Brisbane needs help: 2016

[JeffDunne]

I don't think you'll find many lions fans who don't agree that it is the lions fault that caused this. We had a board for years more interested in how they can use the club for personal gain and poor on field results. We've now had a change of board and a change of coach yet we are still arguably in a worse off position then we were five years ago. We're else are we left to turn other than the AFL?

We've seen what they've done to help Melbourne. We have arguably been just as poor in the last ten years yet have had no priority picks, no help in getting a half decent coach and most our talented youngsters walk out (yes I know we have no one to blame but ourselves for that). However we need assistance and the only people who can give it to us are the AFL. The academies have already been watered down and will probably be further watered down in the future.

Just not sure how particularly the Melbourne supporters in this thread can claim that we've dug our own grave and we have to sleep in it when they did the exact same thing only to be dragged out by the AFL. Both Jesse hogan and Paul Roos would be at Brisbane if it wasn't for AFL intervention..... So quickly some forget that.

The vast majority of people posting in this thread agree the AFL should provide assistance.

But what's strange about that is the AFL are already providing plenty of assistance.

I know the victim mentality runs deep with the Lions but it's a nonsense to suggest the AFL aren't already providing assistance. They have $5m on the table for a training facility (with the possibility of more if it's worth it), they have agreed to fund the shortfall in football dept spending, they have secured guaranteed local media coverage for years to come, they've given you funding for a women's team when you probably don't deserve one, . . . all of which shows they are providing assistance.

The Lions need to come up with a viable plan. They also need to stop bashing the AFL whenever they get press. Stop hiring FIFO workers & favourite sons who have no idea.

It's easy to bash the AFL but surely the Lions need to get their house in order before the rest of the league pumps more money into them?

 

[Tyler Hodges]

Give them essendons pick 1 this year, Don's only getting that pick because they cheated the AFL anyhow. Swap it for the Lions second pick

 

[Sausages]

The vast majority of people posting in this thread agree the AFL should provide assistance.

But what's strange about that is the AFL are already providing plenty of assistance.

I know the victim mentality runs deep with the Lions but it's a nonsense to suggest the AFL aren't already providing assistance. They have $5m on the table for a training facility (with the possibility of more if it's worth it), they have agreed to fund the shortfall in football dept spending, they have secured guaranteed local media coverage for years to come, they've given you funding for a women's team when you probably don't deserve one, . . . all of which shows they are providing assistance.

The Lions need to come up with a viable plan. They also need to stop bashing the AFL whenever they get press. Stop hiring FIFO workers & favourite sons who have no idea.

It's easy to bash the AFL but surely the Lions need to get their house in order before the rest of the league pumps more money into them?

The money available over the $5 million on the table is ONLY offered on the condition that the venue is AFL specific. This is counter productive, since the State Government (you know, one of those organisations you claim give us heaps of help) has said ANY assistance is based on it being a multi-user scenario.

So, we have 2 offers that are counter productive to the other - yeah, that's helpful.

The fund for the footy department spending is available to ALL CLUBS, not ours specifically. So, it brings parity as opposed to extra assistance - which is the point of this thread, Do we (The Lions) need special assistance?

The guaranteed local media coverage is news to me - what exactly is the definition of this?

The funding for the women's team is completely separate to the money allocated to the BBFFC coffers - or are you suggesting we commit corporate fraud and siphon some of that the other way?

You keep banging on about a "viable plan" - so, thrall me with your insight and business acumen and propose one - rather than simply endeavouring to discredit the idea the Lions don't justify extra assistance in the vein of the other 3 non-AFL state teams.

Your argument is essentially boiled down to - "No, they don't, because I don't think they do." That's fine, you're entitled to have such an (ignorant and myopic) opinion - just don't get OPINION confused with FACTS.

But hey, it's the internet, so I expect an unimaginative and ill-thought out reply forthwith....

 

[spotthedog1]

Not sure how that's relevant.

It's simply one of many justifications Lions fans use to feel victimised. You don't have to live in SEQ to see what a disaster the Lions are.

Membership numbers aren't a reflection of support. These days they're more a reflection of marketing. You can't really compare 2016 figures vs 2001.

Also, you might want to check the membership numbers of other clubs in 2001-3. Brisbane had more members than some Victorian clubs (including mine).

The reason that it's obvious you don't live in QLD is that you were suggesting that Brisbane had substantial support in the premiership years. This is slightly true - support increases in that period. But unlike Melbourne clubs, where you always have fans waiting in the wings for your team to do well, QLD don't have that. Every new fan we pick up is a convert from another code or a young kid (which is the club's main target). AFL in Melbourne is a tradition, something that's passed down from father to son (or daughter), and that's wonderful. But we don't have that. We have a few Fitzroy supporters for who this is true, and that's a huge benefit to the Lions as a club... But we don't have that same traditional supporter base. I'm a convert from Rugby League, and you honestly wouldn't believe the crap that I cop for watching AFL. And you never answered how many Melbourne Victory games you went to last year. That's a pretty decent comparison. 3rd sport in your state, which has over 50% sports viewership of a different sport, and they won the cup last season (2014-15, not 15-16).

I'm not denying that much of this is the club's fault. But we've been down for 10 years now, and I don't see light at the end of the tunnel. We don't have the talent on our list. We hit the bottom right before the compromised drafts, and instead of getting a few top 3 picks, we got 7s and 8s, and then those kids left. I'm not denying that the club is partly to blame for that (though the AFL rules allowing players to nominate clubs to go to means we basically got bent over). But in the last 10 years, you'd assume we have got to draft some talent - right? Brisbane currently have one top-5 draft pick on our list (Schache), 2 others from the top 10, and 2 others from the rest of the first round (five players total in the first round, including Paparone, who was an EOR1 pick 23). St Kilda - your team - who have had recent grand finals any everything, have three top-5 picks, another two in the top 10, and another 5 in the rest of the first round (10 first rounders). Literally twice as many as us, and we've been worse for longer. And that's St Kilda - they're below average in terms of draft picks on their list.

You can say we need to get our house in order and blame the previous board and tell us we've brought it on ourselves. That's fine. But even a cursory look would tell you we've been working at improving our practices pretty solidly for the last 3 years. But we're starting from a long way behind, and the cash the AFL are giving us isn't even going to bring us back up to the rest of the competition.

 

[wizzard400]

First and foremost, they need new facilities, Stevie Wonder could see that.

Secondly, the AFL should follow the Melbourne blueprint and audit the entire club. Sack the toxic board and restructure the entire football department. Off field must be addressed before on field.

Thirdly, if I'm the AFL/Greg Swann, I'm sacking Justin Leppitsch at the end of the season and getting Bomber Thompson on the phone and asking "how much?"

 

[JeffDunne]

The funding for the women's team is completely separate to the money allocated to the BBFFC coffers - or are you suggesting we commit corporate fraud and siphon some of that the other way?

You really are a twit.

Whose facilities will they be using? Whose brand is Tayla Harris promoting?

Queensland over the next 5 years will be the #1 state in the country for women's football. Brisbane are being handed the benefits of many years of local and AFL support. They've done jack shit for women's football in Qld.

Having a women's team also should make discussions with local, state & federal governments easier. The Lions are so bad in those negotiations they need all the help they can get.

As for the Courier Mail agreement in the new media rights deal, google would be your friend.

 

[JeffDunne]

The reason that it's obvious you don't live in QLD is . . .

I do live in Queensland.

Have been in Brisbane for 15 years & worked here for 20 years.

So you were saying . . . ???

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yes how dare there be a different opnion than yours on a Internet forum!!!!!

If you want a circle jerk of sympathy posts for the lions, your team board will provide plenty of that.

Wow, miss the point much? What an emotive and irrational tantrum response. How did you get "how dare people have a different opinion to me" from that?

My point is that we see supporters of clubs advocating a "if you can't stay afloat on your own then your club shouldn't exist" mentality despite the fact that some of their clubs have been saved from oblivion in the past by league bailouts.

 

[spotthedog1]

I do live in Queensland.

Have been in Brisbane for 15 years & worked here for 20 years.

So you were saying . . . ???

Yep. Believable.

Look, you can keep blaming the club all you like, but at the end of the day, we've taken steps and will continue to. But we have no money, no facilities, no draft talent, and pretty much no prospects for improving... Any arguments about causes and blame is irrelevant - no one involved in getting us to this spot is still at the club, so even blaming the club is pointless. The AFL have stated that they require 18 competitive clubs. Future media deals will depend on it, and you know the AFL will protect their media deals. That being the case, Brisbane need special assistance. End of story.

 

[JeffDunne]

Yep. Believable.

Like with most things that don't validate your victim mindset, you choose not to believe it.

Why would I lie about that?

 

[Leemas]

The vast majority of people posting in this thread agree the AFL should provide assistance.

But what's strange about that is the AFL are already providing plenty of assistance.

I know the victim mentality runs deep with the Lions but it's a nonsense to suggest the AFL aren't already providing assistance. They have $5m on the table for a training facility (with the possibility of more if it's worth it), they have agreed to fund the shortfall in football dept spending, they have secured guaranteed local media coverage for years to come, they've given you funding for a women's team when you probably don't deserve one, . . . all of which shows they are providing assistance.

The Lions need to come up with a viable plan. They also need to stop bashing the AFL whenever they get press. Stop hiring FIFO workers & favourite sons who have no idea.

It's easy to bash the AFL but surely the Lions need to get their house in order before the rest of the league pumps more money into them?

You've pretty much reiterated exactly what I've said. You won't find any lions supporters who don't agree with that. However you seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about the lions. I don't see many of us crying victim nor do I see a victim mentality at the lions.

Not sure what the lions have done to personally offend you because you seem to just to be trying to take pot shots at the club and its supporters while agreeing with what the vast majority of lions posters in this thread all agree on. Yes we need stability and good decision making top to bottom. As we've been unable to do that for ten years we are asking for AFL assistance. Just like every struggling club of the modern era.

 

[JeffDunne]

You've pretty much reiterated exactly what I've said. You won't find any lions supporters who don't agree with that. However you seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about the lions. I don't see many of us crying victim nor do I see a victim mentality at the lions.

My experience with what lions supporters think is different to yours (if we're talking what's posted on BF). Most seem convinced the AFL doesn't care about them. Some even think the AFL want to run them out of town.

As for the victim mentality, did you catch your coaches post-game press conference this week? A perfect example.

Not sure what the lions have done to personally offend you because you seem to just to be trying to take pot shots at the club and its supporters while agreeing with what the vast majority of lions posters in this thread all agree on. Yes we need stability and good decision making top to bottom. As we've been unable to do that for ten years we are asking for AFL assistance. Just like every struggling club of the modern era.

If you're concerned about grass roots football in SEQ then the Lions are a hindrance not a help.

This in large part is due to the messaging of the Lions. In an effort to distance themselves from blame they trash the AFL & the potential supporters in the city where they're based. Just look at the parroting of supporters in this thread for countless examples of that.

It's incredibly frustrating for people involved in football that don't give a rat's toss about the Lions.

 

[spotthedog1]

I'll be honest, I think that the Lions have been a little bit neglected by the AFL. I don't think they want us to fold, but I reckon that with GWS and Gold Coast coming in, we got put in the margin a bit. And while the clubs in Victoria and AFL states get a lot more media attention spotlighting them, and they'd find it a bit easier to find the ear of AFL House, we don't really, so I think we got a little bit neglected. Doesn't make it the AFL's fault we're in dire straits though.

Funnily enough, this is also exactly what I took out of Leppitsch's press conference. I know every media outlet claimed he took massive shots at the AFL, and he did send them a bit of a reminder, but if you watch the full video, I don't think that was his intention. I think he was saying that with GC and GWS, and us a bit out of sight, we were a little bit too much out of mind. No great conspiracy or anything though.

If you're concerned about grass roots football in SEQ then the Lions are a hindrance not a help.

This is the area where I have to severely disagree with you - assuming that you mean "grass roots" as in community football, or junior football... If you mean general AFL support, then I'm not going to disagree. For community footy, the ladder position doesn't help, but the lions have actually made huge efforts to send players out to run clinics and support the Junior AFL clubs and all that sort of thing. I have family up the Sunshine Coast, and they get multiple Lions players out to their club at least once a season running sessions with the kids. AFLQ have also done a huge job driving that growth from the Auskick and youth angle. When I was a kid in Brisbane, the only sport you played on a Saturday was soccer. Now, AFL have huge marketshare targeting kids as the future supporters of the club. AFLQ have driven growth, and the Lions have partnered with them really cleverly to try to turn that into club support.

 

[Elixuh]

Publishing club whinging (sorry quotes) only reinforces my earlier points about how much this club whinges.

Moreton council were offering millions for a base at Burpengary. Ipswich offered to back it IIRC up to $10 million at Springfield.
...

I think we have covered the facilities stuff a few times but I'll give you a comparison hypothetical.

It's kind of like if a Victorian club was to move their facilities to...umm...let's say Seaford. They get some funding/assistance and then a few years down the track figure out its impractical and require more funding to move yet again.

For what is on offer in and around Bris, the airport plan is by far the best and it's not even a close race.

 

[JeffDunne]

I think we have covered the facilities stuff a few times but I'll give you a comparison hypothetical.

It's kind of like if a Victorian club was to move their facilities to...umm...let's say Seaford. They get some funding/assistance and then a few years down the track figure out its impractical and require more funding to move yet again.

For what is on offer in and around Bris, the airport plan is by far the best and it's not even a close race.

So a club who couldn't reach an agreement with their local council, found a solution 20km's away so they would have access to an elite training facility, somehow proves Brisbane are victims?

As for your last comment, that's just straight out Brisbane propaganda.

 

[Leemas]

My experience with what lions supporters think is different to yours (if we're talking what's posted on BF). Most seem convinced the AFL doesn't care about them. Some even think the AFL want to run them out of town.

As for the victim mentality, did you catch your coaches post-game press conference this week? A perfect example.


If you're concerned about grass roots football in SEQ then the Lions are a hindrance not a help.

This in large part is due to the messaging of the Lions. In an effort to distance themselves from blame they trash the AFL & the potential supporters in the city where they're based. Just look at the parroting of supporters in this thread for countless examples of that.

It's incredibly frustrating for people involved in football that don't give a rat's toss about the Lions.

Your personal bias is really hurting anyone actually taking you seriously. Behind the attacks and snipes are some decent points but I'm not sure why you are so combatitive for. For someone who claims to have lived in QLD your knowledge of grass roots footy and in particular your distain for the academies is alarming and I think your lying to try and get your point accross. To say the lions are a hinderance to the expansion of the game in QLD is such a load crap. I've tried being reasonable with you but your combative style is really doing you no favours.

If you new anything about footy in QLD you would know that the lions and suns academies are the best thing the AFL could have done to expand the game and help it garner respect. If you did leave in QLD for 20 years you would know how little regard was held for the sport. Growing up here being called a ****** for playing AFL during high school was common place and no one gave it a chance. The introduction of the academies and subsequent introduction of the game to a bunch of guys who otherwise would have never even looked twice at the game caused the biggest turn around in attitudes towards our great game amongst QLD schoolboys. Over night the school team went from barely being able to field 22 to having 2 teams plus extras amongst all age groups. the school competition expanded drastically and that was the last time I have heard AFL been referred to as GayFL in my life.

Not only did attitudes change but I know for a fact that clubs benefited as well as a whole bunch of blokes joined up at local clubs abandoning playing rugby which some of them were elite at (why they got selected to be part of the academy training over the summer) to play AFL. These guys aren't even that good but continue to play because they now love the game. I know many guys across multiple schools, ages and demographics who only follow the game now because they were introduced through the academy.

Also this victim mentality you claim of leppa. 1. We were severely effected by bottoming out during the introduction of GWS and the GC.
2. The knee jerk reaction to the success in 2000s means we are the only frontier club without salary cap concessions.
3. The knee jerk reaction to Heeney has already watered down our academies which is the only way we can get better through home grown talent.
To say the AFL's decisions haven't effected us is ridiculous. However claiming they are out to get us is also far fetched.

If you really are a QLDer you would know the challenges AFL faces up here. As an AFL fan you should also know how important an even competition is across the board. Strong Brisbane is important to the game and asking for a little help from the AFL to get us on the right path is not crying the victim.

 

[GuzzLG]

They've won their quota of flags for 54 years. Let's revisit in 40 years and consider some assistance if they're still struggling.

 

[Hollow Knight]

So a club who couldn't reach an agreement with their local council, found a solution 20km's away so they would have access to an elite training facility, somehow proves Brisbane are victims?

As for your last comment, that's just straight out Brisbane propaganda.

Haha, propaganda. Snort.

Us "Lions Roar" folks have been fortunate enough to have a couple of informal briefings from the Lions and AFLQ about the airport proposal and it's so far freaking ahead of the other proposed sites it's not even close.

Proximity, amenity, corporate & community partnerships, future growth potential, fan access, streamlined BAC development processes, additional revenue streams etc. It ticks so many boxes. The project is more advanced than people think too. It's great.

Burpengary would have made Seaford look like heaven.

 

[Sausages]

Haha, propaganda. Snort.

Us "Lions Roar" folks have been fortunate enough to have a couple of informal briefings from the Lions and AFLQ about the airport proposal and it's so far freaking ahead of the other proposed sites it's not even close.

Proximity, amenity, corporate & community partnerships, future growth potential, fan access, streamlined BAC development processes, additional revenue streams etc. It ticks so many boxes. The project is more advanced than people think too. It's great.

Burpengary would have made Seaford look like heaven.

TBD, you're forgetting - Jeff was there as well mate, he KNOWS all the stuff already and has pertinent insights that mere decision makers aren't privy to.

Y'know....marketing 'n stuff.

 

[Baby Duck]

Too many knuckle draggers here in Queensland. They don't appreciate sport that is actually skillful, they just want to see fat blokes crash into each other repeatedly. Scoring doesn't even matter so long as someone gets hurt.

 

[JeffDunne]

Your personal bias is really hurting anyone actually taking you seriously. Behind the attacks and snipes are some decent points but I'm not sure why you are so combatitive for. For someone who claims to have lived in QLD your knowledge of grass roots footy and in particular your distain for the academies is alarming and I think your lying to try and get your point accross. To say the lions are a hinderance to the expansion of the game in QLD is such a load crap. I've tried being reasonable with you but your combative style is really doing you no favours.

If you new anything about footy in QLD you would know that the lions and suns academies are the best thing the AFL could have done to expand the game and help it garner respect. If you did leave in QLD for 20 years you would know how little regard was held for the sport. Growing up here being called a ****** for playing AFL during high school was common place and no one gave it a chance. The introduction of the academies and subsequent introduction of the game to a bunch of guys who otherwise would have never even looked twice at the game caused the biggest turn around in attitudes towards our great game amongst QLD schoolboys. Over night the school team went from barely being able to field 22 to having 2 teams plus extras amongst all age groups. the school competition expanded drastically and that was the last time I have heard AFL been referred to as GayFL in my life.

Not only did attitudes change but I know for a fact that clubs benefited as well as a whole bunch of blokes joined up at local clubs abandoning playing rugby which some of them were elite at (why they got selected to be part of the academy training over the summer) to play AFL. These guys aren't even that good but continue to play because they now love the game. I know many guys across multiple schools, ages and demographics who only follow the game now because they were introduced through the academy.

Also this victim mentality you claim of leppa. 1. We were severely effected by bottoming out during the introduction of GWS and the GC.
2. The knee jerk reaction to the success in 2000s means we are the only frontier club without salary cap concessions.
3. The knee jerk reaction to Heeney has already watered down our academies which is the only way we can get better through home grown talent.
To say the AFL's decisions haven't effected us is ridiculous. However claiming they are out to get us is also far fetched.

Firstly, how do you know my views on the academies? I haven't mentioned them. Secondly the growth in grass roots football in SEQ has had nothing or little to do with the introduction of academies.

If you really are a QLDer you would know the challenges AFL faces up here. As an AFL fan you should also know how important an even competition is across the board. Strong Brisbane is important to the game and asking for a little help from the AFL to get us on the right path is not crying the victim.

I'm a Victorian. I live in Queensland. Frankly I've never had a problem with Qlders rubbishing Aussie Rules. They're tame here compared to Sydney.

And yes, an even competition is what most of us want. Not one where the AFL orchestrates winners and losers.

 

[Leemas]

Firstly, how do you know my views on the academies? I haven't mentioned them. Secondly the growth in grass roots football in SEQ has had nothing or little to do with the introduction of academies.


I'm a Victorian. I live in Queensland. Frankly I've never had a problem with Qlders rubbishing Aussie Rules. They're tame here compared to Sydney.

And yes, an even competition is what most of us want. Not one where the AFL orchestrates winners and losers.

The AFL orchestrated your best player to go to you! Seems to me when it suits you its fine.

 

[JeffDunne]

Haha, propaganda. Snort.

Us "Lions Roar" folks have been fortunate enough to have a couple of informal briefings from the Lions and AFLQ about the airport proposal and it's so far freaking ahead of the other proposed sites it's not even close.

Proximity, amenity, corporate & community partnerships, future growth potential, fan access, streamlined BAC development processes, additional revenue streams etc. It ticks so many boxes. The project is more advanced than people think too. It's great.

Burpengary would have made Seaford look like heaven.

Yes, propaganda.

The narrative that there's nowhere in Brisbane to develop infrastructure for an admin/training facility is patently ridiculous (which is what I was responding to).

As for Burpengary, like Seaford, it would be better than nothing. As for the Airport development, who doesn't present a good outlook & forecasts when they're trying to find other people to pay for something? I have my doubts on the location as I've stated before but it will be handy for all those FIFO workers Brisbane like to hire.

 

[JeffDunne]

The AFL orchestrated your best player to go to you! Seems to me when it suits you its fine.

Huh?

 

[Leemas]

Huh?

Nick Riewoldt should have been a lion.