Goldsack
Pendles

With the likes of Witts/Young/reed and a host of other NSW players all ready lined up.

Besides Blight the rest on that list are considered relatively decent players .
Ps we have a young spin that is currently playing AFL. I bet you if you actually looked at starting 22 ages you would only have a marginal advantage, oh but experience wise your guys have nothing on our kids.

You'll get no argument from me that you have some talented youth.

I just feel that Carltons youth is better.

And we have more of it.

I bet Elijah Edwards is already better than Betts, Yarran and Garlett.

Yeah... no.

Wouldnt trade Yarran for Edwards. I reckon Chris will more than justify his selection at #6 in the years to come.

Bolded players didn't play on the weekend.

Ok, you're able to include 'talent' like Joseph, Henderson, Warnock & Hampson but we're ignoring Pies players like McCarthy, Macaffer, Wood, Reid, Dawes etc?

See the initial paragraph of this post.

FWIW I could have included half a dozen other 23 and younger players in my Carlton list as well.

I reckon if you did an analysis side by side of our 24 year old and younger players we would comfortably come out on top.

So, there is less than a year in average age difference. Well ain't that a massive difference.

Actually it is a massive difference.

Do you consider the Dogs, Saints, Cats and Swans lists 'old' this year?

Compare (average ages):

1. Bulldogs 24.14
2. Saints 23.95
3. Geelong 23.9
4. Sydney 23.81
5. Pies 23.51
...
12. Carlton 22.67
13. West Coast 22.66
14. North 22.63
15. Melbourne 22.61
16. Richmond 22.51

You guys are only an average of 6 months younger than the ageing Dogs, and around 4 months younger than the Saints, Geelong and Sydney.

Carlton are nearly a full year younger than the Pies (on average over all listed players) a full year and a half per player younger than the Dogs, and yet we are not even a month older on average than the 4 sides 'below' us.

The gap is quite substantial.

Also consider:

Average games experience per side as at 2010:

1. Dogs 74.46
2. Geelong 72.49
3. Pies 70.85
4. Saints 68.37
...
11. Carlton 50.65
12. Essendon 47.13
13. Melbourne 45.98
14. North 45.39
15. WCE 44.91
16. Tigers 44.67

Thats a massive difference in experience as well.

The gaps between our sides in terms of age and experience is quite substantial.

You guys are the third most experienced side (and the gap is only an average of 4 games per player between you guys and the Dogs), and the fifth oldest.

And pretty well placed for a genuine assault on the flag this year FWIW.

Like I said before, hence your recruiting last year.

Surely you're not saying Leigh Brown, Fraser, Lockyer, Johnson and OBree are irreplacable. Presti is near the end but will be replaced by a combo of Reid / N Brown / Goldsack. Jolly we will replace post Free Agency with Kreuzer. Still a few years left with Leon (to be replaced by Dick), Medhurst (to be replaced by Maccafer) and Didak (to be replace by Jesus).

Considering in the next 4 years we will only have to find replacements for the following players:

Wiggins (hack who cant get a game in our seniors notwithstanding we need talls)
Ohailpin (usefull player at best)
Houlihan (Soft as butter outside player)
Scotland (I rate, but midfeilders we have in abundance)
Waite (great player)

Nearly all of who Im sure you consider to be hacks (and could probably dig up posts where you argued as much in the past), we could replace each one of them without blinking an eyelid (Waite the possible exception).

Aside from Waite (and perhaps Scotland) do you consider any of those players I mentioned above to be of the quality of:

Didak
Medhurst
Jolly
Presti
Davis
Fraser
Lockyer
Leigh Brown
Johnson
OBree

?

 

[Black Flag]

yep, carlton: young, hung, and full of run.

 

[buzzbuzz]

I don't see the argument. Our team is slightly older, and we're winning more games (and have been for years). If we were winning less than Carlton, I see the argument. But we're not. Doesn't this show that we're on the same trajectory?

 

[Malifice]

I don't see the argument.

There isnt an argument.

Our team is slightly older, and we're winning more games (and have been for years). If we were winning less than Carlton, I see the argument. But we're not. Doesn't this show that we're on the same trajectory?

Absolutley not.

Carlton are currently finishing a rebuilding phase we started in 2004 (only 1 tall key forward to go IMO) and on the way 'up' before our window opens 2012-13.

You blokes finished rebuilding a while ago (99-06) and are currently smack in the middle of your window (alongside St Kilda and Geelong - the latter is soon to be on the way 'down' ).

 

[robertg22]

We finished rebuilding in 06? Since 07 we've had the likes of Buckley, Clement, Burns, Licuria, Rocca, Wakelin, Holland all retire (probably more of them but can't recall) and in the next two years will lose O'Bree, Presti & Lockyer. Just because we haven't spent years on the bottom begging for draft picks it doesn't mean that we haven't undergone an ongoing rebuild.

 

[danielnajdek]

1 key forward lol You dont have one at the moment.