By Design - The Collingwood 2023 season

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Jun 6, 2016
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Obviously up for debate, however it is becoming increasingly clear, particularly in this preceding finals series that Collingwood were pretty much always in control in their season campaign.

The early season ruck conundrum:

Just after the early rounds the Pies were without a clear no.1 Ruck, for about 6 games, life was difficult, yet somehow they managed to win games.

Enter Billy Frampton, not a known ruckman none the less competed and got the team through. No doubt this was not by design, however this team relied on close space game without ball.

Getting smashed at cb and clearances wasn't an issue coz they relied on pressure to turnover game and off to the races.

The early mo

The mid to late season 'slump'

Injuries mounting, supposed form slump, things were looking somewhat dire. Yet as Fly has alluded it wasn't all that, the game plan was still in play. That plan is by design move the ball forward at all costs, and tempo the game when needed. In short 'control' the game. That is the season overall,

The form slump? Well injuries to key players in that system started to pinch. However what has become obvious in hindsight is that this whole group from the mc to the playing squad is that they've collectively 'managed' the season. Fly has also alluded this, of course that is up for debate. None the less it does make sense.

The 'training loads'

During the slump, there was talk of 'heavy training loads', on these boards and in the media. On face value 'easily dismissed' - yep fair enough, none the less it does makes sense. Top 4 and then top 2 sewn up, teams do actually apply heavy training loads for the upcoming finals series.

We can speculate if this was by design until the cows come home, regardless, If that was the intent it certainly paid off in a high intensity and hot GF day.

'Controlling the game' Finals time.

If you look at the 3 finals this team played, it has become increasingly clear that this team has in fact tempo'd game when they needed to and went attack when needed to.

The last qtr in the QF was a glaring example, on face value. it looked the Dees had the Pies on toast! In hindsight ..... and this has been alluded to by certain Pie players that this was indeed - lock down the last qtr.

Not suggesting it was wholly and solely on the Pies terms, regardless, if you think the Pies just 'hung on in desperation' in that last qtr, well I've got some 2023 GF tickets to sell you.

Same with the PF, locked it down by deliberation, against a seriously pressure and go team in GWS, no easy feat, in fact incredibly difficult to execute!

Either either it was definitely by design!. Not by hangin in there coz they didn't deserve to be there < (popular opinion).

Yeah you can call the 'belief' a w****** system, regardless it's amazing what 'positivity' can achieve............. Next segment case in point

Not the best list in it.

Certainly not! If you think that this list is the best in it, I've still got 2023 Grand Final tickets to sell if you're interested.

IMO I could name 6 - 8 teams right now that have better lists, individually by players they have. Some of them not as balanced maybe, some definitely potentially better all over the park. Most certainly Brisbane has a better list, Melbourne and Carlton obviously, would be foolhardy to argue against that, and probably not up for debate.

We've just witnessed a dynasty team that never had the best list in their premiership years < I guess this is the point.

Either either, this competition is so so close, it's very hard to separate absolute champions to bottom 6 players in any given 23. Example, John Noble v Nick Daicos.

Well it's obvious who wins that battle, BUT in this team sport, that Johnny *n Noble is so important to the season it doesn't matter how good Nick is - becomes irrelevant.
So what the * is it then?

List is not the best, crucial injuries coming into the GF, against arguably the best list in the comp, how the * do they win it?

This team trains 'crucial moments' at training at pretty much every session, that's how they do it.

Might give me and my fellow Pie brethren heart attacks and blood pressure, still it works! Think he wants to kill me by cardiac arrest sometimes.

I'll leave that to Fly, gives a broad run down over the last two years and some snippets and how he and his team won the game.

 
Dunno, playing retrospective storyteller is the field of c-grade journos trying to make a name for themselves. Everything is obvious in hindsight and we tend to manufacture the events to suit the outcome. Richmond and their mob were the masters at this and hence why people didn't enjoy their flags in contrast to that of the Dees and Cats.
 

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Can we just have one thread where we can bow down to all things Collingwood and get it over and done with :

  • Graham Wright - draft and list guru
  • McRae - super coach who smiles a lot
  • Frampton keeping Harris Andrews goalless
...
 
Every other premiership winning year in recorded history? Just sort of happened.

The Collingwood 2023 premiership winning year? By design.
 
Every other premiership winning year in recorded history? Just sort of happened.

The Collingwood 2023 premiership winning year? By design.
What I'm stating is that the mc including the coaching panel and the playing squad have deliberately trained situations to either tempo the game or go offensive. In short control the game.

The coach himself has mentioned this many times.

So the example I used about the last qtr of the QF explains, that on face value it looked like the Dees had control of that last qtr and the Pies were hanging on in desperation.

When in fact, since then, some players have come out and alluded that it was a deliberate ploy to lock down / tempo the game.
 
What I'm stating is that the mc including the coaching panel and the playing squad have deliberately trained situations to either tempo the game or go offensive. In short control the game.

The coach himself has mentioned this many times.

So the example I used about the last qtr of the QF explains, that on face value it looked like the Dees had control of that last qtr and the Pies were hanging on in desperation.

When in fact, since then, some players have come out and alluded that it was a deliberate ploy to lock down / tempo the game.
Fly's a great coach, up there with the best in the league right now, but let's not pretend he invented the wheel.

Every club practices controlling the tempo of the game and shutting it down when appropriate and it's been a tactic since long before Fly walked through the door. The Pies were able to do it very well at times and that's great, no doubt their proficiency in that area helped them to win a flag. They appear very well coached.

But it's not some ground-breaking new take on the game and they weren't playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers. To pretend that winning a flag is as simple as practicing key moments at training is asinine. The Pies won the flag the same way every other flag has been won: hard work, training, skill, resolve, etc. and yes, despite what you may want to believe, some luck.

Trying to retcon it into some 4D strategy where they were never challenged and effortlessly dismantled sides that may have thought they were in control when they were repeatedly getting the ball into their F50 but were in fact falling into Fly's master trap only detracts from that, not adds to it.
 
The plan goes back to 2018 where we threw the GF, ensuring West Coast retained ageing stars and removed themselves from 2022-2023 contention. However, Fly has stumbled by winning this year by falling into Fagan's plan for a 2025-2029 dynasty.

What is this phrase “either either”
Um akchewally its pronounced "either either";)
 

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Fly's a great coach, up there with the best in the league right now, but let's not pretend he invented the wheel.

Every club practices controlling the tempo of the game and shutting it down when appropriate and it's been a tactic since long before Fly walked through the door. The Pies were able to do it very well at times and that's great, no doubt their proficiency in that area helped them to win a flag. They appear very well coached.

But it's not some ground-breaking new take on the game and they weren't playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers. To pretend that winning a flag is as simple as practicing key moments at training is asinine. The Pies won the flag the same way every other flag has been won: hard work, training, skill, resolve, etc. and yes, despite what you may want to believe, some luck.

Trying to retcon it into some 4D strategy where they were never challenged and effortlessly dismantled sides that may have thought they were in control when they were repeatedly getting the ball into their F50 but were in fact falling into Fly's master trap only detracts from that, not adds to it.
I didn't suggest it was 'inventing the wheel'.

Nor did I suggest it's ground breaking.

Merely observed what the coaches and players have alluded.

However it seems the popular belief among oppo fans is that it was more luck than merit.

So I'm opposing that popular belief with evidence that, the merit bit was a deliberate ploy.
 
Or... Pies won it because of:

1. Deep squad; not only a talented bottom 6, but also coaching staff identified specific roles to suit 'fringe' players better than most

2. Focused game plan; tweaks made to system but fundamental concepts were extremely clear even to an outsider. Compare that to a side like the dogs where a clear plan for transitioning the ball from D50 never emerged, nor could one predict each week the balance of talls in the forward line, nor exactly who was going to play wing or key position defence (with the exception of Jones).

3. Physical conditioning; was more obvious in the opening rounds of the season but it looks like Jarrod Wade has had a massive impact, Collingwood run out games better than any other team and manage the tempo well enough to still be able to pile on extreme pressure late in the 4th if necessary

4. Good players; don't agree with some of the assertions about Pies list being mid tier. Brisbane do compare favourably, but I think some are underrating how good of a season the likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Crisp, Maynard and Mitchell had. They each had a 3-4 periods of less impact or injury, but for 2/3rds of the season were minimum 7.5/10.

5. Improvement in weaker phases of the game; a significant difference from last year to this year, weren't able to sustain these improvements across a whole season but the first few rounds and the last couple finals we were a strong clearance team, and were able to win certain games off this dominance, similarly we won multiple games off of scores from inside 50 stoppages

6. Luck; every team in the competition relies on luck to win certain games, the premiers are usually good at increasing their luck but if you boast a combined 12pt differential across three finals luck has obviously played a part. I do agree that some of the analysis around the Melbourne game in particular was lacking insight. The Dees have set up their game for years around predictable forward 50 entries that reduce the rebound opportunities for the opposition. If you're asking for them to lower their eyes and pick out better options you're also risking playing into the hands of the best defensive 50 transition team in the comp, I would take the risk, but there was method to boring football we saw. Collingwood also play the scoreboard as we saw highlighted when Cameron put the Lions up with 5 minutes to go.
 
Nathan Buckley pointed out that Collingwood knows to push the limits in close games. Deliberately run the ball out dive on the ball causing stoppage after stoppage. They know they won’t be pinned the umpires allow leniency other teams don’t get.

Secondly their injuries this season were minimal.
 
Can we just have one thread where we can bow down to all things Collingwood and get it over and done with :

  • Graham Wright - draft and list guru
  • McRae - super coach who smiles a lot
  • Frampton keeping Harris Andrews goalless
...
Your contribution being this but in different words across all these different Collingwood threads is delicious. You clearly don’t like Collingwood being premiers. I love reading it.
 
History is written by the victors. We get this sort of revisionist dribble every year.

  • Frampton wasn’t s**t. He was holding the key defender back (wtf)
  • Mitchell wasn’t well beaten by Crowley, he was selflessly keeping Crowley out of the game (you know ol’ Ryan, match winner extraordinaire)
  • I’m sure Eagles fans have an alternate history that says Lecras was actually somehow a superstar in the 2018 grand final.

Pies won the flag the same way other teams do it. Being good in some areas, good enough that weak areas are covered, got lucky in some other circumstances, and made more good decisions than bad ones. There is nothing at all special about what Pies did in 2023.
 
Frampton wasn’t s**t. He was holding the key defender back (wtf)
Not sure how this is revisionist.

Pies won the flag the same way other teams do it. Being good in some areas, good enough that weak areas are covered, got lucky in some other circumstances, and made more good decisions than bad ones. There is nothing at all special about what Pies did in 2023.
We won a premiership, something Freo hasn’t done yet.
 

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