Autopsy Cats lose to Suns by 64 points.

[The_Koulouriotis_Fan]

You could even go more recently.

2014 - Maybe Jake Kolodjashnij makes it, but it just sucks that we got the 'dud brother'; as young Kade looks like a star in waiting.

2017 - Jack Henry & Tom Stewart might be okay players with some development, but they're not blue chip talents like Griffin Logue.

Much less Jack Scrimshaw, who Zach Guthrie will NEVER be in the same post-code of as a player. The talent gap is just too big.

2018 - We might be able to develop Gryan Miers into a serviceable footballer...but Jaidyn Stephenson is just a different level. You go that high in the draft for a reason.

2020 - We all like Max Holmes, he's got some great athletic traits...but until we can get to the top of the draft and pick our version of Will Phillips, Dylan Stephens, or Jye Caldwell, it's hard to see us having a future star.

Spot on!

A lot of our draft picks are take a bit longer to develop because they had deficiencies otherwise they would’ve been taken earlier. But some players take a while to develop. Kids mature at a different age, 18, 19, 20, 21 is completely different for some kids. Look at Tim Kelly, 24 when he came in and was elite, but why did he take till 24?
It’s unfair to expect them all to be good or write them off so early. Clark might’ve been an early pick but clearly he’s got some growing to do, the traits and desire are there. If you can’t see them, then you need to watch the game more objectively.

And back on Tim Kelly, he wasn’t a better player at Geelong, nor was he hungrier. He was just in a midfield that suited his game style and allowed him to thrive.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

I thought people were pretty big on Miers, didn't he kick 6 in his u18 Grand Final? And then his first season for us was great.

Second season, I just used the 2018 example because that's when everybody was on Stephenson as a future superstar.

You're right, Gryan had some fans when he was drafted in 2017...but when 2018 rolled around and he was stuck in the VFL, he very quickly found his detractors.

2019 (his debut senior year) returned the popular view to the draft time hype, and then it was a long sebbatical (probably until late 2022) that he was recognised again as non negotiable best 22 and evolving from 'whipping boy' status, before eventually becoming a star.

 

[Strange Cat]

Bruhn, Clark, Holmes and Bowes are nowhere near the talent of Harley Reid, but I hope they all look at him and realise you don't have to be in your mid-20s+ to take on the game.

Ried is significantly more bigger in build to take on the game that the other players you mentioned…he’s a talent and will be a future Brownlow medalist the other players mentioned are doing very well so far in their career let’s not add more pressure on their development by comparing them to a once in a generation player

 

[tommy2011]

Ried is significantly more bigger in build to take on the game that the other players you mentioned…he’s a talent and will be a future Brownlow medalist the other players mentioned are doing very well so far in their career let’s not add more pressure on their development by comparing them to a once in a generation player

Not comparing them to Reid. Just hoping they're looking at him and (like the rest of us) are inspired by him. Have a look at Miers, for example. Great talent and possibly AA in the future, but with Reid's mindset (not his body) I reckon he would be sinking goals from 35m out on the boundary instead of always looking inside for little dinky passes (yes, they often come off).

 

[iameviljez]

Bruhn, Clark, Holmes and Bowes are nowhere near the talent of Harley Reid, but I hope they all look at him and realise you don't have to be in your mid-20s+ to take on the game.

Bruhn and Holmes definitely take it on.

 

[Cataholic]

Bruhn and Holmes definitely take it on.

I reckon there's a fair bit of fight in Clark too, no matter his size.

 

[Strange Cat]

I think some of the posters are really underestimating how big some of the adult players are compared to the 18-19 year old kids …it’s a big gap that they may not actually be able to bridge untill they have some size both in confidence and skill

FWIW I’ve seen Clark tackle down some players that are much bigger than him so I don’t think his attitude should be questioned

 

[Baudolino]

What other starting midfielder is averaging less than 18 touches a game? And when he is not butchering the ball himself he is getting torched on the spread - I know Parfitt is well below afl standard but at least he puts some effort in defensively.

There's definitely some truth in this, particularly as Bruhn isn't exactly a damaging "maximum impact per possession" type player (only 1 goal and 3 assists from his 8 games thus far).

 

[Art Vandelay_]

isn't exactly a damaging "maximum impact per possession" type player (only 1 goal and 3 assists from his 8 games thus far).

Our mid group has a lot in that basket atm.

Bruhn.
Bowes.
Parfitt.
Clark.
Blicavs.
Atkins.

 

[Finknottle]

Our mid group has a lot in that basket atm.

Bruhn.
Bowes.
Parfitt.
Clark.
Blicavs.
Atkins.

Midfielders who kick goals. Haven't had any for a number of years. Danger used to, Selwood did.

 

[Mr Meow]

There's definitely some truth in this, particularly as Bruhn isn't exactly a damaging "maximum impact per possession" type player (only 1 goal and 3 assists from his 8 games thus far).

2022: 2.6 score involvements per game
2023: 3.9 score involvements per game
2024: 4.4 Score involvements per game

He was up around 5 score involvements per game until his last couple (quiet then injured, then returning from injury and even more quiet) brought his 2024 average down.

When he's up and firing again, I'd say the progression from 2.6 to 5 score involvements per game in 2 years is okay for a youngster. Unless you are looking at top 5 draft picks who are big bodied and star from day one, the Bruhn progression cycle is fairly normal.

He's just over 30 games into his midfield career after being wasted on a flank for 2 years. And like it or not, people have to accept a 63% game time midfielder will not have the stats of an 85-88% midfielder. Will we see that in years to come? Perhaps. If Scott continues to have 8 midfielder rotations the masses will continue to get angry at all of them for being less prolific.

 

[Finknottle]

Spot on!

A lot of our draft picks are take a bit longer to develop because they had deficiencies otherwise they would’ve been taken earlier. But some players take a while to develop. Kids mature at a different age, 18, 19, 20, 21 is completely different for some kids. Look at Tim Kelly, 24 when he came in and was elite, but why did he take till 24?
It’s unfair to expect them all to be good or write them off so early. Clark might’ve been an early pick but clearly he’s got some growing to do, the traits and desire are there. If you can’t see them, then you need to watch the game more objectively.

And back on Tim Kelly, he wasn’t a better player at Geelong, nor was he hungrier. He was just in a midfield that suited his game style and allowed him to thrive.

Tim Kelly's influence on Geelong was profound. He improved Geelong, not the other way around. Kelly has been impressive at WC through the lean years and is finally getting some help from Harley Reid. You could make the case that WC with A grader Kelly and future A grader Reid have a better midfield than Geelong.

 

[Sttew]

Tim Kelly's influence on Geelong was profound. He improved Geelong, not the other way around. Kelly has been impressive at WC through the lean years and is finally getting some help from Harley Reid. You could make the case that WC with A grader Kelly and future A grader Reid have a better midfield than Geelong.

100% The way Reid fended off Petracca and Oliver was a sight to behold. He is a beast and the best first year player I have seen, better than Judd, Daicos and Selwood, IMO.

Throw in Yeo & Kelly...

 

[calder_daddy]

Found this very interesting
Watching from the couch I could’ve sworn Blicavs had one of his quieter games as I seem him sitting a FF fairly often

This is a prime example of how games are portrayed through a screen rather than seeing the game live.

 

[Mr Meow]

Tim Kelly's influence on Geelong was profound. He improved Geelong, not the other way around. Kelly has been impressive at WC through the lean years and is finally getting some help from Harley Reid. You could make the case that WC with A grader Kelly and future A grader Reid have a better midfield than Geelong.

Kelly was immense at Geelong and great last year but otherwise has not really been that good at West Coast. Their supporters are not happy with his 2023 and were not especially impressed 2020-2022.

 

[Finknottle]

Kelly was immense at Geelong and great last year but otherwise has not really been that good at West Coast. Their supporters are not happy with his 2023 and were not especially impressed 2020-2022.

I watched a few WC games last year and a couple this year including the win against Melbourne. Reid was the showstopper on the weekend but Kelly's game was even better. Even when WC were being belted by other teams Kelly was still working his guts out. Kelly runs all day and is a beautiful user of the ball. WC fans must expect a lot. Kelly was never going to solve their problems but now that they are getting their act together you could not find a better player to build a midfield around.

 

[Mr Meow]

I watched a few WC games last year and a couple this year including the win against Melbourne. Reid was the showstopper on the weekend but Kelly's game was even better. Even when WC were being belted by other teams Kelly was still working his guts out. Kelly runs all day and is a beautiful user of the ball. WC fans must expect a lot. Kelly was never going to solve their problems but now that they are getting their act together you could not find a better player to build a midfield around.

I've watched the same games and am more inclined to agree with the Coaster supporters. He's been alright but not outstanding. Last year he was great, you should've seen him then. Yeo and Reed injected in there has changed their outlook. And Simpson has started complimenting them with midfielders taking on the right defensive elements that were previously missing.

 

[Finknottle]

The tendency to write the Darwin game off due to the conditions is a mistake. We have lost our last three games and the constant was being smashed in the midfield. You could see the writing on the wall in the game against Carlton 4 rounds ago where we were smashed in the middle but squeaked out a win. What happened in Darwin was a continuation of a trend. We will more than likely be smashed by the GWS midfield unless we do something different. Bring in Hardie and possibly Mannagh. We can't expect better results if we keep rolling out the same uncompetitive midfield players every week.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The tendency to write the Darwin game off due to the conditions is a mistake. We have lost our last three games and the constant was being smashed in the midfield. You could see the writing on the wall in the game against Carlton 4 rounds ago where we were smashed in the middle but squeaked out a win. What happened in Darwin was a continuation of a trend. We will more than likely be smashed by the GWS midfield unless we do something different. Bring in Hardie and possibly Mannagh. We can't expect better results if we keep rolling out the same uncompetitive midfield players every week.

I think you can write off the scale of the loss, but the scale is only off the charts because the conditions amplified problems that are already there.

You can't write off the deficiencies that led to the loss.

 

[Mr Meow]

The tendency to write the Darwin game off due to the conditions is a mistake. We have lost our last three games and the constant was being smashed in the midfield. You could see the writing on the wall in the game against Carlton 4 rounds ago where we were smashed in the middle but squeaked out a win. What happened in Darwin was a continuation of a trend. We will more than likely be smashed by the GWS midfield unless we do something different. Bring in Hardie and possibly Mannagh. We can't expect better results if we keep rolling out the same uncompetitive midfield players every week.

Bruhn will be much better than last week (his worst ever AFL game?) and upping Holmes/Mullin's stoppage minutes will help. The mix that hasn't worked for a month straight is Guthrie, Blicavs, Atkins and Parfitt.

A week of Bruhn, Holmes, Bowes, Parfitt, Mullin and Atkins in midfield is what I'd like to see. Away from the NT conditions. I'm not dead against Hardie coming in for Clark or Guthrie. Back in your youngster or veteran, make your choice. We can't carry both.

And Blicavs should only be a two way running wingman who chops out in the ruck. His midfield days are over unless he has a massive form reversion.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Bruhn will be much better than last week (his worst ever AFL game?) and upping Holmes/Mullin's stoppage minutes will help. The mix that hasn't worked for a month straight is Guthrie, Blicavs, Atkins and Parfitt.

A week of Bruhn, Holmes, Bowes, Parfitt, Mullin and Atkins in midfield is what I'd like to see. Away from the NT conditions. I'm not dead against Hardie coming in for Clark or Guthrie. Back in your youngster or veteran, make your choice. We can't carry both.

And Blicavs should only be a two way running wingman who chops out in the ruck. His midfield days are over unless he has a massive form reversion.

I reckon it was the pre-season game against bombers we sent Holmes to the backline early and got smashed in the middle, then late we sent him on ball and it made every other midfielder better

 

[Mr Meow]

I reckon it was the pre-season game against bombers we sent Holmes to the backline early and got smashed in the middle, then late we sent him on ball and it made every other midfielder better

Bowes last few AFL games haven't been amazing but I stand by the fact we have to back him in, and as a midfielder/wingman.

Take his sub game away and he is our only midfielder averaging over 20 disposals (just), again with the lower game time - just shy of 70%. 6 goals/assists from 6 full games. Plenty of tackles but he does have to work on not giving soft frees away.

He is generally a pretty good decision maker and has decent skills.

It might be a low bar but you cannot call his performances in line with some of the 10-13 scrappy disposal efforts we have seen from Parfitt, Atkins, Guthrie and Blicavs lately.

 

[moond0g]

View attachment 1995614

Found this very interesting
Watching from the couch I could’ve sworn Blicavs had one of his quieter games as I seem him sitting a FF fairly often

This is a prime example of how games are portrayed through a screen rather than seeing the game live.

He played 90%ToG which is very high, even for him. I'd say it's as much due to this as anything else.

 

[God Mode]

The tendency to write the Darwin game off due to the conditions is a mistake. We have lost our last three games and the constant was being smashed in the midfield. You could see the writing on the wall in the game against Carlton 4 rounds ago where we were smashed in the middle but squeaked out a win. What happened in Darwin was a continuation of a trend. We will more than likely be smashed by the GWS midfield unless we do something different. Bring in Hardie and possibly Mannagh. We can't expect better results if we keep rolling out the same uncompetitive midfield players every week.

Our weakness in the midfield has been no different since the beginning of the year. The difference is that our intensity has dropped off a cliff these last 3 weeks (culminating in the Darwin game) which has led to a failure to execute our Plan A, one aspect being: Conceding we'll lose in the midfield, but apply immense pressure to the opposition clearer and forcing a pressured disposal resulting in turnover.

We are also sneakily working on a Plan B. That being an aggressive resting strategy for our midfielders and reduced TOG. Similar to what we did in 2022. In that year, this paid off as the year progressed as whilst we had one of the weaker midfields, by seasons end they were far fresher than superior opposition midfields.

Accept that we won't win many games from our midfield and that it's in Plan A that will lead us to victory. The question remains whether we can strike the right balance in resting players that will keep us fresh through to the end of the year.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Bowes last few AFL games haven't been amazing but I stand by the fact we have to back him in, and as a midfielder/wingman.

Take his sub game away and he is our only midfielder averaging over 20 disposals (just), again with the lower game time - just shy of 70%. 6 goals/assists from 6 full games. Plenty of tackles but he does have to work on not giving soft frees away.

He is generally a pretty good decision maker and has decent skills.

It might be a low bar but you cannot call his performances in line with some of the 10-13 scrappy disposal efforts we have seen from Parfitt, Atkins, Guthrie and Blicavs lately.

Yeah it's pretty shocking that probably our most consistent midfielder is a bloke rated so poorly externally the Suns had to give us pick 8 to take him