Brisbane needs help: 2016

[mpal6]

It's comical that anyone would think that being one of ten clubs in a market where your existence isn't guaranteed is a better situation than being in a growth market where your existence is guaranteed.

All of the moaning about being a "frontier" club is hysterical nonsense.

Every where that Mary went, Mary went, Mary went

 

[Toump Ass]

Put it this way, if the Demons and Blues were based in Queensland, they certainly wouldn't have Dom Tyson, Tom Bugg, Liam Sumner, Sam Docherty, Kristian Jaksch, Lachie Plowman etc. You can say "fix ya culcha" all you want but those players aren't at your clubs for your "culture". It's geographic and economic. And in most cases you got them for a trade price that makes academy discounts look like nothing.

Prior to having a strong board and good coaching panel, our ability to attract and retain quality players was dismal... much like it was for the Lions. "Culture" might not be the right word, but there's much more to it than geography.

Regarding academies, you are correct.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

You think we got market value? Dear god.

Yes I do

 

[John Dough]

Who thinks that a logo like this one would be a good fit for The Sunlions Football Club?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Who thinks that a logo like this one would be a good fit for The Sunlions Football Club?

lol, you just join the 3-peat lounge and now act like you run the place

 

[BRAB]

Funny thing is people aren't really that wrong when they say "it's all your fault", except maybe with the retention stuff, but whatever.

Problem is you can assign blame all you want for financial decisions the club made a decade ago but that doesn't actually work to solve the problem we face.

If somebody has a feasible model for the club to get itself out of this hole without outside assistance I'd honestly love to hear it and I'm sure the club would too. I think the reality that permeates through pretty much any evaluation of this club's prospects is that these problems we face run deep.

The harsh reality is the club can either get assistance from the AFL now or cease to exist.

"Your fault lol" isn't a valid reason to deny assistance that in every other aspect; is unequivocally called for. Just the reality of the situation.

 

[Catastic82]

Funny thing is people aren't really that wrong when they say "it's all your fault", except maybe with the retention stuff, but whatever.

Problem is you can assign blame all you want for financial decisions the club made a decade ago but that doesn't actually work to solve the problem we face.

If somebody has a feasible model for the club to get itself out of this hole without outside assistance I'd honestly love to hear it and I'm sure the club would too. I think the reality that permeates through pretty much any evaluation of this club's prospects is that these problems we face run deep.

The harsh reality is the club can either get assistance from the AFL now or cease to exist.

"Your fault lol" isn't a valid reason to deny assistance that in every other aspect; is unequivocally called for. Just the reality of the situation.

Should then be a question of if the AFL should bail out every club that makes poor choices?

Would that in the end just encourage clubs to not take responsibility for their actions and just do what they want financially knowing that the AFL will cover their debts?

The lions made their bed and they can sleep in it , clubs have struggled off feild in the past and have clawed their way back without assistance from the AFL.

The lions can do the same

 

[BRAB]

Should then be a question of if the AFL should bail out every club that makes poor choices?

Would that in the end just encourage clubs to not take responsibility for their actions and just do what they want financially knowing that the AFL will cover their debts?

The lions made their bed and they can sleep in it , clubs have struggled off feild in the past and have clawed their way back without assistance from the AFL.

The lions can do the same

No, we can't. How can you fight dwindling crowds and a shit list when the only way to fix the list will hurt the crowds (rebuild) and the only way to fix the crowds will hurt the list (trade away future for top 10 finish).

How can you fix the debt and fix the poor facilities? Surely you'd know why both aren't possible.

Difference when you're in QLD is there's no safety net. The Broncos will continue to grind us into the ground if we're left with no money and no players.

These are the facts. Ignore them, leave brisbane to fend for themselves and the club dies. Simple as that.

What lesson does that teach?

Quick edit:

I get the point you are making though! Cannot have clubs reliant on the AFL. If there is any other way I would be all for it.

 

[Catastic82]

What lesson does that teach?

Quick edit:

I get the point you are making though! Cannot have clubs reliant on the AFL. If there is any other way I would be all for it.

The AFL gave the lions plenty of concessions and money in the three peat era and look at what the club achieved. Perhaps that is the lesson of the AFL throws money and concessions at a club it will be bound to win a flag or two.

Just look at Syd and GWS atm... Which to me makes me very sceptical of the lions's agenda in asking for assistance . They have some good talent in their list and just need a better coach and actual management .


Would be very dissapointed if any AFL assistance ends up with them having a flag or two and due to the same cultural /management /excuses they squander it all over again.

Maybe the club just needs to fend for itself and if that results in its demise then so be it. The AFL is compromised enough as it is with the SYD/GC/GWS teams , just to add the lions back into that group would drain more resources.

 

[deflated]

Should then be a question of if the AFL should bail out every club that makes poor choices?

Would that in the end just encourage clubs to not take responsibility for their actions and just do what they want financially knowing that the AFL will cover their debts?

The lions made their bed and they can sleep in it , clubs have struggled off feild in the past and have clawed their way back without assistance from the AFL.

The lions can do the same

Such a grey area.

The AFL should not throw money at poorly run clubs but they're also pot committed to a national comp with 2 teams in the RL states. It is not in the AFL's interest to watch the Lions become an ongoing laughing stock as it will spill over to their shiny new GC club.

Support for the Lions is needed for the health of the comp but once the support gets to a certain level the AFL needs to have some say in running the Lions to protect their investment. Maybe its at arms length like with the Demons, making sure the off-field staff are competent; maybe its actual AFL-appointed board members and administrators.

The main problem I've got is that there really hasn't been an equalization measure to support the northern clubs which the heartland clubs will even grudgingly accept. Its plain as dog's balls that it is significantly harder to run an AFL club in Brisbane compared to Melbourne/Perth/Adelaide. Any time a NSW/QLD club has a run of success any equalization measures are perceived as unfair, correctly or not. There seems to be a concept that its okay to hover around the 4th to 10th range as long as you don't actually win anything as a NSW/QLD club. Brisbane's success was much more because of the talent brought in through the merger than any COLA or academy benefits but too bad, you've been too successful so no sustainability for you.

Short version: the Lions need help but with strings attached, certain southern clubs should suck it up and accept that equalization is required if they want a national comp (with national TV deals, etc.).

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Did an academy player steal away your wife or something as you seem to be completely obsessed. Whenever there is a thread about the academies, or even vaguely about academies you are always here, always complaining.

What a pathetic reply. This is a forum about football, what else are we meant to do here?

The funny thing is that you always reply to me in these threads, and you always resort to these pathetic replies because you have no argument.

Having an academy is an advantage, uou making personal comments aimed at me won't change that. They have a major impact on the integrity of the draft. The AFL's solution to balance the situation by giving Academiesto other clubs further destroys the integrity of the draft. We've come to the point where the draft is pointless if a club like Sydney can constantly play in finals yet can continually have first access to elite talent.

We either have a draft or we have zones, not a mish mash of the both.

Just once it would be nice if you could reply without making a pathetic personal comment

 

[Hollow Knight]

Stunning how many people adopt the predatory capitalist "sink or swim" philosophy to club survival AFTER their club was given significant assistance from the AFL.

Whoever made the GFC/Wall Street bank comparison earlier was bang on.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Have to laugh at the brisbane fans who think the afl are trying to screw them, they did everything they could to gift them three premierships

If they could just gift us a competitive performance that would be nice.

 

[Sausages]

Same goes for the claim clubs from "frontier" states can't get government support. The facts just don't back that up.

"Currently at the bottom of the ladder, the Lions are heading to the the top of the state in order to source $10 million state government funding for a new training administrative base. The meeting was supposed to happen last month, but has been pushed back."

From THIS article, Sept 2015


"The Lions are exploring other options at the Brisbane Airport and Coorparoo, but have been unable to secure any state, local or federal government funding."

From THIS article, March 22, 2016


"CEO Greg Swann said the Airport ticked all the boxes.

"From a club perspective, building a national-standard training and administration home is the key to further developing our players and staff, as well as attracting talent into the future," Swann said.

"The opportunity to create a much-needed community hub at Brisbane Airport is also really attractive.

"It will increase our engagement with fans and the local community, which is a key pillar of our club strategy."

The one catch though is the Lions still need funding.

They are working closely with the AFL and are currently in negotiations with the Brisbane City Council and Queensland and Federal government representatives. "

From THIS article, June 3, 2016

At each point, the AFL have staunchly refused to allocate more than $5 million to the project. The timeline of this process stretches back before the first quote, but for brevity I annotated it to demonstrate the notion of "facts to back up claims of government support" are purely subjective on your behalf and not validated, as per the above. The articles clearly demonstrate the difficulty the Lions face to generate government funding.

God I love research.

 

[Catastic82]

Stunning how many people adopt the predatory capitalist "sink or swim" philosophy to club survival AFTER their club was given significant assistance from the AFL.

Whoever made the GFC/Wall Street bank comparison earlier was bang on.

Yes how dare there be a different opnion than yours on a Internet forum!!!!!

If you want a circle jerk of sympathy posts for the lions, your team board will provide plenty of that.

 

[JeffDunne]

Publishing club whinging (sorry quotes) only reinforces my earlier points about how much this club whinges.

Moreton council were offering millions for a base at Burpengary. Ipswich offered to back it IIRC up to $10 million at Springfield.

As I keep saying, the club has had no concrete plans. A wish list isn't a plan. The current airport plan relies on getting funding from where exactly? The BCC don't want it there, so why on earth would they stump up cash for it?

The AFL too aren't going to sign a blank cheque if the plan doesn't make sense. Why should they cough up more than $5m without a feasible plan that provides value for money?

Brisbane and it's fans also assume there's government departments beating a path to Victorian clubs to hand over cash. That's naive and completely ignorant of the work clubs there have to do to get those grants. Councils in Melbourne are generally smaller and have tighter budgetary constraints compared to a behemoth council like the BCC. Yet somehow those clubs have it easy?

Also, and I can't stress this enough, why would councils want to subsidise anything AFL in SEQ after spending more than 5 minutes listening to the Lions whinge about how they're in an AFL wasteland?

 

[Cleric]

Yes I do

Lol then you guys robbed Hawthorn for Burgoyne. Pick 9 and 24 you got for him.
Flog.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Logan Council earlier this year committed $9m to a facility for the Roar so it's not as difficult as is being made out for non rugby league clubs to get such funding in that part of the world.

 

[spotthedog1]

this don't give brisbane any help that some espouse reminds me of the big banks in the USA when the GFC hit. they didn't like the idea of rampant social welfare but when it was their turn to get the big bail out dollars their moral high ground went out the window.

i think it is certain that the AFL will financially help the lions and help in negotiations with the aim of getting a firm announcement on the new administration and training base in the airport precinct before the end of the season. they need to up their financial support from the current $5 million though.

this would do a hell of a lot re hope for the supporter base and may help in luring a couple of trade/FA targets.

Stunning how many people adopt the predatory capitalist "sink or swim" philosophy to club survival AFTER their club was given significant assistance from the AFL.

Whoever made the GFC/Wall Street bank comparison earlier was bang on.

Off topic, but working in finance, I get annoyed at the 'big bank bailout' argument being used for any issue.

To clear up the relevant points:
- In the GFC, the banks were bailed out because if they weren't, then millions of Americans would have had their loans recalled, and bankcards would've become useless. It would've been the end of the American economy. Literally. Which, given the nature of deposits, would've been the end of the worldwide banking sector. Banks hold each others debts - one collapsing would've caused another to collapse, and eventually, the cascading nature would've collapsed society (not exaggerating). It was absolutely the right move to bail out the banks, and it wasn't the government bailing out big business - it was preventing a worldwide financial meltdown.
- The banks have paid back every single loan. These weren't hand-outs, they were loans. And they were fully repaid.
- The thing that the US big banks SHOULD be ridiculed for is the terrible state of play that they used to cause that mess - and it was largely their own fault. Sub-prime lending and it's subsequent securitisation is the big one, but there's a whole range of completely amoral practices in the US banking sector that just goes unregulated. There are issues in the Australian Banking sector, but our Banking Act prevented similar issues.

Back to the Lions - I agree with the overall point being made, just not the way it was made. We need help, because, however much people dislike it, we are not an AFL state. The word 'frontier' actually fits. In my work, we have one AFL fan (me), one soccer fan and 6 rugby league fans. In 2014, there were more viewers for the Intrust Super Cup than the AFL (I haven't been able to find 2015 figures, but as I understand it, it's worse). That's the local rugby league comp, for the record. I'd say the comparison is the VFL, but as I understand it, most Victorians can name a VFL team - most Brisbane residents couldn't name a local league team.

 

[Catastic82]

Logan Council earlier this year committed $9m to a facility for the Roar so it's not as difficult as is being made out for non rugby league clubs to get such funding in that part of the world.

Well it shows that it is possible to get funding , maybe less whinging and doing the hard yards with the local government would be a better use of the Lions's energy instead of crying to the public and the AFL to deflect from their poor performance .

 

[JeffDunne]

Back to the Lions - I agree with the overall point being made, just not the way it was made. We need help, because, however much people dislike it, we are not an AFL state. The word 'frontier' actually fits. In my work, we have one AFL fan (me), one soccer fan and 6 rugby league fans. In 2014, there were more viewers for the Intrust Super Cup than the AFL (I haven't been able to find 2015 figures, but as I understand it, it's worse). That's the local rugby league comp, for the record. I'd say the comparison is the VFL, but as I understand it, most Victorians can name a VFL team - most Brisbane residents couldn't name a local league team.

Again, whose fault is that?

Many people in Brisbane have forgotten about the Lions because they put very little effort into having their name out there. After the 3-peat, ticker-tape parades, etc, the Lions had very good brand awareness. Then they disappeared. Now more often than not when they are in the local press they're whinging about how victimised they are by Victorians and the AFL. Hardly a good message to be sending.

A few years ago when the club, under pressure from the AFL, realised how poor their brand had become in Queensland, they tried to do something about it. One of the aspects the club wanted to address was how "Brisbane" the Lions looked to people in Brisbane. Then the club got into a battle with it's own supporters over preserving the Fitzroy lion on the jumper. Counter-productive to what the club was trying to achieve.

Again I ask, whose fault is that?

The AFL have come to the party in the new media rights agreement where the Courier Mail will dedicate column space to the Lions. That concession would have cost the rest of the league millions in the deal. Yet all we hear from the Lions still is how the AFL are doing nothing when they're doing a damn sight more than their own club.

The Lions are the Lions biggest problem and it's about time Lions fans focused on the club rather than what the AFL is or isn't doing for them.

 

[TheHunterCripps]

If the AFL wants a national game, and Queensland to be part of it, then it should help the Lions.

Agree that with the earlier comments that supporters from "strong" clubs that have been given a leg up by the AFL, or federal and state governments should not expose their (our) hypocrisy.

Collingwood were gifted Olympic Park after a massive conflict of interest that saw Eddie McGuire on the AA Board vote to move AA's home base from Olympic Park to South Melbourne, and then got the state government led by Collingwood supporter John Brumby to kick in millions.

Geelong are regularly gifted millions for stadium redevelopment. Their good fortune is to have had premiers Bracks and Baillieu as their supporters making funding calls. Also, what a bonus for all concerned that it's a marginal seat.

Most clubs in Victoria have benefitted enormously from local, state and federal government handouts and pork barrelling. Hypocrisy wears club colours.

 

[spotthedog1]

Again, whose fault is that?

Many people in Brisbane have forgotten about the Lions because they put very little effort into having their name out there. After the 3-peat, ticker-tape parades, etc, the Lions had very good brand awareness. Then they disappeared. Now more often than not when they are in the local press they're whinging about how victimised they are by Victorians and the AFL. Hardly a good message to be sending.

You don't live in QLD do you. "The Lions had very good brand awareness"? Are you kidding me? Of course everyone had heard of the Lions, and even heard that they were doing well, but that doesn't mean much. You attended many Melbourne Victory games this year?

For the record, our memberships in the premiership years was:
2001 - 18,330
2002 - 22,288
2003 - 25,578

Our membership this year is 23,262, so please, continue to explain to me about AFL development in QLD.

 

[Leemas]

Again, whose fault is that?

Many people in Brisbane have forgotten about the Lions because they put very little effort into having their name out there. After the 3-peat, ticker-tape parades, etc, the Lions had very good brand awareness. Then they disappeared. Now more often than not when they are in the local press they're whinging about how victimised they are by Victorians and the AFL. Hardly a good message to be sending.

A few years ago when the club, under pressure from the AFL, realised how poor their brand had become in Queensland, they tried to do something about it. One of the aspects the club wanted to address was how "Brisbane" the Lions looked to people in Brisbane. Then the club got into a battle with it's own supporters over preserving the Fitzroy lion on the jumper. Counter-productive to what the club was trying to achieve.

Again I ask, whose fault is that?

The AFL have come to the party in the new media rights agreement where the Courier Mail will dedicate column space to the Lions. That concession would have cost the rest of the league millions in the deal. Yet all we hear from the Lions still is how the AFL are doing nothing when they're doing a damn sight more than their own club.

The Lions are the Lions biggest problem and it's about time Lions fans focused on the club rather than what the AFL is or isn't doing for them.

I don't think you'll find many lions fans who don't agree that it is the lions fault that caused this. We had a board for years more interested in how they can use the club for personal gain and poor on field results. We've now had a change of board and a change of coach yet we are still arguably in a worse off position then we were five years ago. We're else are we left to turn other than the AFL?

We've seen what they've done to help Melbourne. We have arguably been just as poor in the last ten years yet have had no priority picks, no help in getting a half decent coach and most our talented youngsters walk out (yes I know we have no one to blame but ourselves for that). However we need assistance and the only people who can give it to us are the AFL. The academies have already been watered down and will probably be further watered down in the future.

Just not sure how particularly the Melbourne supporters in this thread can claim that we've dug our own grave and we have to sleep in it when they did the exact same thing only to be dragged out by the AFL. Both Jesse hogan and Paul Roos would be at Brisbane if it wasn't for AFL intervention..... So quickly some forget that.

 

[JeffDunne]

You don't live in QLD do you.

Not sure how that's relevant.

It's simply one of many justifications Lions fans use to feel victimised. You don't have to live in SEQ to see what a disaster the Lions are.

"The Lions had very good brand awareness"? Are you kidding me? Of course everyone had heard of the Lions, and even heard that they were doing well, but that doesn't mean much. You attended many Melbourne Victory games this year?

For the record, our memberships in the premiership years was:
2001 - 18,330
2002 - 22,288
2003 - 25,578

Our membership this year is 23,262, so please, continue to explain to me about AFL development in QLD.

Membership numbers aren't a reflection of support. These days they're more a reflection of marketing. You can't really compare 2016 figures vs 2001.

Also, you might want to check the membership numbers of other clubs in 2001-3. Brisbane had more members than some Victorian clubs (including mine).