Brian Lara, How Good Was He?

[crownie]

It is arguable whether Tendulkar and Pointing were even the best in their team. Sure Sachin gets all the praises but I rate Dravid his equal and Ganguly not much behind, and Pointing had Waugh twins, Gilchrist, and of course the GOAT in David Warner.

no it isn't...

 

[PhatBoy]

no it isn't...

It is with Tendulkar.
He was a superb batsman, but the biggest factor in India becoming something other than a joke away from home was Dravid.

 

[scotslad]

Lara for me was just simply sublime in his prime, no bowler could ever look like getting him out. it must have been demoralising for bowling attacks back then

 

[freddy mercury]

Could've pulled out his leg stump and used that to smash attacks everywhere.

 

[Lebbo73]

Could've pulled out his leg stump and used that to smash attacks everywhere.

Or his middle

 

[TassieSaint]

Amazing batsman but I honestly don't rate his 400 that highly, which sounds ridiculous but it was on an absolute road, England lost their two main strike bowlers part of the way through, and his appetite for the record ended up costing Windies a win.

 

[Coops93]

Amazing batsman but I honestly don't rate his 400 that highly, which sounds ridiculous but it was on an absolute road, England lost their two main strike bowlers part of the way through, and his appetite for the record ended up costing Windies a win.

Still scored 400 f*****g runs in a single test match innings, though.

If you don't rate the 400 how about the 501*?

 

[iluvparis]

Still scored 400 f*****g runs in a single test match innings, though.

If you don't rate the 400 how about the 501*?

Worst first class 500 ever - easily

 

[krisholio14]

My point was that Ponting and Waugh both had pretty much identical records (Ponting 51.85 from 168 Tests, Waugh 51.06 also from 168 Tests). So in terms of making runs, which is the primary measure of their worth, they were equal. Ponting was more natural and looked great, but to me, that's part of what makes Waugh a better cricketer than people give him credit for; he produced the same output despite being less talented.

The only reason those numbers stack up is because Ponting played at least two seasons too long, and did a far bit of damage to his records in the process. During the peak years of their respective careers, I know who I would have been more worried about in the batting lineup as opposing captain.

 

[PhatBoy]

Amazing batsman but I honestly don't rate his 400 that highly, which sounds ridiculous but it was on an absolute road, England lost their two main strike bowlers part of the way through, and his appetite for the record ended up costing Windies a win.

The west indies left themselves something like 150 overs to get the last 10 wickets and England cruised to 5-450. the only thing that actually gave the windies a winning chance on such a flat track (god only knows how England fell apart in their first innings) was the sheer size of the west indies score.

Dunno who else got injured besides Hoggard - all the other frontliners bowled at least 29 overs.

I think the whole thing about the 400 was basically that Hayden had taken the record, and within months Lara got it back - just because he could.

He's always said his 213 at Kingston against the Aussies was his favourite.

 

[PhatBoy]

The only reason those numbers stack up is because Ponting played at least two seasons too long, and did a far bit of damage to his records in the process. During the peak years of their respective careers, I know who I would have been more worried about in the batting lineup as opposing captain.

Or in the flipside, the only reason Ponting's numbers stack up is because Waugh.played 20 odd tests before he was good enough. it was 4 years from his debut to his first century.

 

[Doss]

His 400 was amazing, but not his best innings. Nor was the 375.

I reckon his 277, 213 and 153 were out of this world considering the circumstances. Also his series in Sri Lanka in 2001 was incredible.

 

[STFU Donnie]

His 400 was amazing, but not his best innings. Nor was the 375.

I reckon his 277, 213 and 153 were out of this world considering the circumstances. Also his series in Sri Lanka in 2001 was incredible.

That 277 remains the best innings I've seen. I was certain he'd break Sobers' record that day. It took a run out to end it. Thank you Carl Hooper!

 

[nobbyiscool]

That 277 remains the best innings I've seen. I was certain he'd break Sobers' record that day. It took a run out to end it. Thank you Carl Hooper!

It's interesting you say that, cos as much as I loved that innings I reckon his double hunj in Adelaide was the best innings I've seen in Australia.

I've argued with friends, including one of Indian descent, til I'm blue in the face about Lara, cos I still think he was a better batsman, and better to watch than both Tendulkar and Ponting (and I grew up in Launceston not far from where Ponting did and always had a soft spot for him.)

I still youtube Lara highlights occasionally. If I ever see another batsman who was as beautiful to watch as he was in good form I will consider myself extraordinarily lucky.

 

[Doss]

That 226 in Adelaide was indeed magical.

 

[krisholio14]

It's interesting you say that, cos as much as I loved that innings I reckon his double hunj in Adelaide was the best innings I've seen in Australia.

I've argued with friends, including one of Indian descent, til I'm blue in the face about Lara, cos I still think he was a better batsman, and better to watch than both Tendulkar and Ponting (and I grew up in Launceston not far from where Ponting did and always had a soft spot for him.)

I still youtube Lara highlights occasionally. If I ever see another batsman who was as beautiful to watch as he was in good form I will consider myself extraordinarily lucky.

Gower and M.Waugh were pretty pleasing on the eye when they were up and about.

 

[Damon_3388]

For some reason I always had a feeling he never performed in Australia, however looking at his record, it doesn't really look to be the case:

Tests in Australia - 19 Tests, 41.97 average (4 hundreds, 4 fifties, 4 ducks)
ODIs in Australia - 52 matches, 40.44 average (4 hundreds, 13 fifties, 7 ducks)

Down on his career numbers, but hardly a shameful record. I think the perception that he "failed" was moreso around the Windies as a unit than him individually, and because he was usually either captain or the top player, and a bit of an "individual", he copped the heat. Glenn McGrath having his number (dismissing him 15 times in Tests, and 3 times in ODIs) might contribute to perception, too.

I do distinctly remember though there was controversy in the 1996/97 ODI tri-series here where he awarded Man of the Series, and people thought he was undeserving, but even then he had a good run - 9 matches, 60.57 average (2 hundreds, 1 fifty). I think people were kind of sour that Australia (surprisingly) didn't make the finals of the series that year (won by Pakistan), and were just looking for ways to detract from the achievements of the other teams.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Gower and M.Waugh were pretty pleasing on the eye when they were up and about.

Gower's prime years probably just preceded me as a cricket fan - I'm in my early 30s, so in terms of judging players based on what I've seen, I really only start from about 1990.

I did love Mark Waugh though. As I posted in another thread, my first "real" bat was the kids version of his V100. As a keeper, I even got my mum to buy me Slazenger gloves despite no international player (to my knowledge) using them.

Lara is still in another class though, cos his beauty as a batsman would go for sessions, even days on end. Waugh's technique never quite lasted long enough (within the confines of one innings) for him to truly fill his boots with runs.

 

[ioppolo]

I remember a tri series ODI Lara played here against Pakistan...I think he scored 156 and barely had a dot ball.

 

[footyfan1978]

He's always said his 213 at Kingston against the Aussies was his favourite.

Incredible innings. Probably his best innings ever. Won them the match off his own bat against a strong Test side. Lara had his flaws but when he was on, was compelling viewing.

 

[footyfan1978]

Amazing batsman but I honestly don't rate his 400 that highly, which sounds ridiculous but it was on an absolute road, England lost their two main strike bowlers part of the way through, and his appetite for the record ended up costing Windies a win.

Probably worth twice the innings of Jason Gillespie double ton.

 

[Gough]

That 226 in Adelaide was indeed magical.

That, M.R. Waugh's debut hundred, and Gower's hundred in the 1990/91 Boxing Day Test are amongst my favourite innings I've been lucky to see live. I remember watching Neil Harvey bat in a testimonial game for Les Favell too, he was nearly sixty at the time but still moved beautifully.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Amazing batsman but I honestly don't rate his 400 that highly, which sounds ridiculous but it was on an absolute road, England lost their two main strike bowlers part of the way through, and his appetite for the record ended up costing Windies a win.

It's not like his 400 was his only good innings

 

[Schraderbrau]

When Lara was trying he was easily the best batsman of the modern era. I mean even with the good and the bad he is probably the best just for the number of times he singlehandedly one matches for the Windies.

 

[Schraderbrau]

My point was that Ponting and Waugh both had pretty much identical records (Ponting 51.85 from 168 Tests, Waugh 51.06 also from 168 Tests). So in terms of making runs, which is the primary measure of their worth, they were equal. Ponting was more natural and looked great, but to me, that's part of what makes Waugh a better cricketer than people give him credit for; he produced the same output despite being less talented.

Ponting spent his career batting at the top order. Steve Waugh spent his career batting in the middle order. It makes a big difference.