List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[cfc05]

I see most are suggesting we trade pick 1 if we have it, as we don't need a KPF. Whilst I agree in principle if we can get overs, like the adelaide scenario of two first rounders and our second rounder. However, if Adelaide don't come to the table and we are "stuck" with pick 1, I would like us to pick this once in a generation forward.

As many have mentioned, we don't need him in our current set up. So simple, make room. See if Levi still has second round currency, even try and package that with pick 22 and move in to first round again. See if Harry has top 10 currency, yes, it would be horrible to lose him after waiting and now seeing the exciting times ahead - however a forward line with Luko/Charlie is tall enough and you have your two targets, cash in Harry for a Pick 5 and get yourself a mid. If TDK or Kerr play, and show signs this also adds depth behind those two or could also be more currency.

If we could trade back in to first round (high first round for Harry), I would be all for it and keep pick 1.

Sure it has been suggested, but have not seen it yet.

Could also argue the same thing in our backline - potentially trade on the key talls, not because we don't think they will become something, but because we have depth there and they have currency in the market. If you lock down Marchbank as the person to build around, then one of Plowman or Jacob could become that player. IF someone was interested for the right price - you would have to seriously consider it!

With our current list composition, if we could get pick 2-4 for Weiters, pick 5-10 for Harry - I think we would have to entertain the idea.

 

[BluStreak]

This draft will include live trading. Yes?
If so, I would pick Luko and then field offers.
If no one provides sufficient enticement to trade then we keep him.

 

[Arr0w]

I see most are suggesting we trade pick 1 if we have it, as we don't need a KPF. Whilst I agree in principle if we can get overs, like the adelaide scenario of two first rounders and our second rounder. However, if Adelaide don't come to the table and we are "stuck" with pick 1, I would like us to pick this once in a generation forward.

As many have mentioned, we don't need him in our current set up. So simple, make room. See if Levi still has second round currency, even try and package that with pick 22 and move in to first round again. See if Harry has top 10 currency, yes, it would be horrible to lose him after waiting and now seeing the exciting times ahead - however a forward line with Luko/Charlie is tall enough and you have your two targets, cash in Harry for a Pick 5 and get yourself a mid. If TDK or Kerr play, and show signs this also adds depth behind those two or could also be more currency.

If we could trade back in to first round (high first round for Harry), I would be all for it and keep pick 1.

Sure it has been suggested, but have not seen it yet.

Could also argue the same thing in our backline - potentially trade on the key talls, not because we don't think they will become something, but because we have depth there and they have currency in the market. If you lock down Marchbank as the person to build around, then one of Plowman or Jacob could become that player. IF someone was interested for the right price - you would have to seriously consider it!

With our current list composition, if we could get pick 2-4 for Weiters, pick 5-10 for Harry - I think we would have to entertain the idea.

Have rated Lukosius number 1 pick, before the start of this season, but given where our list is at, why would we trade out any of our young talented kids, just doesn't make sense

 

[DangerousD]

Can anyone give me a quick run down of live trading will/does work?

If live trading comes in does that not make the trade period (pick swaps and upgrades) a little obsolete?

 

[F_therest]

The best part about the combination of Charlie and Luko is the fact they're very mobile forwards that are suited to modern day football. I have a feeling that Charlie has midfield ability long term.

Everyone stating that we need midfielders, you are not wrong. With our current list at the moment, Rome was not built in a day, so adding midfielders into our team is not going to change a heap in the short term. The only area of the ground which I think we would skip even if it presented some value would be tall defenders. I could see us also skipping rucks for a few years.

Playing the hypothetical game of Carlton finishing last.

Pick 1. Luko
Pick 2. Rozee, Joyce, Jones {insert sliding midfielder}
Pick 3. Just best midfield/small forward/small defender with speed and kicking skills.

A draft like that would certainly would help to fill a few holes in our team. My only concern would be having another smallish midfielder.
With the addition of Fisher, SPS, LOB.... We may need some inside grunt. The only problem is like tall forwards, often inside midfielders take a few years to develop into playing AFL.

You would have to hope the Luko/inside midfielder would be starting to hit some try AFL potential by 2021.

Inside midfielders don't take long to develop, certainly not the same as key forwards. If we draft a kid who's a naturally bigger body like SPS/Wines they are the ones who have immediate impact in their very first year.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Inside midfielders don't take long to develop, certainly not the same as key forwards. If we draft a kid who's a naturally bigger body like SPS/Wines they are the ones who have immediate impact in their very first year.

There are very few inside midfielders who play straight away, let alone have an impact.

 

[F_therest]

I don't think we'll finish last but if we do, the trade offers that come in for Lukoscious will be insane. I reckon SOS will happily sit back and wait to bring in a massive haul.

I really don't see a club trading pick 1 ever again after what happened with Hodge.

It's just such a precious pick that let's you pick the best kid in the land...ultimately no club who's in the finals frame will trade for it since they won't give up current stars for a pick 1 when they are trying to push for a premiership. Other bottom 10 clubs may put in some offers but just highly unlikely will ever be enough to convince a club to trade pick 1...there is additional pressure in that clubs don't want to look like a fool by possibly giving up the next Luke Hodge or in this case, a guy who's meant to be a very special tall forward. That haunted Freo for 15 years.

 

[F_therest]

The other thing about taking Lukosious is it means Charlie could go into a midfield role. So we get a mid anyhow. Cause and Affect.

I really don't see it. Maybe in bursts and centre stoppages here and there but no way as a permanent mid.

He's not particularly quick and his strength is his marking...he's perfectly suited for a forward roaming role, he looks like he could be a star in that position. Don't quite get the obsession with turning him into a mid.

 

[F_therest]

I see most are suggesting we trade pick 1 if we have it, as we don't need a KPF. Whilst I agree in principle if we can get overs, like the adelaide scenario of two first rounders and our second rounder. However, if Adelaide don't come to the table and we are "stuck" with pick 1, I would like us to pick this once in a generation forward.

As many have mentioned, we don't need him in our current set up. So simple, make room. See if Levi still has second round currency, even try and package that with pick 22 and move in to first round again. See if Harry has top 10 currency, yes, it would be horrible to lose him after waiting and now seeing the exciting times ahead - however a forward line with Luko/Charlie is tall enough and you have your two targets, cash in Harry for a Pick 5 and get yourself a mid. If TDK or Kerr play, and show signs this also adds depth behind those two or could also be more currency.

If we could trade back in to first round (high first round for Harry), I would be all for it and keep pick 1.

Sure it has been suggested, but have not seen it yet.

Could also argue the same thing in our backline - potentially trade on the key talls, not because we don't think they will become something, but because we have depth there and they have currency in the market. If you lock down Marchbank as the person to build around, then one of Plowman or Jacob could become that player. IF someone was interested for the right price - you would have to seriously consider it!

With our current list composition, if we could get pick 2-4 for Weiters, pick 5-10 for Harry - I think we would have to entertain the idea.

No way.

If i had to decide between keeping Harry and drafting a mid, or trading Harry and drafting Lukosius, i'd choose the former.

Harry is showing some good signs at AFL level and we've got a couple years into him. People overhype draftees all the time...Boyd was meant to take the competition by storm and he hasn't. Lukosius is lean and agile...he could be a star or he could be Jack Watts who went pick 1 due to similar attributes.

Bottom line is in zero scenarios should we be trading Harry.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I really don't see it. Maybe in bursts and centre stoppages here and there but no way as a permanent mid.

He's not particularly quick and his strength is his marking...he's perfectly suited for a forward roaming role, he looks like he could be a star in that position. Don't quite get the obsession with turning him into a mid.

Wont be too many suggesting Charlie plays much in the middle when either next year or the year after he kicks 50-60 goals in the season .

 

[CJMB]

I see most are suggesting we trade pick 1 if we have it, as we don't need a KPF. Whilst I agree in principle if we can get overs, like the adelaide scenario of two first rounders and our second rounder. However, if Adelaide don't come to the table and we are "stuck" with pick 1, I would like us to pick this once in a generation forward.

As many have mentioned, we don't need him in our current set up. So simple, make room. See if Levi still has second round currency, even try and package that with pick 22 and move in to first round again. See if Harry has top 10 currency, yes, it would be horrible to lose him after waiting and now seeing the exciting times ahead - however a forward line with Luko/Charlie is tall enough and you have your two targets, cash in Harry for a Pick 5 and get yourself a mid. If TDK or Kerr play, and show signs this also adds depth behind those two or could also be more currency.

If we could trade back in to first round (high first round for Harry), I would be all for it and keep pick 1.

Sure it has been suggested, but have not seen it yet.

Could also argue the same thing in our backline - potentially trade on the key talls, not because we don't think they will become something, but because we have depth there and they have currency in the market. If you lock down Marchbank as the person to build around, then one of Plowman or Jacob could become that player. IF someone was interested for the right price - you would have to seriously consider it!

With our current list composition, if we could get pick 2-4 for Weiters, pick 5-10 for Harry - I think we would have to entertain the idea.

I don't see our list composition as a massive issue going forward like some do.
Rowe, ASOS, O'Shea, JGM, Lobbe, and Levi will most likely all be gone in the next couple of years. Jury is still out on Kerr and it appears that Jack is being taught how to play inside mid.

That leaves long term options:

Weitering, Macreadie as two tall defenders, Marchbank as 3rd man/intercepter & Plowman as a versatile medium who can play smaller. Add Docherty, Williamson and one of Byrne, O'Brien or Schumacher as the 7th defender and it's looking alright.

Harry and Charlie and maybe Kerr as a 3rd tall. Surrounded by Pickett, Garlett, Cuningham at HFF, resting mids, etc.

TDK in the ruck in the AK (after Kreuzer) period of CFC. Hopefully the tractor has a few more seasons in him before that time.

There's not actually all that many players there when you look at it. That's why I'm quite comfortable with us adding Lukosius and BSOS if we draft them (or King/etc). I'm less comfortable with us drafting a tall/3rd defender.

I don't want to trade someone like Harry or Jacob because in a couple of years time we'll have needed to bring in more talls to fill positions, and those talls we bring in will need a few years to develop. We don't want to hit a point where our young mids are all firing but we're vulnerable at the key posts because we decided to trade a promising tall prospect for another shot at the draft.

 

[F_therest]

I don't want to trade someone like Harry or Jacob because in a couple of years time we'll have needed to bring in more talls to fill positions, and those talls we bring in will need a few years to develop. We don't want to hit a point where our young mids are all firing but we're vulnerable at the key posts because we decided to trade a promising tall prospect for another shot at the draft.

I don't think you have to worry about us doing that.

I'm pretty sure SOS drafted mostly talls in 2015 for a reason and also brought in other talls like Marchbank in 2016...he knows they take longer to develop so wanted to get them in early.

We're seeing now he's mainly bringing in mids and smaller players in the draft and brought in Kennedy via trade.

 

[CJMB]

Wont be too many suggesting Charlie plays much in the middle when either next year or the year after he kicks 50-60 goals in the season .

If Harry can play the rest of the season and hold his 2.33 season average he'll finish on 42 goals (would be 51 over a full 22 games).

 

[1981]

I see most are suggesting we trade pick 1 if we have it, as we don't need a KPF. Whilst I agree in principle if we can get overs, like the adelaide scenario of two first rounders and our second rounder. However, if Adelaide don't come to the table and we are "stuck" with pick 1, I would like us to pick this once in a generation forward.

As many have mentioned, we don't need him in our current set up. So simple, make room. See if Levi still has second round currency, even try and package that with pick 22 and move in to first round again. See if Harry has top 10 currency, yes, it would be horrible to lose him after waiting and now seeing the exciting times ahead - however a forward line with Luko/Charlie is tall enough and you have your two targets, cash in Harry for a Pick 5 and get yourself a mid. If TDK or Kerr play, and show signs this also adds depth behind those two or could also be more currency.

If we could trade back in to first round (high first round for Harry), I would be all for it and keep pick 1.

Sure it has been suggested, but have not seen it yet.

Could also argue the same thing in our backline - potentially trade on the key talls, not because we don't think they will become something, but because we have depth there and they have currency in the market. If you lock down Marchbank as the person to build around, then one of Plowman or Jacob could become that player. IF someone was interested for the right price - you would have to seriously consider it!

With our current list composition, if we could get pick 2-4 for Weiters, pick 5-10 for Harry - I think we would have to entertain the idea.

But we do need a KPP.

We are one short IMO.

And CC can go onball.

 

[CJMB]

I don't think you have to worry about us doing that.

I'm pretty sure SOS drafted mostly talls in 2015 for a reason and also brought in other talls like Marchbank in 2016...he knows they take longer to develop so wanted to get them in early.

We're seeing now he's mainly bringing in mids and smaller players in the draft and brought in Kennedy via trade.

Yeah, we're on the same page. I was responding to another poster who floated the idea of using Harry or Weit to get an extra pick, possibly in the first round. I think Weitering, Marchbank, Harry & Charlie are gonna be our star talls for years to come. Macreadie and Lukosius could also be there joining them, 3 gun big guys at each end, wreaking havoc...

 

[F_therest]

Yeah, we're on the same page. I was responding to another poster who floated the idea of using Harry or Weit to get an extra pick, possibly in the first round. I think Weitering, Marchbank, Harry & Charlie are gonna be our star talls for years to come. Macreadie and Lukosius could also be there joining them, 3 gun big guys at each end, wreaking havoc...

Yep they are our 4 key pillars pencilled in for the next 10 years i reckon...Weitering & Marchbank in defence, Harry & Charlie in attack.

That's some pretty good young talls to build a side around.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I really don't see a club trading pick 1 ever again after what happened with Hodge.

It's just such a precious pick that let's you pick the best kid in the land...ultimately no club who's in the finals frame will trade for it since they won't give up current stars for a pick 1 when they are trying to push for a premiership. Other bottom 10 clubs may put in some offers but just highly unlikely will ever be enough to convince a club to trade pick 1...there is additional pressure in that clubs don't want to look like a fool by possibly giving up the next Luke Hodge or in this case, a guy who's meant to be a very special tall forward. That haunted Freo for 15 years.

I absolutely think we need to put pick 1 on the table. I just cant get excited about this Lukosius guy, and an absolute need to draft him because he is supposedly the best KPF draft prospect ever. I f we end up with pick 1 other clubs will be throwing offers at us left right and centre for it, for him. Specifically the GCS, who will absolutely need this guy after losing Lynch. I absolutely think we can garner their own pick and what I assume will be their very good compensation pick for losing Lynch. I'm thinking picks 4 and 5, or 5 and 6. I cant see why anyone wouldn't jump at something like that.

 

[Iamcarlton]

If Harry can play the rest of the season and hold his 2.33 season average he'll finish on 42 goals (would be 51 over a full 22 games).

Ive been bullish on Mckay since first seeing him he's very athletic for his size with a great reach . But I'll be a little more conservative on Mckay and say it wont happen (yet) .
But that would certainly have been the intention of SOS when he drafted both of Charlie and Harry to kick around the50- 60 each. From what we have seen to date i dont doubt that both can achieve big returns in time .

 

[Arr0w]

Can anyone give me a quick run down of live trading will/does work?

If live trading comes in does that not make the trade period (pick swaps and upgrades) a little obsolete?

Still being finalised, but i believe, in the initial rollout and in short, once the trade period ends, clubs can continue to trade, draft picks only, before and during the draft. I believe next year, if all goes well, you will also be able to trade current players, if you are looking to hold a certain pick to obtain a draftee, or if you miss out on the said draftee, trade back in the draft order. Example of this, was when SOS traded 1 x 2nd rounder (Claravino) for 3 × 3rd rounders, Willo, Kerr, Macreadie

 

[HBF]

There are very few inside midfielders who play straight away, let alone have an impact.

Correct. Have a look at Cripps who took a couple of years to really cement his spot.

 

[F_therest]

I absolutely think we need to put pick 1 on the table. I just cant get excited about this Lukosius guy, and an absolute need to draft him because he is supposedly the best KPF draft prospect ever. I f we end up with pick 1 other clubs will be throwing offers at us left right and centre for it, for him. Specifically the GCS, who will absolutely need this guy after losing Lynch. I absolutely think we can garner their own pick and what I assume will be their very good compensation pick for losing Lynch. I'm thinking picks 4 and 5, or 5 and 6. I cant see why anyone wouldn't jump at something like that.

I'm not saying pick 1 is off the table. I'm in the 'get a mid with our first' camp.

But what i'm saying is I just think it's highly unlikely a deal can actually be struck that convinces a club, any club, to part with pick 1 and both teams are happy. It will always be a heavily scrutinised deal, with lots of pressure on both clubs if they 'lose' the deal. Like Freo and Hodge.

Of course we'd jump at pick 4 and 5 for 1...that's so one-sided in our favour. The problem is realistically GC will never offer that. Essentially losing a superstar like Lynch AND pick 4 for pick 1 is horrible for them.

 

[bludrew79]

Lets say Luko ends up being every bit as good as a Nick Riewoldt...

I still don't think Riewoldts career is anywhere near as good if he wasn't being fed by...
Hayes, Dal Santo, Goddard, Jones, Gram, Ball

We need mids... we have invested in height.. we need to get the engine room going

 

[Captain Cripps]

The best part about the combination of Charlie and Luko is the fact they're very mobile forwards that are suited to modern day football. I have a feeling that Charlie has midfield ability long term.

Everyone stating that we need midfielders, you are not wrong. With our current list at the moment, Rome was not built in a day, so adding midfielders into our team is not going to change a heap in the short term. The only area of the ground which I think we would skip even if it presented some value would be tall defenders. I could see us also skipping rucks for a few years.

Playing the hypothetical game of Carlton finishing last.

Pick 1. Luko
Pick 2. Rozee, Joyce, Jones {insert sliding midfielder}
Pick 3. Just best midfield/small forward/small defender with speed and kicking skills.

A draft like that would certainly would help to fill a few holes in our team. My only concern would be having another smallish midfielder.
With the addition of Fisher, SPS, LOB.... We may need some inside grunt. The only problem is like tall forwards, often inside midfielders take a few years to develop into playing AFL.

You would have to hope the Luko/inside midfielder would be starting to hit some try AFL potential by 2021.

So you say mids take time, like any position really, less than keys anyways but if we keep putting off doesn’t that mean we will be 1,2 years behind anyway?
I just don’t follow the logic here

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I'm not saying pick 1 is off the table. I'm in the 'get a mid with our first' camp.

But what i'm saying is I just think it's highly unlikely a deal can actually be struck that convinces a club, any club, to part with pick 1 and both teams are happy. It will always be a heavily scrutinised deal, with lots of pressure on both clubs if they 'lose' the deal. Like Freo and Hodge.

Of course we'd jump at pick 4 and 5 for 1...that's so one-sided in our favour. The problem is realistically GC will never offer that. Essentially losing a superstar like Lynch AND pick 4 for pick 1 is horrible for them.

Mate, they gave up pick 2 for a better than average player in last years trade period (Weller I think)

They’ve had way more top 20 picks than we’ve had over the last 3 years. Their list composition is still relatively young.

Whilst I can’t see pick 1 for 4&5 I could see say pick 1/22 for 4&5 in drafts gone by recently but Having said that, Lukosius isn’t the only gun tall in this draft and all depends how big a boner they would have for him.

We may get lucky...but then SOS May have his own boner for him!!

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I'm not saying pick 1 is off the table. I'm in the 'get a mid with our first' camp.

But what i'm saying is I just think it's highly unlikely a deal can actually be struck that convinces a club, any club, to part with pick 1 and both teams are happy. It will always be a heavily scrutinised deal, with lots of pressure on both clubs if they 'lose' the deal. Like Freo and Hodge.

Of course we'd jump at pick 4 and 5 for 1...that's so one-sided in our favour. The problem is realistically GC will never offer that. Essentially losing a superstar like Lynch AND pick 4 for pick 1 is horrible for them.

I am too. Obviously we would offer more than just pick one. Possibly our own PP? A player? But they would absolutely jump at the chance to replace Lynch with Lukosius.