Changes for 4th Test vs India.

[The Passenger]

On the other hand, our potential replacements are Khawaja, who has never played in India before, failed in the tour match, has a tendency to get bogged down, and is already acknowledged to be very weak against spin, and Maxwell, who is talented but a slogger, failed with the bat in the one Test he's played, and also failed in the tour matches.

I wouldn't be opposed to playing Maxwell as a spinner ahead of Doherty, but neither of them have a greater claim to a top 7 spot ahead of any of the other batsmen.

yeah the reserves aren't great options but khawaja was next in line before his indiscretion, and given smith did pretty well maybe khawaja might go ok.

not having played in india shouldn't count against khawaja. half the team had never been there to play first class cricket before i would reckon.

khawaja should be in for clarke. there is really no point in playing clarke in this game if he isn't 100%. if he's fit clarke stays in.

the other question is if wade's fit, do we go with haddin-wade, haddin-moises, wade-moises. surely haddin didn't do enough to edge out wade so haddin-moises combo is not a goer unless wade in unfit.

i guess wade-haddin or wade-moises could depend on clarke's fitness. without clarke haddin will be a capable captain, and an experienced person in an inexperienced line-up.

personally think the batting needs pretty much a clean out, and if that means a very inexperienced line-up for the ashes so be it, aiming that the guys will gel and be ready for the return ashes. this could be partially offset by the introduction of george bailey to test cricket which i can't believe wasn't done for india given his performance for tasmania over the last nearly 10 years, his form coming into this season (this season has struggled but only a few innings), and in the ODI's he has shown he is capable of stepping up to international level.

i'm just not sure i see cowan, hughes and watson as potential long term batsmen any more. i'm not convinced khawaja but at least there is a good technique there to fall back on. i never saw smith as one but i'll give him benefit of the doubt after the last test but i'm not expecting any repeats any time soon. moises started great but hasn't just struggled since, he's hardly been able to lay bat on ball. we can't just hope to invent an all rounder at test level either.

when dave warner is your second best batting option then things are very shaky. and as i've said numerous times jimmy anderson could do a real number on him. barring a run really really low scores (and injury or off field shit) warner will play all 10 ashes tests, but come the end of that series i wouldn't be shocked if his average is down in the low to mid 30's and his test career at a real crossroads.

 

[Belnakor]

Watson must have been given the nod otherwise i doubt he would be flying back to India the day after his baby was born

 

[Footy Smarts]

Maxwell also is on his first trip to India, failed in the tour match with both bat and ball, and failed with the bat in his Test.

He bowled a total of 4 overs and got a wicket (the #6 for the opposition). How is that a failure with the ball?

In the little bowling Maxwell's had he's actually been good. He's only bowled 30 overs this tour but has an average under 30 and a strike rate of 36. All of his 5 wickets have been top 7 batsmen. In contrast Doherty's bowled over 3 times as many overs for only 7 wickets including 3 tail-enders and only 1 top order test wicket. He also averages 50 with a strike rate of 87. If it comes down to bowling I know which one I'd prefer.

Maxwell's batting has been ordinary which is why picking him as a #7 or higher would be absurd.

 

[Caesar]

Perhaps what I should have said is that he was nothing special with the ball. From all accounts he got pasted a bit and didn't look that threatening, while Lyon and Henriques went to town.

 

[Phone]

yeah the reserves aren't great options but khawaja was next in line before his indiscretion, and given smith did pretty well maybe khawaja might go ok.

smith did pretty well because he can play spin pretty well

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We need to retain a 5th bowling option.

Four can starve just as cheaply as five.

 

[The Passenger]

Watson must have been given the nod otherwise i doubt he would be flying back to India the day after his baby was born

he's playing 100%, and i'd say with or without clarke.

i don't agree with what happened there, but his response to it was even worse. "allright **** it, i'll retire"... and he's hardly a dispensable member of the team at the moment.

 

[Caesar]

not to make consistent scores. not one aside from clarke has.

So? Khawaja and Maxwell haven't show the ability to make scores at all.

If we had quality, form batsmen sitting on the sidelines then it would be a different story. Selectors don't drop players just for the sake of trying someone different though. They need to have a reason to think that the replacements are going to do better.

At this point, you're better off sticking with the guys who are acclimatised to the conditions and the bowlers and have at least some runs on the board.

 

[The Passenger]

Selectors don't drop players just for the sake of trying someone different though.

so just accept mediocrity?

looking at my team the only batting change i've advocated for the fourth test is khawaja for clarke if clarke is unfit.

i've also said wade should come back in for moises, not haddin. all three of those blokes have been playing anyway.

the blokes i think *could* make a different (rogers, doolan, burns, bailey) are in a different hemisphere. clearly not playing the next test, although i'm not entirely convinced on those guys either but i don't know. something's gonna have to change.

 

[Caesar]

Accepting mediocrity, erring on the side of team stability. Whatever you want to call it, for better or worse selectors aren't usually in the business of chopping and changing players without a pretty good reason to think the new guy is going to do better. If they want to give someone unproven a go, they generally wait until there is a genuine vacancy for them to slot into.

Haddin's no longer a member of the side, and it's not like he set the world on fire with his batting in Mohali. I'd be very surprised if he stayed in the team at the expense of any of the other batsmen, all of whom were originally selected and all of whom have performed better than Haddin at some point on this tour.

 

[laminex]

Forfeit.

Read the title it says changes, we did that for the first 3.

That article is a crock of shit.

If Clarke had gone in, obviously injured, and either got out or aggravated the injury he would have copped it as well.

He can't win. People just take shots at the bloke for the sake of it, regardless of what he does.

In this instance, he did the right thing. Rested it overnight and showed a bit of faith in his other batsmen in the process. Which, might I point out, worked in the case of Hughes.

Spot on.

 

[Santana]

But who is burying their heads in the sand? I really believe the selectors are trying their hardest to choose the best team they can.

In the domestic threads someone put out the four day Shield team of the year from last year. Needless to say this year's team is going to have hardly any of the same batsmen.

The selectors can't pick players who don't exist and they can't invent them.

The selectors aren't the main problem, neither is the captain or the coach. It's CA and the state of the sport in general.

I am wacthing the sport die slowly in front of me. I am sorry if that bothers me.

Just look at the state of the Sheffield Shield. It literally can't produce batsmen anymore. I have lost complete faith in the system. The talent pool isn't big in this country and cricket clearly isn't getting its share anymore.

If this isn't the lowest point for Cricket in this country on and off the field then someone show me anther one.

And what's being done about it? We're going to play more BBL...

 

[Harmichael]

Pattinson will replace Starc (duh)

Figjam Watson unfortunately will replace Clarke, even though Khawaja should.

Maxwell should come in for One Hit Wonder Henriques.

Cement Shoes Hughes should be dropped but won't.

I'd rather Hack Haddin on a turning wicket to Woeful Wade aka Anil Default.

 

[shinboner spiggs]

meg lanning anyone? seeing the ball better than look-at-me watson

 

[Zgope1]

The selectors aren't the main problem, neither is the captain or the coach. It's CA and the state of the sport in general.

I am wacthing the sport die slowly in front of me. I am sorry if that bothers me.

Just look at the state of the Sheffield Shield. It literally can't produce batsmen anymore. I have lost complete faith in the system. The talent pool isn't big in this country and cricket clearly isn't getting its share anymore.

If this isn't the lowest point for Cricket in this country on and off the field then someone show me anther one.

And what's being done about it? We're going to play more BBL...

I agree that there's less talent than there was with the past seeing players such as Hayden, Law and Hodge knock the door down to no avail. However, i don't really think it's that glum at the moment, we just have a very raw batting order.

Martyn and Hayden took a while at test level as will players that earnt their stripes with shield runs being: Hughes, Warner and Cowan. The India series has showed our point of development at the moment and it's shown that if you give players like Hughes and Cowan a chance to improve in that environment they absolutely will.

I think our batting has been exposed because our bowlers have struggled so hard to get wickets that we keep selecting all rounders instead of the other guys that are working hard for a spot. That's a problem pretty unique to our tours of India, and isn't something we should freak out over. Hopefully our spin bowling department and our player management is better by the next tour there and if that happens we'll be fine. I do believe we'll have better spinners next time we get over there and i do believe after our next 3 test series we should some more people competent at managing our bowlers.

What happened with Siddle on this tour killed us. He didn't rock up until the 3rd test because he was underdone because he was put on ice for too long. Now that he's got some rhythm he's showing us what he could've done earlier if he hadn't been mismanaged. The follow on effect of this was profound in this series.

 

[southernswannies]

Why are people bothering to respond with serious teams if Watson's not in their squads? It's NOT happening, he WILL play the 4th Test. I know the typical mindset has set in for alot of people that you should "hate the player who has lost form" but reality is, he's vice-captain, he's playing.

Warner
Cowan
Hughes
Watson (c)
Smith
Wade
Maxwell
Johnson
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon

 

[Doodlesweaver]

What happened with Siddle on this tour killed us. He didn't rock up until the 3rd test because he was underdone because he was put on ice for too long. Now that he's got some rhythm he's showing us what he could've done earlier if he hadn't been mismanaged. The follow on effect of this was profound in this series.

Well, that was Siddle's fourth match or maybe fifth (I can't remember if he played both tour matches). Do you really believe that he was having to 'warm-up' for the three matches before hand? What happens next time we have a tour out of Shield season? If it takes him three/four matches on tour to get going, he's of no use to us.

Sometimes, bowlers simply don't bowl well or don't get lucky with wickets.

 

[The_Reaper]

Why are people bothering to respond with serious teams if Watson's not in their squads? It's NOT happening, he WILL play the 4th Test. I know the typical mindset has set in for alot of people that you should "hate the player who has lost form" but reality is, he's vice-captain, he's playing.

Warner
Cowan
Hughes
Watson (c)
Smith
Wade
Maxwell
Johnson
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon

It's an indictment on CA that Watson is still VC

 

[King Elvis]

Drop Maxwell, get Khawaja in there. Investment in the future - he needs to play a game over there.

 

[swansfan51]

Why are people bothering to respond with serious teams if Watson's not in their squads? It's NOT happening, he WILL play the 4th Test. I know the typical mindset has set in for alot of people that you should "hate the player who has lost form" but reality is, he's vice-captain, he's playing.

It isn't due to form, its because he was dropped for poor team discipline, then went home and threatened to retire. Exactly what part of his actions over the past week shows that he has improved what saw him dropped in the first place?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Why are people bothering to respond with serious teams if Watson's not in their squads? It's NOT happening, he WILL play the 4th Test. I know the typical mindset has set in for alot of people that you should "hate the player who has lost form" but reality is, he's vice-captain, he's playing.

Warner
Cowan
Hughes
Watson (c)
Smith
Wade
Maxwell
Johnson
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon

Not at all, I have hated him for much longer than that. But, you should "drop the player who has lost form" when there is a probably better alternative.

 

[The_Reaper]

It isn't due to form, its because he was dropped for poor team discipline, then went home and threatened to retire. Exactly what part of his actions over the past week shows that he has improved what saw him dropped in the first place?

The fact that he hasn't done anything with the bat at test or shield level this decade does play some part.

 

[southernswannies]

It isn't due to form, its because he was dropped for poor team discipline, then went home and threatened to retire. Exactly what part of his actions over the past week shows that he has improved what saw him dropped in the first place?

Are you honestly justifying Mickeys actions on the 4 players? or are you just finding another reason to hate on Watto? I find it ironic that everyone was crying out to how bad CA dealt with the "homework" scandal yet when one player speaks out about it with similar views, he's hated on? Khawaja and Johnson didn't want to try anything just in case1 and Patto's too young to risk his future.

On a sidenote, Mickey Arthur and co (yes, you Clarke) are too clique like to let the people they don't like into the team ala O'Keefe and Kat.

 

[Caesar]

Regardless of Watson's form or discipline or suitability for VC - he wouldn't have been flown back to India if he wasn't going to walk onto the field.

He is, rightly or wrongly, one of the few players we can be certain is going to be in the XI.

 

[Belnakor]

It's an indictment on CA that Watson is still VC

who would be your pick other than him though? you'd be choosing between... Warner/Wade/Siddle... ?