Can Geelong win another premiership by 2018 ?

[geelong_crazy26]

The problem is you have to add Cowan and McCarthy to that list too. That makes 6 players on the senior list that are rarely out there. No wonder we've dropped this year; the depth is horribly compromised by being effectively 4-6 players down before you start.

I don't really think that depth is our problem , I think our problem is that we are missing top end quality midfielders. We need more A grade and B grade Midfielders , none of the players we have let go to keep these injury prone players on the list fit this description.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You can be as optimistic as you like thinking every player on our list will end up being fit and that we can land half a dozen FA's and not losing anyone in the process, however the direction we've taken over the last couple of years doesn't cut it with me.
I also don't care if Freo win a flag or not and i'm not trying to prove anything, i believe that we won't win a flag by 2018 and i'm a gambler so i don't mind having a bet in my beliefs, anything wrong with that?

You need a sense of reality , no side can stay up the top for ever .No side since the AFL was formed has played in more than 8 finals series in a row , this is what we are currently on. When you factor in that in 2006 we should of made the finals and we played finals in 04 and 05 you realise how well we have done to have played finals over the past few years.

To have played in the past 3 finals series is a remarkable effort and proves what a great club we are.

 

[Live in hope]

The problem is you have to add Cowan and McCarthy to that list too. That makes 6 players on the senior list that are rarely out there. No wonder we've dropped this year; the depth is horribly compromised by being effectively 4-6 players down before you start.

And McIntosh, and Delaney (and Dawson and Read who were injured for much of previous year). 25 % of the list not on the park at all or with difficulty getting games into. Massive handicap against durable lists.

Broken record, I know - but the policy of punting on chronically injured players has to stop. This year.

 

[abet]

You need a sense of reality , no side can stay up the top for ever .No side since the AFL was formed has played in more than 8 finals series in a row , this is what we are currently on. When you factor in that in 2006 we should of made the finals and we played finals in 04 and 05 you realise how well we have done to have played finals over the past few years.

To have played in the past 3 finals series is a remarkable effort and proves what a great club we are.

I know we have played finals for the past 8 years but that all stems from the crop of players that CS inherited, but I haven't seen an urgency in replacing those players with players that can actually make it on the park.
I've seen you mention a few times that we haven't been able to pick up a healthy ruckman because there hasn't been any to pick, that's a load of crap, Hawks got Big Boy and Port got Ryder but we get duds.

We are heading in the wrong direction and I don't see the point in making finals just to lose them, by the way this thread is about whether we can make the finals by 2018 not about how many finals series's we've lost in a row and our task to win a flag by 2018 is hard enough without having the right players but it's ten fold when you haven't got the right coach and assistants, you only have to look at Bomber and who he surrounded himself with and now look at CS and who he's surrounded by, caulk and cheese.

 

[abet]

I don't really think that depth is our problem , I think our problem is that we are missing top end quality midfielders. We need more A grade and B grade Midfielders , none of the players we have let go to keep these injury prone players on the list fit this description.

Well the boled is right because if we don't have enough A and B grade players then it's plain and simple, we don't have depth.

 

[Partridge]

And McIntosh, and Delaney (and Dawson and Read who were injured for much of previous year). 25 % of the list not on the park at all or with difficulty getting games into. Massive handicap against durable lists.

Broken record, I know - but the policy of punting on chronically injured players has to stop. This year.

Yeah they need to decide whether they are a day care centre or a football club.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I know we have played finals for the past 8 years but that all stems from the crop of players that CS inherited, but I haven't seen an urgency in replacing those players with players that can actually make it on the park.
I've seen you mention a few times that we haven't been able to pick up a healthy ruckman because there hasn't been any to pick, that's a load of crap, Hawks got Big Boy and Port got Ryder but we get duds.

We are heading in the wrong direction and I don't see the point in making finals just to lose them, by the way this thread is about whether we can make the finals by 2018 not about how many finals series's we've lost in a row and our task to win a flag by 2018 is hard enough without having the right players but it's ten fold when you haven't got the right coach and assistants, you only have to look at Bomber and who he surrounded himself with and now look at CS and who he's surrounded by, caulk and cheese.

Take a deep breath, settle down and stop hyperventilating.

Yes Chris Scott inherited a great list , but coaching is made up of 2 components

1.You have be able to develop a side capable of winning a premiership
2.You need to have the tactical ability to lead that side to a premiership

Scott has already proved that he can do the 2nd as is evident by winning the 2011 premiership and with his overall win/loss record .Can he do the first and develop a side capable of winning a premiership ? he has not proven this , but he hasn't had chance yet .Thompson took 8 years to build a premiership with a stack of early draft picks.Dont forget Scott played a big role in developing the Fremantle list.

Ryder is not a good ruckman ,he is also undersized ,unreliable and often gets injured .Mcevoy , is a workman like ruckman .He was a good get for them but lets not forget st Kilda didn't want him. Too early to tell if he will be a better get than Stanley and Clark. Stanley had no problems with injuries last year at stkilda .Clark is a class above Mcevoy and has not totally broken down just yet .With that said you can only name 2 average ruckman , 18 teams in the comp, not a lot to go aorund.

Don't forget under Thompson we were 81 points down in a prelim final , 12 months later under Scott we win a premiership minus Ablett .This just shows how good a coach Scott is .

A few posters on BF keep saying that anyone could of coached that side to a premiership in 2011, than why couldn't Bomber even get us into a grand final in 2010 ?

 

[Partridge]

To have played in the past 3 finals series is a remarkable effort and proves what a great club we are.

That's where we disagree; I don't see anything remotely great in the 3 finals campaigns at all. I see a stumbling, bumbling monumental cockup. An embarrassing first round exit in 2012; a bungled effort that gave up a 20 point three quarter time lead in a Prelim final; finally a straight sets exit after finishing top 4. How any of that can be interpreted as 'great' is curious to say the least.

 

[abet]

Take a deep breath, settle down and stop hyperventilating.

Yes Chris Scott inherited a great list , but coaching is made up of 2 components

1.You have be able to develop a side capable of winning a premiership
2.You need to have the tactical ability to lead that side to a premiership

Scott has already proved that he can do the 2nd as is evident by winning the 2011 premiership and with his overall win/loss record .Can he do the first and develop a side capable of winning a premiership ? he has not proven this , but he hasn't had chance yet .Thompson took 8 years to build a premiership with a stack of early draft picks.Dont forget Scott played a big role in developing the Fremantle list.

Ryder is not a good ruckman ,he is also undersized ,unreliable and often gets injured .Mcevoy , is a workman like ruckman .He was a good get for them but lets not forget st Kilda didn't want him. Too early to tell if he will be a better get than Stanley and Clark. Stanley had no problems with injuries last year at stkilda .Clark is a class above Mcevoy and has not totally broken down just yet .With that said you can only name 2 average ruckman , 18 teams in the comp, not a lot to go aorund.

Don't forget under Thompson we were 81 points down in a prelim final , 12 months later under Scott we win a premiership minus Ablett .This just shows how good a coach Scott is .

A few posters on BF keep saying that anyone could of coached that side to a premiership in 2011, than why couldn't Bomber even get us into a grand final in 2010 ?

We have a CS thread that's been going round and round in circles for months but seeing you started on the subject here, i will just say that CS wouldn't have been the only coach with enough tactical ability to have coached a side like he inherited in 2011 to win a flag, even he said it was such a good side that it could virtually coach itself.

Yes we did lose the 2010 prelim but we also lost finals in 2012, 2013 and 2014 what happened to CS's tactical skills in those games.

Now back to why you originally started this thread for, can we win a flag by 2018. And my answer is NO we are heading more towards the bottom of the ladder than the top.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

You can be as optimistic as you like thinking every player on our list will end up being fit and that we can land half a dozen FA's and not losing anyone in the process, however the direction we've taken over the last couple of years doesn't cut it with me.
I also don't care if Freo win a flag or not and i'm not trying to prove anything, i believe that we won't win a flag by 2018 and i'm a gambler so i don't mind having a bet in my beliefs, anything wrong with that?

No, nothing wrong with that. It's just a ridiculous bet. Make it reasonable and at least lay him some odds because 2-1 on us winning a flag in the next 3 year is just stupid.

 

[Inferno]

1. Our midfield hasn't developed. Dangerfield would help immensely with this problem but we still need at least 1 or preferably 2 of Duncan, Caddy, Guthrie, Motlop (if he stays) or any other potential mid to step up to an A grade level if we want consistency. Elite midfields win premierships and we are so far off that atm that it isn't funny, but we at least have the potential to fix it if we have Danger.
2. We need ruck options. The combo of Stanley and Blicavs looks like it could work but we desperately need a backup option in case either of them aren't playing. Having injury prone hacks (Simpson, McIntosh) or playing fowards as rucks (Walker, Vardy) does not qualify as a backup option.
3. Our defence, particularly our tall defenders, are getting old and will retire within a year or two of each other. Kolo must play every match that he's available to play for the rest of the season. Landing another KPD whether through draft or trade needs to happen while Lonners and Rivers (and probably Mackie too) need to be moved on sooner rather than later as it's highly unlikely they'll be part of the next premiership team and we'd be better served by pumping matches into kids.

Fix those 3 things and we're in with a good shot, but that's much easier said then done..

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The problem is you have to add Cowan and McCarthy to that list too. That makes 6 players on the senior list that are rarely out there. No wonder we've dropped this year; the depth is horribly compromised by being effectively 4-6 players down before you start.

and to be fair. One is back playing (Menzel), 3 others are training, so out of rehab (Cowan, Vardy, Delaney), one is contracted (McCarthy) and one is unlikely to be here next season (Hmac).

But alas I agree with the comment above, it's not why we've dropped, we've been up while they've been injured but now we've slipped it's all of a sudden due to them. lol no.

We've slipped as we lack midfield A grade talent and a competitive ruckmen to stay fit.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

That's where we disagree; I don't see anything remotely great in the 3 finals campaigns at all. I see a stumbling, bumbling monumental cockup. An embarrassing first round exit in 2012; a bungled effort that gave up a 20 point three quarter time lead in a Prelim final; finally a straight sets exit after finishing top 4. How any of that can be interpreted as 'great' is curious to say the least.

When it is the 6th,7th and 8th finals appearance in a row and the club had lost so many high quality players yes it is a great achievement.

That dosent factor in that we made a prelim in 04,a semi in 05 and should of made the finals in 06.

How long did you expect us to be contending for a premiership ?
I think your ignoring were have been over the past 3 years in the afl cycle,we have been a side on the decline.
I like how you try and set high standards. Respect

 

[geelong_crazy26]

We have a CS thread that's been going round and round in circles for months but seeing you started on the subject here, i will just say that CS wouldn't have been the only coach with enough tactical ability to have coached a side like he inherited in 2011 to win a flag, even he said it was such a good side that it could virtually coach itself.

Yes we did lose the 2010 prelim but we also lost finals in 2012, 2013 and 2014 what happened to CS's tactical skills in those games.

Now back to why you originally started this thread for, can we win a flag by 2018. And my answer is NO we are heading more towards the bottom of the ladder than the top.

You dont understand that in 2012 we lost a number of really good players and age got the better of a number of others ?

From 2007-2011 we were at our peak and by far the best side in the afl , to lose both 2008 and 2010 was a disgrace.

 

[catempire]

Heard Bomber Thompson on 3AW in the car on the way down. The panel was asking him about Geelong and where they are at.

He attributes Geelong's situation and doubt over its future prospects of success to a lack of leadership and specifically a failure to draft future leaders in recent years. He was probably contrasting implicitly with the drafting under his reign. He mentioned how Ling and others were natural leaders. But he said guys like Taylor and Duncan are really quiet and not natural leaders.

They asked when Geelong could next win a flag. "Best case scenario, 3-4 years" he said.

 

[Turbocat]

Heard Bomber Thompson on 3AW in the car on the way down. The panel was asking him about Geelong and where they are at.

He attributes Geelong's situation and doubt over its future prospects of success to a lack of leadership and specifically a failure to draft future leaders in recent years. He was probably contrasting implicitly with the drafting under his reign. He mentioned how Ling and others were natural leaders. But he said guys like Taylor and Duncan are really quiet and not natural leaders.

They asked when Geelong could next win a flag. "Best case scenario, 3-4 years" he said.

Funny ...Taylor and Duncan drafted under HIS reign ...if I'm not mistaken. To me this is like taking pot shots from the cheap seats.

Sure we may have passed over a couple of players that are more natural leaders... Like when we didn't draft Dunstan. Is that we we are where we are atm? Cheap shot.

 

[catempire]

Funny ...Taylor and Duncan drafted under HIS reign ...if I'm not mistaken. To me this is like taking pot shots from the cheap seats.

Sure we may have passed over a couple of players that are more natural leaders... Like when we didn't draft Dunstan. Is that we we are where we are atm? Cheap shot.

The comments were a bit broader - Taylor and Duncan aren't natural leaders therefore there is a big imperative to draft youngsters who can quickly become leaders.

It wasn't a cheap shot. He loves the Cats.

 

[Turbocat]

The comments were a bit broader - Taylor and Duncan aren't natural leaders therefore there is a big imperative to draft youngsters who can quickly become leaders.

It wasn't a cheap shot. He loves the Cats.

Perhaps id near the emphasis in his speech... but saying things X where better when i was there sounds like a cheapy to me.
Personally I dont see how the lack of leadership options is the reason we are where we are. Sure id like a couple of leader types in. When was the last time we drafted a kid that was a Capt in the juniors?

 

[abet]

Perhaps id near the emphasis in his speech... but saying things X where better when i was there sounds like a cheapy to me.
Personally I dont see how the lack of leadership options is the reason we are where we are. Sure id like a couple of leader types in. When was the last time we drafted a kid that was a Capt in the juniors?

You didn't hear the interview so stop jumping to conclusions, in no way was he having cheap shots. I actually think that Chris Scott could do himself a favour by having someone like Bomber by his side instead of the dipshits he has now.

 

[Partridge]

Perhaps id near the emphasis in his speech... but saying things X where better when i was there sounds like a cheapy to me.
Personally I dont see how the lack of leadership options is the reason we are where we are. Sure id like a couple of leader types in. When was the last time we drafted a kid that was a Capt in the juniors?

The only one I can think of would be Horlin-Smith. Could be others.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

You didn't hear the interview so stop jumping to conclusions, in no way was he having cheap shots. I actually think that Chris Scott could do himself a favour by having someone like Bomber by his side instead of the dipshits he has now.

Yeah maybe Bomber could teach C.Scott how to become a snake and lie through his teeth?

 

[Stan The Caddy]

The only one I can think of would be Horlin-Smith. Could be others.

Caddy captained the Northern Knights but technically we didn't draft him.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Yeah maybe Bomber could teach C.Scott how to become a snake and lie through his teeth?

Pretty sure Scott has that one covered already.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Pretty sure Scott has that one covered already.

What, like when he was honest with Chappy and told him that he didn't want him anymore?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

What, like when he was honest with Chappy and told him that he didn't want him anymore?

More like when he said Hawkins' back was fine and that rest would do it no good, and then decided to rest him in the 2013 qualifying final.