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Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

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It’s worked just fine for Greg Popovich. The proof is in the results.
Pop right now is an interesting comparison.

Like Clarko his initial success came with a special group of players. Won an unexepected early title, then had a big 3 who were kind of like the Hawks best half dozen elite high drafted types (Bud, Cyril, Hodge, Roughy,).

Like Clarko his team led the way with beautiful ball movement and shooting skills (3 pointers). Just like the Hawks they are currently not doing that for some reason.

Like Clarko he saw every assistant who ever had a cup of coffee in the place hired to coach other teams with varying success, each surely taking the intellectual property with them.

Like Clarko he has never and especially now doesn't seem interested in rebuilding, to the extent of signing LMA and Demar DeRozan, both who are very un-Spurs type of players. Just as the way Frost/Scully (kicking) and Patton (forward pressure) are very un Hawthorn players.

Pop's at an interesting stage of his career and the NBA is the ultimate league where teams get punished for hanging around the middle of the standings without enough star power. For small market teams it's tank or pray for a miracle. AFL rebuilding will always require a mixture of draft, trade, free agent, state league/delist etc. But I do think there's times you have to acknowledge the need to at least re-calibrate the list and team.

The other thing that's not acknowledged is just how important the assistant coaches and other footy department support staff are. One look at Will Day tells me I still trust the Hawks recruiters, but there might be room for improvement with a lot of the other Hawks footy department staff.
 
Good luck replacing Hawkins, Selwood, Ablett and Taylor. Geelong are in the exact same position. Two can play this game.
Lucky we have three first-round draft picks this year to do something about it hey?
 
Pop right now is an interesting comparison.

NBA is very different because one or two stars make the difference. Hawthorn added Tom Mitchell who won a Brownlow in his second year and here we are writing them off for years to come. You wouldn't expect an NBA team to add an all NBA calibre player and go backwards soon after.

Spurs have bucked the trend by being competitive for 25 years, but their poor 96/97 season was an aberration with David Robinson being out for a year. That got them Tim Duncan who played for 20 years. Pop had Robinson (MVP), Duncan (MVP), Kawhi (MVP candidate, finals MVP), Parker (all star), Ginobili (all star), Aldridge (all star) etc. throughout his time as head coach. He's always made it work with what he has, but he hasn't had to coach a dud roster. Post-Kawhi they haven't been much of a threat.
 
Pop right now is an interesting comparison.

Like Clarko his initial success came with a special group of players. Won an unexepected early title, then had a big 3 who were kind of like the Hawks best half dozen elite high drafted types (Bud, Cyril, Hodge, Roughy,).

Like Clarko his team led the way with beautiful ball movement and shooting skills (3 pointers). Just like the Hawks they are currently not doing that for some reason.

Like Clarko he saw every assistant who ever had a cup of coffee in the place hired to coach other teams with varying success, each surely taking the intellectual property with them.

Like Clarko he has never and especially now doesn't seem interested in rebuilding, to the extent of signing LMA and Demar DeRozan, both who are very un-Spurs type of players. Just as the way Frost/Scully (kicking) and Patton (forward pressure) are very un Hawthorn players.

Pop's at an interesting stage of his career and the NBA is the ultimate league where teams get punished for hanging around the middle of the standings without enough star power. For small market teams it's tank or pray for a miracle. AFL rebuilding will always require a mixture of draft, trade, free agent, state league/delist etc. But I do think there's times you have to acknowledge the need to at least re-calibrate the list and team.

The other thing that's not acknowledged is just how important the assistant coaches and other footy department support staff are. One look at Will Day tells me I still trust the Hawks recruiters, but there might be room for improvement with a lot of the other Hawks footy department staff.

A few of the assistant coaches don't come across as that inspiring (but mine is not an informed opinion).
 

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Will day looks talented. Every other club has 10+ Will Days. A few years ago I could get by watching terrible performance after terrible performance knowing we had a dozen or so very promising young players. I am reasonably confident that this strategy will pay off for my club and recent on field results would support that.

Imagine only having one promising kid to give you hope that the future will be ok. One kid with two games experience.

I have been in the position as a fan where I honestly evaluated my clubs list and saw nothing left in the cupboard. Years of shit drafting, short term thinking trades and a false belief a flag was around the corner. You might deny that reality right now because you have a messiah complex and a weird version of history, where for some reason you cannot remember that your four flags were built on the foundations of drafting.

Can't wait to watch you fall.
 
Hopefully it is not a 24 year cliff and counting - yikes.

Nice to have the old Carlton schlock back.
You can deflect all you like. I've gone through some rough years, I've been open and honest about the list management failings of my club and don't feel the slightest bit of anger or defensiveness when our poor couple of decades is mentioned but nice try.

This thread is about hawthorn's list management. What do you think of the past five years on this front? Are you happy with the strategy? Are you happy with the few young players on the list?
 
I maintain what I said a couple of years ago.
The recruiting of several older players wasn't to win a flag, but to put some sort of leadership in place to develop the next round of young players.

Everyone likes to point out Hawthorns success in the draft early in Clarkson tenure, but ignore that we had the likes of Smith, Dixon, Vandenberg, barker, even Crawford there who transitioned as the club climbed up.
This team is currently at the 2003/2004 structure, and in the next couple of years will hit the draft heavily
 
You can deflect all you like. I've gone through some rough years, I've been open and honest about the list management failings of my club and don't feel the slightest bit of anger or defensiveness when our poor couple of decades is mentioned but nice try.

This thread is about hawthorn's list management. What do you think of the past five years on this front? Are you happy with the strategy? Are you happy with the few young players on the list?
Okay and lets be fair here and say Carlton are on the right track, have a good core group of players to build around and are set for the future. Chances are they won't win a flag. This is not a shot at them it is just a fact that most rebuilds don't work. Look at the Giants they have looked ready to absolutely dominate the AFL for years now and are still yet to win a flag.

Look at Adelaide they looked set in 2017 to win one or at least be well set up for the next few years, no flag.

Freo from 2012-2015 were a very good team and yet no flag.

Collingwood post 2010 have built the list again and yet no flag (possibly time for that to change)

Winning flags is bloody hard and IF the Hawks go down a full rebuild, we bottom out, hit the draft and look to blow up the entire list the chances are we won't win one. That is just how it is, criticizing the Hawks for attempting it when they had credits in the bank is stupid.
 

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Pop right now is an interesting comparison.

Like Clarko his initial success came with a special group of players. Won an unexepected early title, then had a big 3 who were kind of like the Hawks best half dozen elite high drafted types (Bud, Cyril, Hodge, Roughy,).

Like Clarko his team led the way with beautiful ball movement and shooting skills (3 pointers). Just like the Hawks they are currently not doing that for some reason.

Like Clarko he saw every assistant who ever had a cup of coffee in the place hired to coach other teams with varying success, each surely taking the intellectual property with them.

Like Clarko he has never and especially now doesn't seem interested in rebuilding, to the extent of signing LMA and Demar DeRozan, both who are very un-Spurs type of players. Just as the way Frost/Scully (kicking) and Patton (forward pressure) are very un Hawthorn players.

Pop's at an interesting stage of his career and the NBA is the ultimate league where teams get punished for hanging around the middle of the standings without enough star power. For small market teams it's tank or pray for a miracle. AFL rebuilding will always require a mixture of draft, trade, free agent, state league/delist etc. But I do think there's times you have to acknowledge the need to at least re-calibrate the list and team.

The other thing that's not acknowledged is just how important the assistant coaches and other footy department support staff are. One look at Will Day tells me I still trust the Hawks recruiters, but there might be room for improvement with a lot of the other Hawks footy department staff.

clarko rebuilt around 2010
 
Oh the Blues fans in here. Been waiting 15 long years for this hey?!!! 2 weeks ago you were flogged by the Saints. Now you're winning the flag right? All off the back of losing a game you should’ve won yesterday. That's right, shat the bed again.

Dishing out 100 point floggings to your mob was so much fun. We play you in 2 weeks in Perth anyway. A ground we've never lost at. Wouldn't surprise me if we bend you over again.

Keep hoping for the failure, but this list isn't as bad as you make out. And we've got the best coach of all time. Sorry to break it to you if you're hoping we'll just roll over. Wont happen.
 

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I know a few players agents and I can tell you that Clarko wants Ben Brown and could give up and future 2021 to get him.

Ben Brown needs silver service to be effective.. look at how he's playing this season due to North melbourne's disposal inside 50...He will not succeed IF he ever came to Hawthorn if our midfield group stays like it is now...we need midfielders that can kick the ball well more than we need Ben Brown.

We have a midfield unit of players that can't kick a drop punt or hit a target more than 30m away...What team has a worse group of midfielders that can't kick? Mitchell, Worpel, Omera, Shiels, Smith and Henderson.....Grim.
 
I maintain what I said a couple of years ago.
The recruiting of several older players wasn't to win a flag, but to put some sort of leadership in place to develop the next round of young players

Guys who have been at Hawthorn for years and played in premierships like Stratton, Shiels, Smith, Puopolo, Bruest, McEvoy, Burgoyne and Frawley couldn’t provide this leadership?
 

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Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

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