Changes for the 3rd Test

[Beutbrute]

Interesting article on the Wade v Nevill debate

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...d/news-story/68438355c68be64948560a70c07ae4bf

 

[iluvparis]

Interesting article on the Wade v Nevill debate

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...d/news-story/68438355c68be64948560a70c07ae4bf

So yes - Nevill has a higher first class average if you take out the games that actually matter

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

If Lyon is dropped the important question that requires answering is....who will lead the southern cross song?

Gotta win a game to worry about that!

 

[Underdog]

Interesting article on the Wade v Nevill debate

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...d/news-story/68438355c68be64948560a70c07ae4bf

Terrible article IMO.

It's full of cherrypicked stats, many with a minimal sample size.

The notion that player X is better at Shield level than player Y is not relevant to their test performances.

I'm no fan of Wade, but Nevill just isn't working for us. It's not all his fault, it it's an issue nevertheless. I'd rather us try an alternative then sit around doing nothing.

 

[bird_man]

I had a good laugh at that fox sports article. He basically took out all test stats to show us that Neville is as good as Wade with the bat.

 

[Underdog]

Just had a quick squiz at some stats and there look to only be about 3 keepers over the past 20 odd years with inferior averages than Nevill but player more tests. 2 from WI and 1 from Bangladesh. We're not a great side at the moment, but we're reasonable. We should expect more from our keeper - particularly if we're identifying areas for improvement.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Just had a quick squiz at some stats and there look to only be about 3 keepers over the past 20 odd years with inferior averages than Nevill but player more tests. 2 from WI and 1 from Bangladesh. We're not a great side at the moment, but we're reasonable. We should expect more from our keeper - particularly if we're identifying areas for improvement.

Neville's biggest problem is he's been hung out to dry by his top order. It's left him exposed from a batting perspective. He's not a bad bat, he's a solid bat who occasionally makes some solid 50s. Unfortunately, when you top order keeps folding like a deck of cards, you get thrown in to that as well. Had the Aussie top order been more solid, Neville's record wouldn't have even been questioned.

 

[bird_man]

My wife is not going to be too pleased on the weekend. Shield cricket starting at 10.30 means almost 12 hours of red ball cricket on tv!

 

[iluvparis]

This is another myth along the lines of the 'Nevill would bat better if he was higher up the order' argument.

 

[Big Bryza]

I think we need to stop this talk suggesting Wade is a keeper. It is giving the great glovemen of the cricketing world a bad name.
Call it as it is. He is nothing more than a clumsy "backstop"

Na mate

 

[Big Bryza]

Because a keeper's best attributes should be his keeping. The batting is secondary. If you can find one that can do both, great, but without anyone else knocking down the door, they probably should have stuck with him. And I'm no particular fan of Nevill.

Na, an average of barely 20 with the stick just doesn't cut the mustard for a test keeper anymore. His keeping has been serviceable at best in recent times anyway.

Wade gets judged very harshly. Was 25 years old last time he played test cricket. Has improved a lot in that 3 year hiatus.

 

[Belnakor]

This is another myth along the lines of the 'Nevill would bat better if he was higher up the order' argument.

hes been not out twice in 23 innings. If he needed to bat higher up the order he'd be continuously getting stranded. And its not like he is getting out "hitting out"

 

[Belnakor]

Wade gets judged very harshly. Was 25 years old last time he played test cricket. Has improved a lot in that 3 year hiatus.

they are putting the same output but Wade is 3 years younger. seems like a pretty simple decision tbh.

 

[Chaisa]

About the changes in the side:

* Handscomb was the right call. His career average may not be brilliant but it's a lot better in recent times, his techinque is decent, and scoring a double when spots were on the line suggests a strong temperment. Was worthy of the selection.
* Bird/Sayers was the right call, don't really mind who gets selected there (Bird has runs on the board, Sayers offers something a bit different and has been in better form). I don't really like how Mennie's selection got handled, but he was clearly not Test standard.
* Renshaw, I dunno. I can see the logic but for me it's too early, you have to be pretty damn exceptional to get picked at that age with that experience IMO and his record isn't quite exceptional. On the other hand there weren't really a lot of better options - Marsh was injured, Burns's position was untenable, Bancroft hasn't kicked on. So it's something I don't mind.
* Wade...hard to say. I do agree Nevill wasn't doing enough. Yes you could argue he hasn't had great positions to bat in, but there comes a point where you can't really keep on making excuses for him. And Wade was next in line. Against that though Wade's recent form with the bat hardly inspires confidence, either. And his keeping is a lot worse and his vision issues could make the D/N Tests hard for him to handle. So I'm not convinced I would've done it. Even now Nevill may still be the best of bad options.
* Lyon is probably lucky to stay in the side, but O'Keefe and Agar were injured and Holland was worse than Lyon in SL. So he kinda stays in the side by default. I'd have considered picking 4 quicks and someone like Maxwell though. Which brings me to my next point....
* Maddinson though? Makes no sense. He simply hasn't done enough. There's like 10 better options for a middle order pick. Patterson was clearly the in-form batsman outside of the Test side (barring maybe Handscomb). Ferguson had put up several good seasons with the bat at Shield level, one Test is hardly enough to prove that he is a failure at this level. And if you wanted a bowling option, surely someone like Stoinis or Maxwell made more sense? Even Head. Strange, strange selection, even if he does have some upside.

 

[Big Bryza]

A dropped catch is worth more than 10 runs IMO.

Wade's keeping is deplorable - to make up for the runs he costs us as a keeper, he would need to average the same as a top 5 batsman (if not more) and as such - just pick him as a batsman.

IMO - picking the Test keeper is pretty simple. Line of the keepers who are of international quality with the gloves. That doesn't mean they have to be Ian Healy, just international quality.

Once you have that group - then go pick your best batsman.

Wade wouldn't make it to the second set of criteria. Mind boggling decision.

See, now you're just talking utter garbage. Actually watch Wade keep FFS.

 

[Big Bryza]

Are you 16?

Peter Nevill has played 17 matches and averages 22.28 with 3 50's.

After 17 matches, Ian Healy had an average of 19.38 with 1 50.

Nevill hasn't set the world on fire, but he's hardly the disaster you keep making him out to be.

Wtf? Healy was keeper 20 years ago. The game has changed since then. Keeper needs to average 35+ or GTFO.

 

[Big Bryza]

they are putting the same output but Wade is 3 years younger. seems like a pretty simple decision tbh.

Pardon?

 

[Underdog]

Neville's biggest problem is he's been hung out to dry by his top order. It's left him exposed from a batting perspective. He's not a bad bat, he's a solid bat who occasionally makes some solid 50s. Unfortunately, when you top order keeps folding like a deck of cards, you get thrown in to that as well. Had the Aussie top order been more solid, Neville's record wouldn't have even been questioned.

He averages 22 when coming in with a sub 100 score and 22.29 overall. It's not really impacting his average.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

See, now you're just talking utter garbage. Actually watch Wade keep FFS.

I have - for far too many tests

His concentration is poor, his comes up from his feet too early and he is slow to move.

Balls he should be taking on his inside hip (RHBowler to RHBatsman) he takes on his outside hip.

Like Haddin - he is capable of some remarkable catches - but it is the mundane ball to ball keeping that hurts.

He's had a while out of the team now - i hope he has spent that working his box off.

 

[Underdog]

That comparison would have a lot more credence if the role hadn't changed completely since Healy's day.

Watling - came in and more or less averaged 40 straight away. has dipped a bit since.
Safraz Ahmed - averages mid 40s
QDK - is arguably the best batsman in his team at the moment
Bairstow - can't keep but boy can he bat. Averaging 42.
Dowrich - finally Ramdin gets the flick, this bloke is averaging mid 30s and passing 50 every few innings
No idea who the Sri Lankan keeper is because it seems to change every game but I'd imagine he's doing better than Nevill.
Even Saha is averaging around 30 and he's shit .

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/WicketKeeping/WicketKeepingList.asp

They're basically all comfortably better and most with worse averages got ditched after a handful of tests. Nevill has played 17.

 

[The_Reaper]

Nevills biggest problem with his battting average is that our top and middle orders flattracked so well against the Windies and Kiwis last summer that he didn't get the easy runs on offer to boost that average up to 30.

 

[Underdog]

Nevills biggest problem with his battting average is that our top and middle orders flattracked so well against the Windies and Kiwis last summer that he didn't get the easy runs on offer to boost that average up to 30.

He averaged 32.5 against New Zealand in 4 innings, hardly a hugely boosting average. If he averaged that in every innings that he didn't bat in those series', he'd have an average of 24.56

 

[The_Reaper]

He averaged 32.5 against New Zealand in 4 innings, hardly a hugely boosting average. If he averaged that in every innings that he didn't bat in those series', he'd have an average of 24.56

And against the Windies?

Also what were the circumstances he went in against the Kiwis?

Coming in at 5/500 isn't really an opportunity to build a score.

 

[PhatBoy]

And against the Windies?

Also what were the circumstances he went in against the Kiwis?

Coming in at 5/500 isn't really an opportunity to build a score.

No but the 40 times he's batted when the innings is 20 overs old have all been opportunities .

 

[ICCHILL007]

Just because the role had changed doesn't magically imbue us with a quality keeper that can also bat. That's just the reality.

Besides, I'm not disputing that Nevill needed to pick up his game. I'm disputing the idiotic claim that he's the got the worst batting record of an Australian keeper in living memory.

Neville is the worst Australian keeper batsmen I have seen in my lifetime ! Healy was way more damaging on occasions , I have never liked wade but he deserved another chance to prove that he has improved his keeping