CEY: training camp ripped the heart out of Adelaide Crows

[Sanders]

Wonder how the apologists will try to spin this?

We all know who I mean


Departing Cam Ellis-Yolmen says training camp ripped the heart out of Adelaide Crows
Outgoing Crows player Cam Ellis-Yolmen has dropped a hand grenade on the way out, saying Adelaide’s infamous Gold Coast training camp destroyed the club’s culture and divided its players.

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[SwampCreature]

What the hell actually happened up there

 

[Elite Crow]

What the hell actually happened up there

Burton ****ed up and has been covering his arse since with the help of some influential mates

 

[baldandbroke]

For a player, who was obviously trying to say as little as possible, to describe the camp as having split the playing group ... is an indication of how bad the camp and it's fallout was.

Really bad by Burton to bring his unqualified mates in.

Awful by the leaders of the club to ok it.

Horrific by those present to not see it going off the rails and stop it in its tracks.

Unbelievable that the coaches let it split the team after the fact. After what the group had been through, the bond they had ... to destroy that in a 4-day camp. Wow. Impressive.

Reminds me of the quote on Voldemort.

"After all, He Who Must Not Be Named did great things – terrible, yes, but great.”

Sent using Tapatalk App on Android.

 

[spenze]

Hard to believe that the people in charge of our club have turned out to have less cultural awareness than "Banana girl". The fact that they sit on their hands waiting for this to blow over is a disgrace, how many episodes has to happen under Chapmans watch before he admits the job is just too much for him?

 

[StonesThrow]

I'd love to know what actually happened. It's almost unfathomable that after 2 years the players are still unhappy and yet whoever was involved in choosing/running/signing off on it are still there.

2 years is a long time to hold a grudge over something especially as a collective group.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

For a player, who was obviously trying to say as little as possible, to describe the camp as having split the playing group ... is an indication of how bad the camp and it's fallout was.

Really bad by Burton to bring his unqualified mates in.

Awful by the leaders of the club to ok it.

Horrific by those present to not see it going off the rails and stop it in its tracks.

Unbelievable that the coaches let it split the team after the fact. After what the group had been through, the bond they had ... to destroy that in a 4-day camp. Wow. Impressive.

Reminds me of the quote on Voldemort.

"After all, He Who Must Not Be Named did great things – terrible, yes, but great.”

Sent using Tapatalk App on Android.

Totally agree. The bond that this group forged after the loss of Phil Walsh was something commendable to all those looking on. For it to be ripped apart by this camp speaks volumes.No heads have rolled though...
One thing I do know is that if Burton stays I will continue to lose further interest in this club (if that’s even possible).

 

[ManInTheArena]

The camp just won't go away. That interview debunks the "no lingering issues from the camp" line that has been put out by the club. I honestly wonder what it will take to make that true. If there's a divide, how many players do we have to lose, or can a new coach galvanise the squad? It has to be one or the other because I don't think we're winning a flag divided.

 

[Doc_]

Theres 2 ways to make the camp s**t go away.
All the players that went on the camp leave.
Or.
The people responsible for the camp get moved on.

 

[BACCS]

This definitely needs another thread after being discussed at length in the rumours thread over the long weekend...

I can already lay out the discussion for you:

Some posters will agree
Some posters will disagree at relevance 2 years later
Some posters will then call these posters club syphocants

Rinse and repeat

deaneus Drugs Are Bad Mackay? can this be merged with the other camp thread?

 

[John Who]

For those who haven’t got access to the Herald Sun, here’s another link I had to browse through: https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/cou...7/news-story/6a9c13f3a740a7c192059a253d13a748

That reporting is the same style as a McNure or Wilson story. That is, vague connections between what CEY said and that they’re trying to pinpoint the Camp as the origin of the fallout. CEY was saying there were a lot of issues not just one factor, and the morale declined when we no longer had a winning culture like in 2017. He was looking forward to a fresh start.

If it’s a genuine story, why didn’t they prod further and asked him what did happen to declare it a “disaster”? Asking CEY and calling it a “camp stuff up” is a bit ironic, because out of all Crows players, he actually played better and better (2018 to 2019) since the bloody Camp!

 

[1970crow]

Hard to believe that the people in charge of our club have turned out to have less cultural awareness than "Banana girl". The fact that they sit on their hands waiting for this to blow over is a disgrace, how many episodes has to happen under Chapmans watch before he admits the job is just too much for him?

Chapman’s actual job isn’t too much for him. That he’s there, being involved, nearly 4 full days per week is the problem. He’s a banker, he has no place being involved in the running of a football club. He just needs to be a Chairperson and keep his nose out of the day to day.

 

[Sanders]

This definitely needs another thread after being discussed at length in the rumours thread over the long weekend...

I can already lay out the discussion for you:

Some posters will agree
Some posters will disagree at relevance 2 years later
Some posters will then call these posters club syphocants

Rinse and repeat

deaneus Drugs Are Bad Mackay? can this be merged with the other camp thread?

You’re such a lightweight

This thread is ******* essential as for the first time a player has broken ranks

 

[marvin]

What's actually newsworthy here?

 

[Sanders]

For those who haven’t got access to the Herald Sun, here’s another link I had to browse through: https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/cou...7/news-story/6a9c13f3a740a7c192059a253d13a748

That reporting is the same style as a McNure or Wilson story. That is, vague connections between what CEY said and that they’re trying to pinpoint the Camp as the origin of the fallout. CEY was saying there were a lot of issues not just one factor, and the morale declined when we no longer had a winning culture like in 2017. He was looking forward to a fresh start.

If it’s a genuine story, why didn’t they prod further and asked him what did happen to declare it a “disaster”? Asking CEY and calling it a “camp stuff up” is a bit ironic, because out of all Crows players, he actually played better and better (2018 to 2019) since the bloody Camp!

Hope you got your cheque from the club this month?

Or do they make deductions for when you’re less than believable

 

[FR0GGY]

Nothing to see here......

 

[Geoffa32]

I was told by one of our coaches this camp was designed to punish the players for the GF loss. There was a lot of cockiness and "got it in the bag" attitude towards beating Richmond. The idea being to strip them of their egos and build them back up. He said the guys running it were cowboys.

I didnt get a lot of detail, but he did tell me there was a session where the players told some truths about each other among themselves that got awkward.

I am guessing this is where there the disharmony in the playing group started.

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[BACCS]

You’re such a lightweight

This thread is ******* essential as for the first time a player has broken ranks

Can you ever start a post without personal abuse? It’s literally had pages and pages of discussion in other threads already over the weekend, couldn’t just reply there?

 

[Tex200]

I think the most annoying and short sighted take on this is the “ok ok we get it, there was a camp some guys didn’t like - can’t we move on, it can’t have been that bad, it can’t have affected how we’ve played”

When you’re dealing with psychological impacts of any incident(s) you cannot be applying objective tests which point to a general outcome.

In any and all assessments there can only be subjectivity and a willingness to accept that subjectivity for what it is and look at individual outcomes.

The camp didn’t affect all of them but as Feenix has pointed out ad nauseam, one size can’t fit all. There was a % of the group who were deeply affected, and the subsequent loss of trust in management, team mates, coaches - all causes the fractured environment.

You don’t really need to understand why it affected some and not others - and those that it did, shouldn’t need to provide any deeper detail or explanation- just that it did. We shouldn’t then try to overlay our own experience and apply the “toughen up” rubbish.

It also shouldn’t be forgotten because it should serve as a driving force for change of a management team who grossly misjudged what was required and what was being delivered. To have allowed a group of charlottens with no qualifications to run such a camp was negligent.

Imagine if we had appointed unqualified quacks to treat some physical injuries and who made those injuries worse? This is the same thing and it should never be forgotten that a side who challenged for a flag has been reduced to rubble.

 

[Geoffa32]

One thing that needs.to be remembered with "the camp" is that most AFL.players have grown up in a bubble with little to no life experience outside of football and that environment.

They are essentially man sized babies.

It seems this camp was a bit out of the ordinary, as I said above it was poorly ran, but it also probably challenged a lot of them outside of their comfort zone and they did not like that.

I do think if such a camp was implemented for a corporate group with staff in management roles with real life experiences outside of their workplace and can handle some criticism from their peers it would not have been so bad.

But instead it was a group of mental pygmies who would rarely be challenged by their peer group in such a manner. Compacted by the fact the guys running it were ill equipped to handle the situation and resulting fall out.


A great public example of how I see the maturity of most AFL footballers is how Kane Cornes reacts to criticism.

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[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This definitely needs another thread after being discussed at length in the rumours thread over the long weekend...

I can already lay out the discussion for you:

Some posters will agree
Some posters will disagree at relevance 2 years later
Some posters will then call these posters club syphocants

Rinse and repeat

deaneus Drugs Are Bad Mackay? can this be merged with the other camp thread?

I'm rather partial to the sack Burton themed threads I have to admit...

 

[Ramses Red]

Regardless of what actually happened on camp it's clear that it's become utenable for those responsible. Gross mismanagement that has set the club back a number of years

On SM-A520F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mismatched]

I think the most annoying and short sighted take on this is the “ok ok we get it, there was a camp some guys didn’t like - can’t we move on, it can’t have been that bad, it can’t have affected how we’ve played”

When you’re dealing with psychological impacts of any incident(s) you cannot be applying objective tests which point to a general outcome.

In any and all assessments there can only be subjectivity and a willingness to accept that subjectivity for what it is and look at individual outcomes.

The camp didn’t affect all of them but as Feenix has pointed out ad nauseam, one size can’t fit all. There was a % of the group who were deeply affected, and the subsequent loss of trust in management, team mates, coaches - all causes the fractured environment.

You don’t really need to understand why it affected some and not others - and those that it did, shouldn’t need to provide any deeper detail or explanation- just that it did. We shouldn’t then try to overlay our own experience and apply the “toughen up” rubbish.

It also shouldn’t be forgotten because it should serve as a driving force for change of a management team who grossly misjudged what was required and what was being delivered. To have allowed a group of charlottens with no qualifications to run such a camp was negligent.

Imagine if we had appointed unqualified quacks to treat some physical injuries and who made those injuries worse? This is the same thing and it should never be forgotten that a side who challenged for a flag has been reduced to rubble.

I think this is the key issue.

Initially I think the players affected by the camp didn't want to make it a big issue and didn't want to drag the club through mud over it. What they did want is their concerns heard and for some "learnings" to have occurred.

Up shot being, I think the players were largely happy to pin the blame on Collective Minds and as long as the club effectively cut ties or limited their involvement, they were probably happy.

Trouble is sounds like promises were made that there would be some changes, but the second the odd rumour got out the club not only denied any issues, but tried to pass the camp off as a resounding success and trotted Tex and Rory out to back this up. I also suspect those rumours started coming out when it became increasingly obvious that the club weren't actually taking the issues seriously.

By the sounds CM were brought back into the club just before the Melbourne debacle in round 10, when our season wasn't looking too bad at 6-3, which was the catalyst for the wheels to fall off completely.

Trouble is I think we had admin/coaching staff dismissing/downplaying issues both externally/internally and then some senior players who kind of felt it wasn't too much of an issue and just wanted everyone to move on.

Basically it describes an internally fractured football club, which reflects what we've seen on the football field. A side which on paper is still one of the better teams in the comp, but just completely incapable of functioning like an effective team on field.

No doubt there are plenty of other issues and that the reasoning behind the camp, as Geoffa describes appears not unreasonable, unfortunately our way of going about fixing the issue was completely misguided and incompetent and has served to fracture an already mentally vulnerable squad.

The only way to fix this is for a number of players to move on and probably for there to be some consequences for those involved in organising the whole affair.

 

[Elite Crow]

Can you ever start a post without personal abuse? It’s literally had pages and pages of discussion in other threads already over the weekend, couldn’t just reply there?

And people complained it was in the rumour thread

 

[CrowMan90]

Hopefully CEY saying this puts more pressure on those involved, who are still at the club.
Can only hope this isn’t a grenade from CEY but a way of getting those responsible out.