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Opinion Butcher

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Lets look at the SA AFL forwards. I think Walker is the only one to have kicked a higher bag in the SANFL than AFL. Schulz kicked 7 I think once, Butcher claps out at 5, Salter was kicking 6s when being played as back pocket for the power, Tom Lynch has kicked 10 in the AFL, Jenkins kicked 5 this week, JPod should be playing masters.

It simply isn't that easy for anyone to fall back and kick a dozen goals every week. It isn't. Only Buddy could give it a go, and he is a freak. More regular type players like the Riewoldt cousins, Roughead, Pav, Kennedy, Cloke, and our Sarge, wouldn't be doing it frequently.
 
I think we'd be happy if our key forwards were kicking at least 2 goals a game more often than not, like Harvey has been for the past month.
 
I think we are all aware that Butch has seemed to have lost his desire to make it. Him being played in defence to let Harvey have a go as the no. 1 forward is probably the coaches understanding that as well.

All this thread is doing now is retreading the same debate that has been going on for the past couple of seasons, except with a louder slant towards the "I told you so" from the Butch detractors.

Butch fans will still believe the same things they've always believed, whereas those who thought he was never good or going to make it will feel vindicated.

I'm a fan, will always be a fan and see him as one of the great what ifs. I believe it's just as much his fault for not having the mental toughness to make it. That's what I believe a lot of his fans were hoping would happen - it would click, the magical confidence button, and bang - he'd burst on the scene like he did again when he had no pressure.

The "he didn't get a proper run" or "he wasn't backed in" calls aren't excuses, just what we thought would be best for him to be able to get that confidence to work. If he had been backed in and didn't make it, I'm sure we would all be singing a different tune.

Anyway, is it really worth rehashing all of this over and over? Every week this thread gets bumped - good or bad performance. Let him see out the year, which looks very likely to be his final year with us, with a bit of freedom from the constant attention.
 
What this is about is people's attitude where they believe either a key forward is going to be magically gifted to us in a trade despite that literally never happening in the afl outside a freak cola 10mil payment and a trade for the best midfielder in the game , and the idea that a key forward can just waltz into the sanfl , and if they are ever going to be good they are going to do well in the sanfl , then come into the afl and never look back.

The irony of people calling for us to trade for Dixon , who has had how many games that would have seen him dropped in his short career he certainly has had some up and down games , while we are already seeing people here start to write off shaw is a kicker.

Hawkins and josh Kennedy both had very very slow starts to their careers. They were not brought into the afl side and stayed there on the merit of th game they played on a week to week basis! They were persisted with for a long time and it paid off.
 

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philthy05 said:
Walker , who is a very good forward , and had quite a good solid man build straight out , and was built for sanfl football being 192cm and good at ground level and a long kick which allowed him to get out of fifty and kick for goal from the wings got 56 goals in his sanfl season. That total includes finals , so without seeing the games exactly I think he played 20-25 games. The most dominant performance , from a good afl forward , from a guy built most suitably for the sanfl of any forward going around. Averaged around 2.2 goals a game.

Anyone who thinks that franklin , roughhead , josh Kennedy or nick Riewoldt would have averaged 4 goals a game in the sanfl needs to re-think.
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But did Walker have any bags of 6 or 8 along the way to that average ?

Ie show any glimpses of talent ?

So the argument is stick with Butch because NOBODY ever kicks big bags in the SANFL ?

Hmmmmmmmm
 
Pedro59 said:
But did Walker have any bags of 6 or 8 along the way to that average ?

Ie show any glimpses of talent ?

So the argument is stick with Butch because NOBODY ever kicks big bags in the SANFL ?

Hmmmmmmmm
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Pedro59 said:
I don't buy this argument
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Walker is a champion level AFL forward, and showed that sort of talent early. There are only a few in the league like him, and the only reason he went so late in the draft was because he was a NSW Scholarship player. He also played at Norwood as a kid in 2008, not 2014 or 2015. It was a very different SANFL with regards to matchday strategy, as I explained above.

Butch has kicked a few bags of 5. He averaged 3 goals a game for the first half of 2014 which was enough to see him leading the Ken Farmer Medal after 12 rounds or so.

If Butch had been drafted in 2007 and been relatively injury free in his first couple of years, he'd likely have been playing at AFL level because we were crying out for a Tredrea heir. But at SANFL level he would have found it a lot easier to kick goals than it is now because of the way the game is played at SANFL level. Same goes for Harvey and Shaw.
 
Pedro59 said:
But did Walker have any bags of 6 or 8 along the way to that average ?

Ie show any glimpses of talent ?

So the argument is stick with Butch because NOBODY ever kicks big bags in the SANFL ?

Hmmmmmmmm
Click to expand...

Where in that post have I made an argument to stick with butch?

The argument I've put forth is that it is very very rare for a key forward to be consistent and dominant from the reserves. And that 99% of the key forwards in the afl while good now , had to be developed patiently before they became so good.
 
Hong-Kong Phooey said:
what is the relevance between being drafted late, and being a nsw scholarship player?
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The way the system worked was that clubs could give a scholarship to a player from non-football states like NSW and they would be able to draft them with a late pick. Kind of like the old father son rule. It was a way to encourage talent developed in new regions.

Of course, the AFL forgot that Broken Hill identifies more with South Australia than NSW so Australian Rules is the sport of choice there. Adelaide took full advantage of their slip up, which is probably one of the reasons why they were slugged so hard for Tippett.
 
Hong-Kong Phooey said:
what is the relevance between being drafted late, and being a nsw scholarship player?
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IIRC, every club was able to nominate 1 NSW scholarship player in an effort to increase the number of players drafted from NSW, help them develop, then take them with their last pick in the draft. By the time the draft rolled around, he was much, much more highly rated than the pick 75 he went at. Probably an early 2nd rounder at the latest.

The Crows lucked out with a champion potential KPF from Broken Hill, this side of the Barassi line.
 

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has this system been abolished now? do we have any players out there? who in the past were our players?

cheers for the info
 
philthy05 said:
Where in that post have I made an argument to stick with butch?

The argument I've put forth is that it is very very rare for a key forward to be consistent and dominant from the reserves. And that 99% of the key forwards in the afl while good now , had to be developed patiently before they became so good.
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i do agree that the ressies is a different all game to the afl so one can be rubbish in the sanfl bu play well in the afl. but butcher seems to be rubbish in both.
 
My first post on bigfooty a decade or so ago was responding to thtis post by Ford Fairlane who was writing about a boom SA KFP junior prospect who didnt get drafted and didnt even end up on the rookie list over the next couple of years or so. Unfortunately I think the words apply to Butcher and his AFL prospective career unless he does what Ah Chee did for the second half of last year.

Lonely-hearted lovers
Struggle in dark corners
Desperate as the night moves on
Just one look
And a whisper, and they're gone
 
I'm guessing most Port supporters would describe Josh Jenkins as a hack, no arguement from me on that score, but unless he has a doppleganger I have seen him kick a couple of bags of 5 or 6 sausage rolls against the Maggies, ( from memory both times were at Alberton ), I think 1 of those hauls was in 2012, and his efforts got the blue baggers over the line in what was a fairly tight game.

From memory Butch played in at least one of those games ( it could have been both ) and didn't do a lot.
 
Hong-Kong Phooey said:
has this system been abolished now? do we have any players out there? who in the past were our players?

cheers for the info
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finished, with the introduction of the northern acadmeies, but as players who were taken were usually 15 or 16 it took a few years for them to wash thru the system until they turned 18.

We took 1 kid from western Sydney David L...... and then followed the crows with 3 from Broken Hill but none were any real chop, with only put 1 onto the rookie list for 1 year - Jordan Johns.
 

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edgie said:
He's been dropped after shit games, never to be recalled, the last 2 seasons. His shit games have been no worse statistically than Riewoldt, Franklin, Roughead, and other's shit games in their early seasons, who were not dropped. Not every forward is Cameron or Walker who comes on straight up. Remembering Butcher hasn't/has barely played a full seasons worth of games.
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Yes, I would play him for a full season in the AFL to see what happens.


If I was tanking of course...
 
Hong-Kong Phooey said:
has this system been abolished now? do we have any players out there? who in the past were our players?

cheers for the info
Click to expand...

It has been abolished now. Walker was always considered late 1st/early 2nd round range. He was originally a flanker but grew significantly in the 12 months before he got drafted. Will Langford for Hawthorn is the only other successful player from the scheme. Others that played/are playing include Ryan Davis (WC), Will Sierakowski (NM), Aiden Riley (Ade/Mel), Nathan Gordon (Syd/Rich), Jarrod Witts (Coll)

Our players were Jordan Johns (the only one to get on the actual rookie list), Dave Linsen, Harrison Cumming and Stephen O'Brien. None of them did anything.
 
Macca19 said:
It has been abolished now. Walker was always considered late 1st/early 2nd round range. He was originally a flanker but grew significantly in the 12 months before he got drafted. Will Langford for Hawthorn is the only other successful player from the scheme. Others that played/are playing include Ryan Davis (WC), Will Sierakowski (NM), Aiden Riley (Ade/Mel), Nathan Gordon (Syd/Rich), Jarrod Witts (Coll)

Our players were Jordan Johns (the only one to get on the actual rookie list), Dave Linsen, Harrison Cumming and Stephen O'Brien. None of them did anything.
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I was told that the tingles showed due diligence re Walker and visited BH on a couple of occasions to check him out.
Port on the other hand were reported to have done no more than ring a local footy identity and ask his opinion.

Maybe one of the BH posters can confirm or deny this?
 
He was, i didnt bother listing all the sydney players as half their picks were scholarship/academy players
 
Macca19 said:
He was, i didnt bother listing all the sydney players as half their picks were scholarship/academy players
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And some people thought Sydney being barred from trading in players at the end of 2014 was unfair. Heeney says hello.
 
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