Review Cats spay Demons by 39 points.

[dazbroncos]

I think we can say to give Neale time but also admit he had been poor

Poor and liability are 2 different inferences.
Poor yes and the ankle affected him.

Liability.. too much drama.

Go Catters

 

[Play it Sam]

I dont watch non geelong games much anymore (too many other things going on in my life) so i didnt know much about bailey smith coming into this season.

unless he is uncharacteristically below his best at the moment he aint a gun is he? Certainly wont ever be a top twenty in the comp player. Might not ever be all australian level as a mid.

And he is more inside then I thought with not much outside damage factor (lots of scrappy handballs that dont hit their target too). Certainly nothing like holmes or danger in terms of x factor. Seems more at the peak cam guthrie and mitch duncan talent level then anything else. Maybe slightly better.

Great that we have him. Certainly need players like him in the mids. But he doesnt match the pre season hype. Am i alone on this assessment?

Yep, you're alone. BOG first game, and serviceable thereafter, he's a goer proving to be a great acquisition. Give the bloke a go without comparing, watch the replay- I'm impressed he gets himself free on many occasions, not always used, still getting used to our game plan, and not being forced to carry the Bulldogs on his shoulders. Developing a great bond with Danger, too.

 

[cats_09]

I've actually watched this quite a few times to see what happened, and honestly, I'm not sure he did stage?

McDonald's arm goes for the spoil at first, but as he's finishing the spoil, his arm swings back and smacks Dempsey in the chin, which could explain the reaction. I'd be challenging that if I were him.

View attachment 2273947

I don't think anyone is disputing the was some contact there, but the question is,
"Did Dempsey exaggerate contact?"

(H) STAGING
Staging can include, but is not limited to excessive exaggeration of contact in an unsportsmanlike manner. Staging is a Reportable Offence as it may:

• » Affect umpires’ decision-making;
• » Incite a melee; and/or
• » Not be in the spirit of the game (unsportsmanlike).

While there's contact, I'm not sure the trailing hand really made enough contact for Dempsey to go down like he had been shot, and it's that drop for which he'd have been fined. The better reaction may have been to just grab at the jaw

With fines, players can send a written submission as a challenge - if successful you get off, if not you have to pay the full fine without the early discount, I don't think there's any additional payment like when unsuccessfully challenging a suspension

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Give him time.
He had an elite finals series with the Dogs so the ability is there.
He's also coming off an acl with only 3 games in 18 months.
Rewatch the Dockers game to see why we were so keen.

 

[bombersboy]

Give him time.
He had an elite finals series with the Dogs so the ability is there.
He's also coming off an acl with only 3 games in 18 months.
Rewatch the Dockers game to see why we were so keen.

Agree completely. On the back of the ACL whatever he does this year he will be better next year.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hawk?? He definitely was not gifted games.

You literally got shown on the previous page that his output for his first 50 matches was almost the same per game as what Neale’s has been, with the addition of the fact that Neale has had to wait 3-4 seasons to get his chance to play 24 matches. Hawkins was chucked in immediately in his first season and given every chance to make a spot his own.

 

[STPer18]

 

[catempire]

I don't think anyone is disputing the was some contact there, but the question is,
"Did Dempsey exaggerate contact?"

(H) STAGING
Staging can include, but is not limited to excessive exaggeration of contact in an unsportsmanlike manner. Staging is a Reportable Offence as it may:

• » Affect umpires’ decision-making;
• » Incite a melee; and/or
• » Not be in the spirit of the game (unsportsmanlike).

While there's contact, I'm not sure the trailing hand really made enough contact for Dempsey to go down like he had been shot, and it's that drop for which he'd have been fined. The better reaction may have been to just grab at the jaw

With fines, players can send a written submission as a challenge - if successful you get off, if not you have to pay the full fine without the early discount, I don't think there's any additional payment like when unsuccessfully challenging a suspension

Yep. He flung himself in the opposite direction to the contact. That was the issue.

 

[Hinkley29]

Smith has played to a much higher level than Oliver this season, despite his disposal in the 2nd half of the Brisbane game being Oliver-esque.

He can actually run and generate meaningful attacks. Oliver is closer to a current day Travis Boak or Callan Ward, except a bit more prolific and with worse disposal quality.

I agree, smith has been fine, as good as I expected him to be. A good foot soldier, an above average midfielder.

And I also agree that he is a better player than Oliver. Oliver is nowhere near the player he was 3 years ago.

We don’t need a player like Oliver. We need a player like Harley, butters, Rowell, LDU, etc.

Ie. an absolute top liner. A player that can lead a midfield and be the best player in the centre square whenever they go there.

And we need to be prepared to pay what it costs to get one.

 

[Hinkley29]

Three games, Seeds, one of which he was clearly BoG. Three, and IMO he has been in our best in the other two.

Whether he's going to be a gun - look, I think he doesn't quite have the disposal or evasive/explosive skills of the absolute top tier (that Bont/Danger/Fyfe territory), but he could absolutely be in the top 10 to 20 range in a few years, so long as his knee and his mental health goes ok.

I think it is fanciful to think that smith will ever be in the top 10-20 mids in the comp.

He is not damaging enough with the ball, and he doesn’t have the power/explosive speed.

He is a solid above average midfielder. And that is fine.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The standard of discourse in this thread this morning has been below standard.

The 'Tom Hawkins delist' narrative anytime a young key forward at this club is criticised over the years is disingenuous and does not help advance the conversation.

The last fortnight Shannon Neale and Ollie Henry have been non-competitive. And its not acceptable.
Add in Stengle who needs strong representation at the contest to do his bit and we have half our forward line non-competitive. It cannot continue.

Play like that on Thursday night and we have no chance.

 

[Vdubs]

I agree, smith has been fine, as good as I expected him to be. A good foot soldier, an above average midfielder.

And I also agree that he is a better player than Oliver. Oliver is nowhere near the player he was 3 years ago.

We don’t need a player like Oliver. We need a player like Harley, butters, Rowell, LDU, etc.

Ie. an absolute top liner. A player that can lead a midfield and be the best player in the centre square whenever they go there.

And we need to be prepared to pay what it costs to get one.

what would that look like to get, say, Butters?

 

[Vdubs]

The standard of discourse in this thread this morning has been below standard.

The 'Tom Hawkins delist' narrative anytime a young key forward at this club is criticised over the years is disingenuous and does not help advance the conversation.

The last fortnight Shannon Neale and Ollie Henry have been non-competitive. And its not acceptable.
Add in Stengle who needs strong representation at the contest to do his bit and we have half our forward line non-competitive. It cannot continue.

Play like that on Thursday night and we have no chance.

As long as conversation is the operative word here.
Nothing we say will help Geelong, or Ollie , or Neale.
Having whipping boys here seems to be a penchant for too many, even if those players are below par.
It seems to delight some supporters to stick the boots in and see these players get dropped.
There are always reasons for form reversals when in the past, we have seen such players perform vastly better, and it does not always get better with, or suggest that they should be dropped.
If the MC makes that decision, fine. They are fully aware of all the circumstances, that we can only guess.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

The standard of discourse in this thread this morning has been below standard.

The 'Tom Hawkins delist' narrative anytime a young key forward at this club is criticised over the years is disingenuous and does not help advance the conversation.

The last fortnight Shannon Neale and Ollie Henry have been non-competitive. And its not acceptable.
Add in Stengle who needs strong representation at the contest to do his bit and we have half our forward line non-competitive. It cannot continue.

Play like that on Thursday night and we have no chance.

Some feel the need to vent and that's fine , we don't all have the same personality.
I think the forward line is still a work in progress, we are defining life after T Bone and slotting in Danger so all roles are slightly different.
I'll back our coaches in to get it optimal at some stage .

We don't always know the full story - maybe Shannon's ankle isn't 100% and his movement is compromised. He is also a pup so some inconsistency is inevitable.

Long season ahead , let's enjoy the ride and all the ups and downs

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You literally got shown on the previous page that his output for his first 50 matches was almost the same per game as what Neale’s has been, with the addition of the fact that Neale has had to wait 3-4 seasons to get his chance to play 24 matches. Hawkins was chucked in immediately in his first season and given every chance to make a spot his own.

No it was shown that his output was similar to esava ratugolea..

 

[geelong_crazy26]

And you heard it here first on news at 6…

“23 year old key forward form fluctuates as he learns the game (under 25 games) with a mf that provides sporadic delivery at best while now garnering the number 1 KPD each week.

Cue the outrage and demands to replace Tom Hawkins output now.”

Facepalm

Go Catters

What form fluctuation? Show me the form fluctuation in this:

Round 1: 9 disposals 5 marks 1 goal
Round 2: 5 disposals 3 marks 2 goals
Round 3: 5 disposals 1 mark 0 goals
Round 4: 7 disposals 5 marks 1 goal

Show me where “ the folks heard it first on the news at 6” about the above.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Absolutely he was, 2010/11 he was getting them based on potential.

Often played very good games and even bags of 4-5 goals at times in there. Battled as well an injury in 2010 which had him miss games.

his form fluctuated, but his good games where a level above even from his first year anything Shannon neale is showing

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Half of you fools would have delisted Tom Hawkins in early 2008 going by the crap posted about Neale.
Give the KID time.

Why would anyone delist a 19yo key forward who has shown bags of 3 and 4 in his first season be a similarity for a 23 yo key forward struggling to touch the footy?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Agree completely. On the back of the ACL whatever he does this year he will be better next year.

What are people criticizing?? His played very well

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Often played very good games and even bags of 4-5 goals at times in there. Battled as well an injury in 2010 which had him miss games.

his form fluctuated, but his good games where a level above even from his first year anything Shannon neale is showing

He was also being fed by one of the best midfields in modern history

 

[rapidfire7]

Still worried about Cameron, didn’t see much tonight that says he can control that forward line.

Despite his brilliance, Jezza has been hit and miss the entire time he has been at the club pretty much. However, he looks consistently average this year yeah. Real worry.

 

[iameviljez]

Often played very good games and even bags of 4-5 goals at times in there. Battled as well an injury in 2010 which had him miss games.

his form fluctuated, but his good games where a level above even from his first year anything Shannon neale is showing

He was better than Neale - I mean, he was a star junior as a forward for a start - but he was also playing in a better team than Neale, with better players in the VFL than Neale.

He was given games on potential and talent, and rightly so.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

He's played 3 games at a new club after having a load of time off. I think we can be quite happy with 2.5 games from that run. Now that Holmes is getting tagged and Dangerfield spends more time forward, Smith is a valuable addition (I think if he played against St Kilda we'd have won that game).

We got him for pick 20 and he is still pretty young. Somewhere on the A to B grade spectrum makes him a bargain. Nobody thought we were getting peak Dangerfield, Martin or Selwood though.

Watched the 'last quarter' a couple of times now of Cats vs Demons now Mr Meow and Bailey Smith's running capacity and I do mean 'his hard running capacity' and his ability to continually run into open spaces and 'holes'..... even in reasonably confined areas 'is elite' and is good as I've seen and we are talking about the 'last quarter' which means his fitness levels and his willingness to push himself under extreme duress is 'exceptional' which also results in opening up space for team-mates because opposition players are committed to trying to close him down. Not only that, but once he found possession his disposal did not waver which in itself was quite a feat and wonderful to see given the fatigue factor. Mr Meow:, Bailey Smith's value to the Geelong Football Club going forward 'is going to be immense', even more-so in finals at MCG and for those who do not understand that, simply do not understand football..... only wish we had him in last years prelim, as we would have had another premiership cup for the taking!

Mr Meow: I've had some Geelong BigFooty people tell me at start of year that COS will need another year in the twos or rather wait until later in season for him to get a AFL game as his not physically AFL ready which completely floored me as I've regarded for sometime, COS being the best young player at the Cattery since Joel Selwood. Others wanting Oisin Mullin dropped after first two games, others thinking Toby Conway (Damian Bourke clone) will not be our automatic number one ruckman when he comes back in second half of year (some not even wanting Toby to have resigned). Even recently with Shannon Neale needing to improve quickly or should be dropped, 'AMAZING' as his presence and structure to the side is immense and the list goes on, which also happens to coincide with a couple of narrow losses. I disappointingly just see, we have a few 'panic merchants' here at Geelong BigFooty with some unfortunately obsessed and misguided by stats and/or poor results, who fail to see the 'bigger picture'. As you are well aware Mr Meow: with being the excellent observer that you are, that we're currently going through a 'extremely exciting transitional stage' WHILE COMPETING FOR TOP 4 with so many promising, excellent and up and coming young players coming through the system and thankfully with Chris and co. they fully see 'the bigger picture' and no doubt, see nothing but exciting times ahead for the Geelong Footy Club.... and GO CATS !!!

PS - Mr Meow:, next time we play Brisbane Lions with Toby Conway playing ruck, I'd like to see SDK play on Harris Andrews which will automatically stop his dominance and more then likely shut him out of the game, in fact I'd love to see on the odd occasions through the season depending on who we are playing, SDK play centre half forward for Cats as he has that capability and flexibility to do extremely well in that role which could be invaluable to the team, which in modern football 'FLEXIBILITY' being a 'huge advantage'..... although it must be said that I do see SDK and COS as being our key backline pillars for the next dozen years or so..... and once again, GO CATS !!!

 

[Hinkley29]

what would that look like to get, say, Butters?

I have no idea. I am no trade guru.

But I would be prepared to pay what he is worth.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

He was better than Neale - I mean, he was a star junior as a forward for a start - but he was also playing in a better team than Neale, with better players in the VFL than Neale.

He was given games on potential and talent, and rightly so.

Not the better team talk… a lot of trolls on bigfooty used to say similar nonsense to discredit good work of our players.

He showed immense talent at AFL level inconsistently, because he was a very talented young player, not because he played in a team of good players.