Brisbane needs help

[MF]

It's called that...but its actually a retention allowance. And perhaps also works as an "attraction allowance".

I don't disagree with the allowance at all. However I'm amazed that all of all the clubs in developing markets, Brisbane are the only ones not to have a such an allowance.

Yep. I've said this for years. All NSW/QLD clubs should receive a retention allowance as battling the go home factor is a serious issue when clubs are struggling on-field. CoL is a smaller issue IMO.

The AFL screwed up royally when they let McGuire's whinging dictate their decisions and removed the allowance from the Lions.

 

[Jade]

Yep. I've said this for years. All NSW/QLD clubs should receive a retention allowance as battling the go home factor is a serious issue when clubs are struggling on-field. CoL is a smaller issue IMO.

The AFL screwed up royally when they let McGuire's whinging dictate their decisions and removed the allowance from the Lions.

No they should not.

There are other ways (as described in this thread) to help retention without allowing a sanctioned imbalance such as the COLA.

 

[MF]

No they should not.

There are other ways (as described in this thread) to help retention without allowing a sanctioned imbalance such as the COLA.

No, you're wrong.

 

[Jade]

No, you're wrong.

No, like all Swans fans you are desperate to justify the existence of the COLA.

We have seen, now on THREE separate occasions what the current system for retention has done/is doing to the northern clubs.

1. The Brisbane Lions Flags
2. Sydney's recruitment of Tippett/Franklin
3. The exodus from Brisbane.

In short, it encourages extended success via attraction of stars or easy retention of an otherwise unsustainable list at one end - and on the other encourages abandonment and dire straits.

Now, I would bet we are almost certain to see a '4' on that list - Sydney's list will be crippled in 4-5 years. However there is not much point arguing certainties over a future event.

 

[Happy_Neale]

No, like all Swans fans you are desperate to justify the existence of the COLA.

We have seen, now on THREE separate occasions what the current system for retention has done/is doing to the northern clubs.

1. The Brisbane Lions Flags

Typical big 4 logic, considering the factors you are ignoring:

- We didn't have the highest TPP in two of those three flag years.
- We still lost a number one draft in the same year as winning a flag.
- How poor we were just 3 years previous despite having this supposed enormous advantage of a retention allowance.
- We had a number of players on very low wages and many more who took pay cuts who could have been earning much more elsewhere.

The whole 'bought' flags for Brisbane is an absolute fallacy and does not take into account the amount of third party deals not included in the cap particularly by Victorian clubs. In fact you could probably say these deals are the equivalent of a Victorian 'retention allowance' if you were so inclined.

The big clubs are understandably self-interested in their own clubs but use the want of a 'truly equal' nation competition as a guise for screwing over less-advantaged clubs which includes those in Victoria. If they are so interested in an even competition, where is the review of the fixture? Where is the review of third-party deals? What about the fact that no big club ever plays Hawthorn in Tasmania yet Brisbane, Freo and West Coast seem to play there every year? Where is the review into these aspects which would increase fairness in the national competition?

Anyway I've cherry picked your post a bit so for that I apologise. It annoys me when I see people calling any advantage afforded to us as unfair when in reality, they are measures to get us somewhere near parity with clubs with much more advantages than us (but still behind). I for one do not want to see an EPL style league where the same four/five clubs play off every year but that appears to be the direction we are heading.

 

[replicant]

Gerard Healy is on the pro-Academy side, for what it's worth.
From his online chat:
Hi Gerard, If teams like Brisbane and Sydney cannot have Academies to develop their own talent to offset homesickness, what other solutions are possible with out upsetting Eddie?

I don't think the academies should be abandoned in any way shape or form. I think they're fantastic for footy in general

If we had have had an academy in Sydney 6 of 7 years ago we might have had a Patty Mills playing in the AFL. Each club has an ability to compete with the players in the academy by nominating for the players in the academy just like they can nominate for a Darcy Moore - who's probably a top 5 or 6 pick - but will end up at Collingwood with a much later pick

There are inequities everywhere and sometimes you have to ask 'what's good for the game?' ... just like we keep ANZAC Day as Coll-Ess as its only participants, on balance it's much better on balance to have such a standout national event that highlights the game. On balance, the academies are magnificent for our game in Sydney because we have an elite program to put 14 and 15 yr-olds in that are still deciding between footy, cricket, b'ball and tennis and if the usccess of the programs are determined by giving them a link w the local team, then I think it's a very small price to pay for what may be a slight advantage for these clubs (GWS, Syd) one year in 10 - just like Geelong had a great run w father-sons over the last decade

I know this is long but I've been thinking about this ... surely the AFL keep it as it is!

 

[wantok]

Melbourne lost a heap of players, but it was because we were a poor footy club.

The same thing is now happening to Brisbane, but they've already won three games so they're not that bad. It will be good for them to spend a half a decade on the bottom, the club needs to realize that the AFL have stopped waving their magic wand for them. Eventually they'll work out that they'll have to do it for themselves.

The AFL needs healthy Brisbane and Sydney teams for the benefit of the whole comp. National TV rights are sold on that basis . They are national. All Clubs including those in Victoria benefit from the TV rights. Brisbane have been shafted by the AFL. They are the only club north of Victorian that does not get a COLA thanks to Eddie MGuires anger. They havent had it for 10 years. Draft locally you say. Well they did not get access to elite QLD talent for 2 years with the formation of the Suns. Then came GWS and Brisbane along with the Bulldogs and Saints were unable to get access to any elite kids as 40 got taken by the Giants. Melbourne at least got some priority picks. All Victorian clubs benefit from the father son rules and the potential for third party deals and hero recognition for young players.That is a major pull factor for homesick kids. Simon Black could walk down the centre of Brisbane Mall and not be recognised. Now Mcguire wants top kill off the new Academy structure designed to accelerate the development of local talent in Qld and NSW. This type of shortsighted jealousy is killing the national growth of the game. To say keep em down for another 5 years is just sad.

 

[Inspector Malceski]

That's the whole problem, the AFL has decided to pump tens of millions into the Western Sydney market, but to fund it has removed funding from the Brisbane market.

Didn't the AFL move the funding from Brisbane market to the GC market?

Hence in Sydney, move the funding from Swans to GWS?

 

[Inspector Malceski]

The AFL needs healthy Brisbane and Sydney teams for the benefit of the whole comp. National TV rights are sold on that basis . They are national. All Clubs including those in Victoria benefit from the TV rights. Brisbane have been shafted by the AFL. They are the only club north of Victorian that does not get a COLA thanks to Eddie MGuires anger. They havent had it for 10 years. Draft locally you say. Well they did not get access to elite QLD talent for 2 years with the formation of the Suns. Then came GWS and Brisbane along with the Bulldogs and Saints were unable to get access to any elite kids as 40 got taken by the Giants. Melbourne at least got some priority picks. All Victorian clubs benefit from the father son rules and the potential for third party deals and hero recognition for young players.That is a major pull factor for homesick kids. Simon Black could walk down the centre of Brisbane Mall and not be recognised. Now Mcguire wants top kill off the new Academy structure designed to accelerate the development of local talent in Qld and NSW. This type of shortsighted jealousy is killing the national growth of the game. To say keep em down for another 5 years is just sad.

Correct.

People in Melbourne need to know 50% of the population lives in NSW/QLD and most multinationals HQ are in these states.

Note that GWS has also of big corporate sponsors and when you compare this with some smaller Vic clubs, who have not many sponsors, you can see why NSW/QLD are important markets

 

[Lensen]

Yep. I've said this for years. All NSW/QLD clubs should receive a retention allowance as battling the go home factor is a serious issue when clubs are struggling on-field.

So do they lose the retention allowance when they aren't struggling on-field?

 

[James44]

Throwing money onfield isn't the answer.

Adelaide has lost Bock, Gunston and Phil Davis in the last 3 years. Why don't they get a retention allowance?

If you have a strong offield culture and a stable club admin and board, players will stay regardless of how much money you throw at them.

Brisbane have failed to build a strong offield culture, they have an unstable football admin and board and they have poor facilities because they have cocked up the Springfield move.

Of course players want to leave. Fix that and players won't leave.

Matthew's recent comments are a deflection of the dysfunctional board he sits on.

 

[LosBeatles]

Giving them 3 premierships in a row didn't to do anything so what's the point? Do we need to rotate the premiership to a different expansion side every year just to keep them interested? Even then with 4 teams in NSW/Queenlsands now 1 flag each every 4 years wouldn't be enough to keep them satisfied

 

[whatboutbob]

Throwing money onfield isn't the answer.

Adelaide has lost Bock, Gunston and Phil Davis in the last 3 years. Why don't they get a retention allowance?

Bock and Davis obviously left in exceptional circumstances, and the club was compensated for those by the League. You can argue whether the compensation was sufficient or not, but they're not really relevant to this discussion.

That only leaves Gunston, who was drawn home like a moth to the flame. You're making our case for us.

 

[Zealbee]

Throwing money onfield isn't the answer.

Adelaide has lost Bock, Gunston and Phil Davis in the last 3 years. Why don't they get a retention allowance?

Because lots of players drafted are from South Australia and aren't at risk of going home? How many players drafted are from Queensland? Name the last time a high draft pick said they wanted to go home to Queensland??

 

[James44]

Brisbane don't hold any strategic importance to the AFL long-term.

The shiny new kids down the road have the best and highest profile player in the game. They will soon be rattling off flags in the next 5 years.

They basically will have the SE Queensland market cornered, minus a few rusted on Brisbane Lions supporters.

The Brisbane Roar are only getting bigger, the Broncos will always remain Brisbane's team and the Reds will have their niche market.

Gold Coast can virtually compete with the Titans and that's it.

There will come a time shortly when the television networks don't pay premium dollar for 9 games and that is when the Lions will be further under threat, along with the Suns cornering their market.

 

[Lion for Life]

Giving them 3 premierships in a row didn't to do anything so what's the point? Do we need to rotate the premiership to a different expansion side every year just to keep them interested? Even then with 4 teams in NSW/Queenlsands now 1 flag each every 4 years wouldn't be enough to keep them satisfied

Why is it always about the premierships? It is ridiculously tiring hearing this tired old trope.

We should and desrve to have the ability the same as every other club to retain our best young talent, that is a basic principle that comes well before winning premierships.

What people such as yourself fail to understand is that all clubs north of the border by the very nature of location have unique circumstances pertaining to retention that other clubs simply just don't face, it's nothing new and it's something that will always be a challenge for the AFL as a national competition.

 

[TedDougChris]

We have to be careful that we don't make short term fixes here.

If Brisbane need help, let's identify what they need help with and assist. If it is support and development staff, then hopefully the equalisation distributions will help in this area, as they should get additional funding from this. Increased AFL funding into the club might be possible to help reduce the go home factor. It shouldn't be further changes to the salary cap though. That needs to be evened out to give ALL clubs a fair chance, not just the big clubs in Melbourne, plus those currently flavour of the month with the AFL.

I'm not against keeping the academies. I'm not sure how we are meant to grow the game and encourage the northern clubs to stand on their own feet, without having some form of development system for juniors which these clubs can benefit from. Part of the problem is, certain clubs have been rorting the system for so long - that all clubs are now wearing the consequences.

It is hard for clubs to swallow the Swans getting yet another artificial leg up, on top of the Tippett/Frankin situation - with a bunch of really talented kids no-one else can touch. It would be different however, if the Swans and GWS were competing for the same talent. The solution might be, have one academy in Sydney - which both clubs can access (highest (closest to pick 1) draft pick wins) and the same in Qld. That way, talent in the northern states is shared more on a 'as needs basis', rather than the continuing rich getting richer situation which currently exists.

 

[Lion for Life]

Brisbane don't hold any strategic importance to the AFL long-term.

The shiny new kids down the road have the best and highest profile player in the game. They will soon be rattling off flags in the next 5 years.

They basically will have the SE Queensland market cornered, minus a few rusted on Brisbane Lions supporters.

The Brisbane Roar are only getting bigger, the Broncos will always remain Brisbane's team and the Reds will have their niche market.

Gold Coast can virtually compete with the Titans and that's it.

There will come a time shortly when the television networks don't pay premium dollar for 9 games and that is when the Lions will be further under threat, along with the Suns cornering their market.

You truly have no idea.

 

[TedDougChris]

What people such as yourself fail to understand is that all clubs north of the border by the very nature of location have unique circumstances pertaining to retention that other clubs sumply just don't face, it's nothing new and it's something that will always be a challenge for the AFL as a national competition.

While I agree, other clubs struggle to hang onto players too - just it's not a go home factor - it's the lure of high profile or the lure of the premiership.

 

[carnthemlions]

Brisbane don't hold any strategic importance to the AFL long-term.

The shiny new kids down the road have the best and highest profile player in the game. They will soon be rattling off flags in the next 5 years.

They basically will have the SE Queensland market cornered, minus a few rusted on Brisbane Lions supporters.

The Brisbane Roar are only getting bigger, the Broncos will always remain Brisbane's team and the Reds will have their niche market.

Gold Coast can virtually compete with the Titans and that's it.

There will come a time shortly when the television networks don't pay premium dollar for 9 games and that is when the Lions will be further under threat, along with the Suns cornering their market.

Long term success for teams in the GC sporting market is very difficult to achieve. The Suns won't be the first team to discover that.

No, you're wrong.

Jade is always wrong.

 

[James44]

What people such as yourself fail to understand is that all clubs north of the border by the very nature of location have unique circumstances pertaining to retention that other clubs sumply just don't face, it's nothing new and it's something that will always be a challenge for the AFL as a national competition.

You fail to understand that it's incorrect to lay the blame totally at the feet of homesickness.

Your club has been a basket case offield. You have sacked coaches, you have poor facilities and you have a poor offield culture, football admin and a dysfunctional board of directors.

As Kevin Costner said, 'Build it and they will come'. Throwing a few extra dollars at players won't solve the real issue at Brisbane, that being they are a poorly run club with a poor culture that has a board that has overseen poor decision after poor decision.

 

[Zealbee]

While I agree, other clubs struggle to hang onto players too - just it's not a go home factor - it's the lure of high profile or the lure of the premiership.

Name any team that has been hit as hard as the Lions?

 

[Lion for Life]

While I agree, other clubs struggle to hang onto players too - just it's not a go home factor - it's the lure of high profile or the lure of the premiership.

True, i have outlined what i see as the only fair and equitable solution to retention a few posts back.

 

[Zealbee]

As Kevin Costner said, 'Build it and they will come'. Throwing a few extra dollars at players won't solve the real issue at Brisbane, that being they are a poorly run club with a poor culture that has a board that has overseen poor decision after poor decision.

Explain Des Headland, a number 1 draft pick, walking out in the middle of the Premiership era then. They hardly had a poor culture then.

 

[TedDougChris]

Name any team that has been hit as hard as the Lions?

In one year it is difficult to. We lost Ward, Harbrow and Lake within a short space of time, all better credentialed players at the time of their moves, but not in the same year. The compensation we received was also terrible, given the timing of the moves. But there are other difficulties facing other clubs. I don't think a retention allowance would have helped you one bit last year. I don't think it would have kept one of those players (and I actually think you've picked a few gems as consolation). But giving you a retention allowance makes it far harder for my club to compete - which isn't fair either. So a solution that helps you and doesn't disdvantage my club is also needed.

FWIW, I'm not against the academy system being retained. I don't think that should be removed.