Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[threesixpio]

I suspect the answer to this thread is no if rumours around us trying to get early in this year’s draft. That said, maybe it’s bullshit

 

[threesixpio]

It was as much the way Hawthorn played as anything else. In their good wins they were all over the opposition, challenging them to get out of the back half. In working to extract the best from what he had, I felt Clarkson backed the team into a style corner. Late in the season they added scoring to the mix. If that can be sustained they will bounce back next year, but I'm still skeptical.

On a trivial note, the wooden spoon Hawks of 1965 conceded 1742 points (from 18 games). This year they scored 1742 points from 22 games. Yeah this is largely a function of modern footy, but from 1966 onwards Hawthorn have been the highest-scoring club (102.3 ppg), with the rest in a bunch under 100. They need to rediscover their attacking mojo to be a force again. I'm not sure they have the players right now to do it.

Yeah. Felt it was getting there towards the end of the season. Forward line was the biggest disappointment for 2019 but Mitchell Lewis and O’Brien started playing much better footy in the last few games which made us Hawk supporters happier.

Midfield also started being more offensive and I suspect Wingard was a big part of this

 

[hk89]

It was as much the way Hawthorn played as anything else. In their good wins they were all over the opposition, challenging them to get out of the back half. In working to extract the best from what he had, I felt Clarkson backed the team into a style corner. Late in the season they added scoring to the mix. If that can be sustained they will bounce back next year, but I'm still skeptical.

On a trivial note, the wooden spoon Hawks of 1965 conceded 1742 points (from 18 games). This year they scored 1742 points from 22 games. Yeah this is largely a function of modern footy, but from 1966 onwards Hawthorn have been the highest-scoring club (102.3 ppg), with the rest in a bunch under 100. They need to rediscover their attacking mojo to be a force again. I'm not sure they have the players right now to do it.

After Mitchell's injury I thought we still might make finals off the back of our forward line, especially with Wingard supposedly recruited as a small forward not a mid. Didn't turn out to be the case, with our forward line under performing for most of the year. Reckon our forward line is still ok, and more an issue of form than personnel. Scoring wasn't helped this year by Breust and Gunston both having down years at the same time. These were our two AA forwards from 2018, so it was disappointing to not get more out of them.

In the first half of the year, our forwards had the excuse that our mids were woeful and couldn't get the ball into them, however once that had started to correct itself in the latter part of the year, they started to become very wasteful. Should have had two wins against WC instead of one, and one win against Brisbane, hence played finals if it weren't for two of the worst displays in front of goal I've seen in a while. Breust had some very good games in the final rounds so I'm confident he can have a good 2020, but not sure sure about Gunston. He'd started to show some glimpses in the latter half, but a long way from his best.

I know we lack a recognized top level KPF target with Roughy's demise as a premier forward of the last few years (not getting Lynch was easily our biggest trade disappointed of recent years - much worse than missing out on Cogs and Shiel, even worse than successfully getting Vickery ). However O'Brien and Lewis did start to show some promise in that area. A forward line with Breust, Gunston, Wingard really should have been able to do better, but we took ages to get Wingard fit, and then needed him in the midfield. If O'Brien and Lewis continue on their 2019 trajectory , and Mitchell returning allows Wingard to spend more time as a dangerous forward, then a forward line of Breust, Wingard, Gunston, O'Brien, Lewis (and Patton if rumours are true) is far from terrible. Nash still very raw, but also showed some late season glimpses. Probably need a replacement for Poppy from somewhere in the off season. Hanrahan is ok for a 9 gamer, but is providing nowhere near the forward half pressure Poppy has given us. Poppy could perhaps go another year, but his numbers were well down on his best this year (like most of our forwards, but his decline is a bit more expected than Breust/Gunston given their age differences, and also less likely to reverse itself as a result).

I think the main problem for us next year will be our ability to withstand injury. We are still a list that requires a fairly injury free run to do well. Our best 22 should be fairly competitive next year, but injuries see us fall away faster than some other teams with an arguably worse best 22, but better depth coverage than we currently have.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Midfield also started being more offensive and I suspect Wingard was a big part of this

Agree that Wingard is a key. The old Wingard is a top 10 player in the comp.

 

[Ron The Bear]

However O'Brien and Lewis did start to show some promise in that area.

O'Brien has shown glimpses for a long time. At 26yo in March he's approaching the crossroads.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Well, I will give you one example.


Clarko trades Sam Mitchell to WCE, and Jordan Lewis to Melbourne, to make spaces to draft youth.

Who said this? Was it the pick 88 we got in return that made you make this stupid assumption? They were traded for cap space dude, allowing us to trade in established players like Mitchell, JOM, UImpey, Scrimshaw, Wingard etc

Yet, last year, Hawthorn traded out young defender Ryan Burton (who I rated as the cornerstone to your backline for the next decade) for Chad Wingard, who is much older.

3 and a half years older. Not really that much of a difference, even if it does have nothing to do with anything.

It baffles me.

Not suprised.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawks fans have resorted to arguing with Carlton fans about who's in a better place.

How the mighty have fallen.

Carlton or Hawthorn?

 

[Pessimistic]

Who said this? Was it the pick 88 we got in return that made you make this stupid assumption? They were traded for cap space dude, allowing us to trade in established players like Mitchell, JOM, UImpey, Scrimshaw, Wingard etc



3 and a half years older. Not really that much of a difference, even if it does have nothing to do with anything.



Not suprised.

the answers for you are already in this thread

 

[Pessimistic]

What about players that are contracted beyond the age of 30? Like Breust and Gunston who signed in their 20s until they are 31 or 32? Surely if your agent is worth his salt he would be negotiating a contract extension when you are 28/29.

Just arguing for the sake of it now

 

[Marcel Proust]

Lol. You've included Deledio who left at the end of 2016. Grigg was not a first rounder. Griffiths was not a first rounder. 4 of the remaining 7 will be 30 or older next year, suggesting that 3 years ago their careers were well past the half way point (unless they all do a Burgoyne).

Hawthorn have plenty of first rounders on the list, the main difference being we traded all but one of ours in. 4 of ours are 26 or younger - all traded in.



Prestia didn't move under free agency. Traded. Caddy didn't move under free agency. Traded. Nank didn't move under free agency. Traded. Nank an A grader. Lol.

You really are a numpty of the highest order, but your contributions to this thread augurs well for the Hawthorn football club. The last time you were this active in a Hawthorn related thread, was your infamous "Shane edwards is better than Cyril Rioli" thread. Hawthorn went on to grab the 3-peat that year, with Cyril winning the Norm smith, and finishing second in our best and fairest. Happy times ahead if your midas touch continues.

There was a full stop

Richmond could actually attract A grade free agents. <---- Prestia , Caddy and Nank all came across

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Lol. You've included Deledio who left at the end of 2016. Grigg was not a first rounder. Griffiths was not a first rounder. 4 of the remaining 7 will be 30 or older next year, suggesting that 3 years ago their careers were well past the half way point (unless they all do a Burgoyne).

Hawthorn have plenty of first rounders on the list, the main difference being we traded all but one of ours in. 4 of ours are 26 or younger - all traded in.



Prestia didn't move under free agency. Traded. Caddy didn't move under free agency. Traded. Nank didn't move under free agency. Traded. Nank an A grader. Lol.

You really are a numpty of the highest order, but your contributions to this thread augurs well for the Hawthorn football club. The last time you were this active in a Hawthorn related thread, was your infamous "Shane edwards is better than Cyril Rioli" thread. Hawthorn went on to grab the 3-peat that year, with Cyril winning the Norm smith, and finishing second in our best and fairest. Happy times ahead if your midas touch continues.

Oh snap I remember that!

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Lol. You've included Deledio who left at the end of 2016. Grigg was not a first rounder. Griffiths was not a first rounder. 4 of the remaining 7 will be 30 or older next year, suggesting that 3 years ago their careers were well past the half way point (unless they all do a Burgoyne).

Hawthorn have plenty of first rounders on the list, the main difference being we traded all but one of ours in. 4 of ours are 26 or younger - all traded in.



Prestia didn't move under free agency. Traded. Caddy didn't move under free agency. Traded. Nank didn't move under free agency. Traded. Nank an A grader. Lol.

You really are a numpty of the highest order, but your contributions to this thread augurs well for the Hawthorn football club. The last time you were this active in a Hawthorn related thread, was your infamous "Shane edwards is better than Cyril Rioli" thread. Hawthorn went on to grab the 3-peat that year, with Cyril winning the Norm smith, and finishing second in our best and fairest. Happy times ahead if your midas touch continues.

Did you see Shed's 3rd Q last Sat night? Blaisee's famous thread was prescient, no?

 

[HeHateMe]

Oh snap I remember that!

Better then Cyril Rioli.... Pffffffft.

 

[TylerDurden]

Not sure what Essendon have to do with this. If you want to talk about us, you should do it on one of the 3 or 4 dedicated Essendon threads on the Hawthorn board.

Just the one mate. Essendrug dopers, come smell the bullshit.

It's an all in one. Go knock yourself out.

 

[Luv_our_club]

O'Brien has shown glimpses for a long time. At 26yo in March he's approaching the crossroads.

He was at the crossroads in March 2019 and he sold his soul for a 2 meter leap, a soft pair of hands, a dead-eye shot and athleticism to burn.

He wears 23 for the Hawks. Lookout.

 

[hk89]

Did you see Shed's 3rd Q last Sat night? Blaisee's famous thread was prescient, no?

I looked up prescient in the dictionary. It didn't read "biggest backfire thread on bigfooty ever", so no I don't think it was prescient, except from the point of view that Edwards is finally playing better footy than Cyril now that Cyril has retired. Blaissee better hope Cyril doesn't pull on the jumper for St Mary's.

 

[hk89]

There was a full stop

Richmond could actually attract A grade free agents. <---- Prestia , Caddy and Nank all came across

We all know he was confused, and that he meant those were free agents. Otherwise who was he actually talking about? (He mentions in a later post he forgot to mention Tom). He was talking 2016, and Richmond had attracted which A grade free agents at that point? The fact that he was equally confused about who your first round picks were backs up his general state of confusion.

 

[hk89]

O'Brien has shown glimpses for a long time. At 26yo in March he's approaching the crossroads.

Yes, his nickname on our board from some was "Glimpses". He was probably in danger of being delisted at the end of this season if he didn't turn the glimpses into more consistent performances, and he's done that this year. Rewarded with a new 2 year contract. Went forward for the last 6 games of the year, after playing the first 10 in defence, and averaged less than half a goal less goals over that time than Lynch managed this year (2.00 vs 2.43). Become a very versatile player now that he's married his athleticism and good use of the ball by foot with marking abilities (biggest knock on him was his ability to drop almost every contested grab that came his way after looking like he'd positioned himself to gobble up the mark).

 

[blaisee]

We all know he was confused, and that he meant those were free agents. Otherwise he was he actually talking about? (He mentions in a later post he forgot to mention Tom). He was talking 2016, and Richmond had attracted which A grade free agents at that point? The fact that he was equally confused about who your first round picks were backs up his general state of confusion.

Enjoy the finals mate, points are quite clear, no interest in semantics. You have way too much time on your hands

 

[FairKouta]

Funny thing is, my Shane Edwards thread was spot on and you know it, thanks for bringing it up.,

Cyril is a class above

 

[Kipps]

Not if they face a Melbourne based club in the Grand Final

 

[Gavin Excell]

Now that the distraction of the finals is over, can we get back to the key discussion on Hawks squandering draft picks on washed up players?

 

[WWSD]

Now that the distraction of the finals is over, can we get back to the key discussion on Hawks squandering draft picks on washed up players?

What if the Hawks trade up for pick 2?

 

[TylerDurden]

What if the Hawks trade up for pick 2?

May have to close the thread

 

[JLC]

Are they ignoring elite talent? For mine they are trying to get elite talent when the player is at a good age - backing in their systems to get the players into peak condition.


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