Brisbane needs help: 2016

[Marc_Remillard]

Because it is totally fair to generalise all fans opinions. I suppose all Melbourne fans were pleased they tanked to get Scully? I suppose all Melbourne fans are happier with Jack Watts over Naitanui? After all I saw a thread on it on the main board. Melbourne supporters, right?!

Not sure if you read my post properly, read the last line

 

[Happy_Neale]

Not sure if you read my post properly, read the last line

Lions fans though, led by Roylion, continue to defend the club and blame everyone and everything else for their demise. There has been a bit of a shift though, which is good to see.

So, another generalisation?

 

[Marc_Remillard]

So, another generalisation?

No, an observation.

 

[Happy_Neale]

No, an observation.

Or maybe those arguments were there all along, you just choose not to notice them. There is plenty of reasoned discussion for those who want to engage but that is seemingly beyond those who would prefer to present simple generalisations while contributing nothing to the discussion other than semantics and veiled trolling.

You pop up in all the Brisbane threads on this board as well, wouldn't have an agenda now though would you?

 

[JeffDunne]

Why can't Lions fans in this thread just stick to the topic?

The amount of personal attacks at opposition supporters commenting in this thread is ridiculous.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Or maybe those arguments were there all along, you just choose not to notice them. There is plenty of reasoned discussion for those who want to engage but that is seemingly beyond those who would prefer to present simple generalisations while contributing nothing to the discussion other than semantics and veiled trolling.

You pop up in all the Brisbane threads on this board as well, wouldn't have an agenda now though would you?

So you think I'm not allowed to have an opinion on Brisbane? This is a football forum were people aren't meant to discuss football issues, Brisbane's current plight is a big issue for the AFL so many people are going to discuss it. If you're too sensitive to read posts from others I suggest you leave bigfooty. If you don't like my posts then put me on ignore but your replies are boring and tiresome. If you have an issue with me then send me a pm but don't send the thread off topic with pathetic personal attacks.

I know it's a waste of time because you can't help yourself

 

[Happy_Neale]

So you think I'm not allowed to have an opinion on Brisbane? This is a football forum were people aren't meant to discuss football issues, Brisbane's current plight is a big issue for the AFL so many people are going to discuss it. If you're too sensitive to read posts from others I suggest you leave bigfooty. If you don't like my posts then put me on ignore but your replies are boring and tiresome. If you have an issue with me then send me a pm but don't send the thread off topic with pathetic personal attacks.

I know it's a waste of time because you can't help yourself

Personal attacks? Where was that? That comment coming from you is almost as ironic as JD chiming in, right on cue. Continue to post in Brisbane related threads if you must, I just don't get why you spend so much time trolling a club you don't support. Each to their own I guess.

 

[Proper Gander]

Because it is totally fair to generalise all fans opinions. I suppose all Melbourne fans were pleased they tanked to get Scully?

I'm not. We should have tanked for someone better

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Personal attacks? Where was that? That comment coming from you is almost as ironic as JD chiming in, right on cue. Continue to post in Brisbane related threads if you must, I just don't get why you spend so much time trolling a club you don't support. Each to their own I guess.

FCS, ok Lionheart, can we try to discuss the topic? You have only responded to the last bit which was only a small part of my post. If it helps you to actually discuss the topic and stop attacking me then I hereby apologise to you and all Brisbane Lion fans for making a terrible generalisation about them. Clearly no Brisbane fan has ever blamed anything or anyone else for their current plight? Furthermore I apologise for any previous posts or opinions I made or had that may have offended anyone.

Are you happy now? FFS

Now, let's have a go at discussing the actual topic and my post. I made several points, but the main theme is that I now agree that Brisbane are as bad as we were under Neeld and that the AFL should provide assistance to the club. At Melbourne they basically put their own man in charge who knew what he was doing to build a club capable of being competitive.

Do you agree or disagree with this view?

 

[Fatcat08]

I posted the below in the sack Leppa thread but it's probably more relevant here

They need more than that, they need to completely rebuild the club like Melbourne did.

I've seen the argument from Lion fans that they are just as bad (or more so) as we were under Neeld and deserve help. I think we can safely say that their recent results can now confirm it. The AFL have to step in and do something, the competition can't have another Neeld-esque team running around for another couple of years.

What I don't understand though is the attitude of a lot of Brisbane fans. Back during the Neeld days the Melbourne supporters as a group wanted change at the club, we wanted Neeld gone, we also wanted those at the top gone who were responsible for the decision making that got us into the mess. Schwab, Connolly, the president and the board, recruiting, all had to go and we had to start again.

Lions fans though, led by Roylion, continue to defend the club and blame everyone and everything else for their demise. There has been a bit of a shift though, which is good to see.

With any topic on BF it tends to start with extreme views on each side and then others get drawn into the conversation and the argument tends to moderate towards the middle.

I think where the reluctance to go hard for change at all levels of the lions is the fact that we've just come out of a major board reshuffle and admin turnover a number of years ago and there have been signs off the field that things have improved under Swann. Things such as finance, the general admin of the club, member engagement, media and fan content etc etc have all come a long way from where they were under Malcolm Holmes. From the outside it may not appear that way however if you are a member these things have been very noticeable. By no means are they perfect, as illustrated by our continual inability to obtain funding for new facilities, however our latest efforts involving the airport seem to be much more considered and a considerably less slap dash process than we saw with Springfield under the previous administration.

I think what is underestimated by some people is the toll that the last push to change the board and admin took on a number of members. The process which, at the last minute, was subverted by the AFL to ensure that there wasn't an EGM, left a number of those involved with the lions and The Lions Roar pretty burnt out and a bit dejected at the process undertaken and the subsequent result. There is an overall feeling amongst people that I talk to that it is the football department that needs to be changed this time and that the administration of the club can be allowed to continue its rebuild of that side of the business that was started a number of years ago. There are no white knights in Brisbane that are just going to pump significant funds into our club to help us out like there is with a number of other clubs around the league so the financial side of things will take time.

This time however I would be seeking a much better and more experienced panel for the coaching appt process as the names involved with the last one (Dean Warren, chief executive Malcolm Holmes, Brett Burton, Leigh Matthews and Leigh Schwab) leave a bit to be desired. If you also look at that list then there is only one person still involved with the club that made the last coaching decision, so to address the point above about wanting those involved gone, we've already achieved that bar Matthews, who many are now questioning whether he has the stomach for a board position given his latest comments on the club. He seems far too invested in his media career to come out and really go into bat for the club (aka like Eddie) which is what you need from a high profile board member. Whether he likes them or not his most recent comments on whether the lions deserve a priority pick were concerning and show the issue. Can you imagine if the pies were in the same situation, eddie would be saying absolutely they deserve one, not comments like its the commissions decisions. We need that strong leadership on a board level, something that he appears to be unwilling to do.

Overall there would be very few who would think anything less than a major change our football department this offseason is acceptable. You can't perform like we are and not expect change. In addition we should push for a priority pick, it would be reticent of those involved with the club if they didn't and any club in the same position would do the same.

Where the mistake is made is taking the opinions of a few and projecting them as the opinion of the majority. This is certainly not the case as the threads on this on the lions board would indicate.

 

[a mayes ing]

Why can't Lions fans in this thread just stick to the topic?

The amount of personal attacks at opposition supporters commenting in this thread is ridiculous.

Personal attacks? Pot calling the kettle black.
You have contributed very little to this thread despite the sheer number of threads you post here except by saying that our supporters are a complete rabble. Take your own advice mate, you have been told numerous times that most of our supporters know that a PP is not gonna do much unless the underlying issues are resolved first (training base, competent coaching staff etc.) I wwould hope that the AFL are aware of all these issues and resolved all of them, if they want to give us a PP to speedd up our onfield performance AS WELL AS help with our off-field structure, then great.

Tbh, l don't think we will get a PP and even if we did, it would be at the end of the 1st round.

 

[mpal6]

Why can't Lions fans in this thread just stick to the topic?

The amount of personal attacks at opposition supporters commenting in this thread is ridiculous.

You'll be best to judge personal attacks compared to anyone else. Thanks for the insight, would've missed that one.

Fairweather supporters, rabble supporters yada yada yada

 

[mpal6]

Not sure if you read my post properly, read the last line

Personal attack.
Now you are questioning someone's reading skills ?!

 

[madmug]

I think the AFL owe Brisbane big time.
The AFL took 1/2 Brisbanes support via the imposition of the Suns team. The footy market is only so big in SEQ. I mean for a RL town they only have one RL team, the broncos. The GC Titans have been a drain on the NRL so clearly even RL struggle with 2 teams in SEQ.
The AFL have let this go for too long. They arent helping the games development by letting things slip like this. The Lions need help with club facilities & some financial help to get things back on track.
They either want 2 clubs in this limited market, or they dont. Its the AFLs call.

 

[Cynic]

Give Brisbane an underground stadium to take advantage of their underground training facility.

 

[spotthedog1]

Instead of a PP the AFL should try be more creative and say give the lions there academy players at 50% or even more, dont hurt the other bottom 4 clubs by taking the player they should get.

Melbourne had an average age of 23.6 and games experience of 66
Hawthorn had 26.6 and 130

Brisbane had an average of 23 and games experience of 67
Adelaide had an average of 25 and experience of 84 games


So statistically Melbourne were LESS experienced that Brisbane on the weekend, we shouldnt be that far clear of them on the ladder and better in General
There club has more problems than a PP would ever give them

The academy discount idea has been suggested before, but when you follow it through to its conclusion, it doesn't actually offer us much.
This year we have 3 players from our academy who may get picked up. They're all in the 20-40 category. Basically, they'll be our last 3 picks. If we increase our discount, we'll end up with a nice range of picks in the 3rd to 4th round left over... and no list spots to use them.

Even if we could use them though, it wouldn't help us. We have that many 3rd and 4th rounders on our list, what we're missing is top end quality.

We have Mayes (pick 7), Rich (pick 7), Schache (pick 2), Hipwood (pick 14) and Paparone (pick 23) as our first rounders.

Now, you've compared them to Melbourne in terms of games played, but how about draft positions - particularly for the recent draftees.

For the record:
Brisbane have 5 first rounders on their list (incl Paparone). Melbourne have 13.
Brisbane have 1 top-5 pick on our list (Schache). Melbourne have 6 of them. Not including Viney.

That is - Melbourne have more top-5 picks (most of them recent) than Brisbane have in the entire first round.

Sure, there are definitely large parts of this that are Brisbane's fault - i'm not playing the blame game here - but do you see what no Lions fan thinks more picks at the end of the draft will help us? We simply don't have the top end talent.

 

[Chief]

Why can't Lions fans in this thread just stick to the topic?

The amount of personal attacks at opposition supporters commenting in this thread is ridiculous.

Cut them some slack. They are feeling a bit embattled. I have friends who never leave early, starting to leave matches early.

I am going on Saturday arvo as a member's guest and I am just keeping my mouth shut unless prodded.

 

[Topkent]

The academy discount idea has been suggested before, but when you follow it through to its conclusion, it doesn't actually offer us much.
This year we have 3 players from our academy who may get picked up. They're all in the 20-40 category. Basically, they'll be our last 3 picks. If we increase our discount, we'll end up with a nice range of picks in the 3rd to 4th round left over... and no list spots to use them.

Even if we could use them though, it wouldn't help us. We have that many 3rd and 4th rounders on our list, what we're missing is top end quality.

We have Mayes (pick 7), Rich (pick 7), Schache (pick 2), Hipwood (pick 14) and Paparone (pick 23) as our first rounders.

Now, you've compared them to Melbourne in terms of games played, but how about draft positions - particularly for the recent draftees.

For the record:
Brisbane have 5 first rounders on their list (incl Paparone). Melbourne have 13.
Brisbane have 1 top-5 pick on our list (Schache). Melbourne have 6 of them. Not including Viney.

That is - Melbourne have more top-5 picks (most of them recent) than Brisbane have in the entire first round.

Sure, there are definitely large parts of this that are Brisbane's fault - i'm not playing the blame game here - but do you see what no Lions fan thinks more picks at the end of the draft will help us? We simply don't have the top end talent.

Understandable but if the club was seriously worried about its talent levels why did you guys send pick 5 and 25 and Crisp away for Beams? I think your a better team than your showing
I just think that with a new coaching structure, and a clean out at the top the Lions could improve a hell of alot more than an extra 18 year old flanker who could bust anyway would add .. your just like Melbourne, your kids arent developing nor are your senior players playing well.. no point sending talent their until you can get your shit together
What if the AFL gave you the pick and you finished 12th next year because a new coach got Christensen and Beams back on fire

 

[spotthedog1]

Understandable but if the club was seriously worried about its talent levels why did you guys send pick 5 and 25 and Crisp away for Beams? I think your a better team than your showing
I just think that with a new coaching structure, and a clean out at the top the Lions could improve a hell of alot more than an extra 18 year old flanker who could bust anyway would add .. your just like Melbourne, your kids arent developing nor are your senior players playing well.. no point sending talent their until you can get your shit together
What if the AFL gave you the pick and you finished 12th next year because a new coach got Christensen and Beams back on fire

Hey, I absolutely agree. We overpaid for Beams. And then we only got Bastinac last year to save face after making demands from Collingwood. Traded Aish, another top 10 pick, for more 2nd rounders, then overpaid for Basti to look like we weren't bending over again. Really, it goes back to the Fev trade, where we traded out our future for one last shot at the flag.

That said, we did a board and coach clean out 3 years ago. Another coaching clean out could be on the way, but I don't see why you'd wait to see proof of life before administering the defibrillators...

I'd also agree that, if everything goes right next year, we could finish as high as 12th... I'd probably have our ceiling at about 14th, but close enough. Problem is, from there, I think we have the talent on our list to get to about 8th or 9th in 3-4 years. Then we'd have to head down the bottom again for another rebuild. We simply don't have the talent on our list. And I don't think that one more final in another decade really qualifies as an even comp. An extra top-5 pick on our list guarantees nothing, and would still leave us below average in terms of list quality (we'd be up to 3 top-5 picks on our list... Again, Dees currently at 6), but would at least make us likely to stay in that mid-ladder area for a couple of years. If the club want to make a flag tilt from that, well, they'd have to be very shrewd and effective (something we haven't seen from the Lions in a long time)... But in the meanwhile, at least there'd be some hope to sell.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Cut them some slack. They are feeling a bit embattled. I have friends who never leave early, starting to leave matches early.

Three flags in 16 years, compared to Richmond's two finals in 34. Some Brisbane supporters just aren't cut out to be footy fans.

 

[BRWB]

The issue is bigger than Brisbane IMO. Clubs like The Dees pre Roos, the Tiges horrendous drafting under Miller and even the Dogs with rhode have all stuffed up.

Just throwing picks at a club doesn't work.

IMO if a club say after four years without finals wants a PP - fine start of second rd. But under what should be an opt in system the club goes into voluntary list administration in return.

The club is admitting incompetence by asking for a PP so they should be treated as such.

By list administration, I mean the AFL must review and sign off on every trade and draft choice made by that club until that club makes finals. And if not done already, that clubs list manager, the coach and recruiter are sacked or placed on AFL performance management. One AFL veto, and the responsible party is sacked.

Harsh but AFL administration should prevent Voss, Neeld and Rhode and Miller type stuff ups. It only takes one year and it can cost a club a decade.

 

[Captivating]

North need more help than Brisbane. I think Brisbane have outperformed North over the last 1/2 of the season

 

[Righteo]

Three flags in 16 years, compared to Richmond's two finals in 34. Some Brisbane supporters just aren't cut out to be footy fans.

I think that's a touch disingenuous Ron even if it's technically true. They've made the finals once in the last 12 years and there seems to be nothing to look forward to in the future, indeed they seem to just get worse and worse They won't match Richmond's 2 in 34 because they'll fold long before that ever happens. I hope they don't get a PP for selfish reasons, reckon they'd get a pick ahead of us, but the premierships don't count for shit anymore. They're in dire straits.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I think that's a touch disingenuous Ron even if it's technically true. They've made the finals once in the last 12 years and there seems to be nothing to look forward to in the future, indeed they seem to just get worse and worse They won't match Richmond's 2 in 34 because they'll fold long before that ever happens. I hope they don't get a PP for selfish reasons, reckon they'd get a pick ahead of us, but the premierships don't count for shit anymore. They're in dire straits.

But when Richmond's in dire straits it's hilarious? We had two x 12-year stretches without finals. Yet I'd be the last to assert that my club has any right to be successful.

Not opposed to assistance re facilities and maybe even AFL-endorsed admin/coach. But enough manipulating the competition and taking from other clubs to make AFL projects successful. Far too many "point in time" decisions being made.

 

[Mayestro]

[QUOTE="Ron The Bear, post: 46049592, member: 27506"]But when Richmond's in dire straits it's hilarious? We had two x 12-year stretches without finals. Yet I'd be the last to assert that my club has any right to be successful.

Not opposed to assistance re facilities and maybe even AFL-endorsed admin/coach. But enough manipulating the competition and taking from other clubs to make AFL projects successful. Far too many "point in time" decisions being made.[/QUOTE]

No, when you were in dire straights you got Brett Deledio as a priority pick.