Changes For the sydney test

[The Passenger]

the team for sydney will be

hughes (if katich is fit, it will be a 50/50 call)
watson
ponting
clarke
hussey
smith
haddin
hauritz/o'keefe/beer (should be one of the first two, but the selectors may not want to back away from their strange selection of beer)
siddle
two of johnson, hilfenhaus, bollinger or copeland (with the first two the most likely)

what i would like to see done:

khawaja (katich if he is fit)
watson
hussey
ponting
clarke
smith (khawaja if katich is fit, with khawaja batting 3 and everyone sliding down one spot)
haddin
hauritz
johnson
siddle
copeland

that's three changes which isn't excessive. one of which shouldn't exist cause khawaja should've been in the team before hughes. and an extra change if katich is fit but that's just bringing a guy back into the team whose been pretty good over the last twelve months.

it would be ponting's last game. clarke and smith need runs. don't like johnson and siddle together but with harris injured and hilfenhaus still unthreatening there's not much other option.

i just can't see hughes making it at test level. he came onto the scene and it was something incredible. but plenty of guys like that have been sorted out by the top line bowlers and i think he'll be one.

by the time sri lanka series comes around our line up could look like (assuming clarke fails which will be suprising if he doesn't the way he is batting)

1. katich
2. watson
3. khawaja
4. hussey
5, 6. two of a) marsh, b) ferguson, c) d hussey, d) smith, e) cosgrove (no where near the team in selectors minds i know), f) white (needs more runs. as said in another thread i don't think he should play the home one dayers. he'll be in the world cup team. there's nothing for him to prove there. see if he can get some runs in the shield and press for test honours) g) clarke
7. haddin
8. hauritz/o'keefe (see how SOK goes for NSW while Hauritz is playing ODI's)
9. Siddle
10. Copeland
11. Harris

smith needs a couple of years in shield IMO but if he plays well in sydney or scores more runs in shield than he certainly should be in consideration for sri lanka. another option is haddin at six and paine keeping.

a possible direction to go with this team is that in a couple of years time when katich, haddin and hussey are pulling up stumps.... by that stage i'd rather watson bat four (but that isn't possible at the moment). at this stage you can make a decision on whether khawaja is capable of opening the batting or whether young Hill from Victoria can take it to the next level. And you've also got young Maddinson opening for NSW. So you'd probably be looking at two of those three opening with Khawaja batting three if both Maddinson and Hill are good enough for tests. Wes Robinson will be a reliable back up when needed but don't think he's good enough to be a permenant full time test opener.

A rough guide to our team in two years time
1,2,3: at least two of Maddinson (could possibly be in for Katich the indian series next summer depending on the form of the two), Khawaja, Hill
4. Watson
5,6: two of Lynn, Marsh, Ferguson, Smith, White, Cosgrove, Clarke (if he's refound his form) and any other batsmen who emerges in the next 12 to 24 months... one of this bunch could be batting 3 should one of Maddinson, Hill or Khawaja not be performing at test level or (in the case of Maddinson or Hill) not have the performances at shield level to justify moving up a level to test cricket
7. Paine or Wade (most likely Paine)
8. hauritz/o'keefe/boyce/holland (probably given chances at cementing their spot in the team in that order)
9. Siddle or Johnson
10, 11. two of Copeland, Hazlewood, Pattinson, Cutting (possibly three if Siddle or Johnson not performing well enough)

 

[pistonbroke23]

If he averages 36 but is an outstanding captain that more than makes up for the shortfall. Mike Brearley wasn't a great batsman for England 30 years ago but was such a good captain he turned around the entire team. Remember 1981? Cant knock top-line leadership. If Clarke and Ponting go we need a captain, pure and simple. A good one.

I just wish we had a bloke who was a successful state captain , who had plenty of experience ,who has been ave. 50 odd for 2 or three years. if he could feild well that would be a bonus.If he could bowl a bit ,that would be sensational.Dont we all think that would be a dream come true right now.........WELL WE ****ING HAVE ONE. CAMERON WHITE.

 

[The Governor]

I would pick the Fifth Test XI with an eye on the long term future of Australian cricket. I would look at picking players with an aim of developing 10 to 15 year test match players for Australia.

Here is my Test XI for Sydney:

1) Shane Watson
2) Usman Khawaja
3) Aaron Finch
4) Ricky Ponting (CAPTAIN)
5) Cameron White (VC)
6) Stephen Smith
7) Brad Haddin
8) Peter Siddle
9) Jason Krezja
10) James Pattinson
11) CLint MacKay

Watson is an opening bat in the mould of the late South African Eddie Barlow. During the 60s, Eddie Barlow scored runs and bowled a minimum of 10 to 14 overs with great success. And, the most important thing is we need Shane Watson to play test cricket on a consistent basis. He has the best batting technique in the lineup and he wants to open the batting.

Aaron Finch is a lateral thinking choice. He fits the criteria of our pass successful number 3 batsmen in Ponting, Ian Chappell, Lindsay Hassett, David Boon and Sir Donald Bradman. Finch can defend and attack whilst he can play the pull, hook and cut shots.

Stephen Smith bats at number 6 whilst Cameron White plays at number 5. White is an excellent first slipper and he has an excellent tactical mind. He can change the course of the game with his batting.

Smith is long term project at 6. During his stint of 38 runs, he showed his ability to put the bad ball away. And, he reminds me of a young Stephen Waugh in 1986. He will figure out his game and having a batting-leg spinning allrounder is a handy asset in any side.

We have to admit the fact that great bowlers come around every 25 years (Lillee and Thommo 74-75; McGrath and Warne 1995-1996 to 2006-2007). We just have to accept the fact that we need a leg spin bowler who is around a 3 to 4.5 star class.

Clint MacKay is a must selection. Our pass successful test sides had a stock bowler who could dry up the runs from one end by hitting the ball in the right areas on a consistent basis. Paul Reiffel, Rodney Hogg and Stuart Clark performed the role to a tee. Clint MacKay has shown the ability for Victoria to dry up the runs for Victoria and he can bowl a good line and length on a consistent basis to allow Peter Siddle and James Pattinson to attack from the other end.

James Pattinson is a shock selection. He has a huge amount of ability and he has the height to create a great line and length to the opposing batsmen.

Michael Clarke is out of the side. I have not been a huge fan of Clarke. He may need to consider a reconciliation with Lara to regain his place in the side. When he was with Lara Bingle, he was scoring runs. At the minute, he is more worried about doing ads for Vodafone and adding more tatoos to his body!!

I would seriously look at CA introducing incentives to Cricket Victoria to play Alex Keath and Michael Hill on a consistent basis at Shield level. Keath is our next allround prospect. And, the kid will wear a Baggy Green Cap for Australia in the next 12 months.

THE GOV

The Gov is a lateral thinker in the mould of the late Hookesy.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

Anyone suggesting we drop Hughes should be banned immediately.

He's a young kid trying his guts out. He's clearly got talent. Twice this test the senior bloke at the other end has tried to run him out, to his full credit he went for it and didn't leave his partner stranded. That deserves some credit. He's also looked pretty good this test before a lapse of concentration in the first innings, and a lapse of concentration by Watson in the second.

His confidence will be non-existent at the moment, but he is the future. So this is where we need to back him in. Like we used to do when we'd pick kids. Drop him now and he's ruined forever. Surely we're not that stupid.

Well said. And even if Katich is fit to play in Sydney, Hughes must stay in the side. Katich is a 36 year old who is now struggling with recurring injuries. Hughes is a match winner of the future who needs to be given every chance.

 

[beez]

Love listening to you on SEN Gov Although, you have way too many Victorians in your team.

 

[Cleavy]

Here is my Test XI for Sydney

we heard you the first 800 times (plus subsequent revisions and tweakings)...

 

[The Governor]

Love listening to you on SEN Gov Although, you have way too many Victorians in your team.

Well, Mitchell Johnson is a poor man's version of Wasim Akram and he needs to spend time with DK Lillee and Wasim Akram.

Hilfenhauss is the poor man's version of Terry Alderman whilst Ryan Harris is just an honest workhorse.

If you look at the performance in Perth, any fast bowler could have got a bag of wickets with the Fremantle Doctor blowing in the wind!!

 

[The_Reaper]

Well, Mitchell Johnson is a poor man's version of Wasim Akram and he needs to spend time with DK Lillee and Wasim Akram.

Hilfenhauss is the poor man's version of Terry Alderman whilst Ryan Harris is just an honest workhorse.

If you look at the performance in Perth, any fast bowler could have got a bag of wickets with the Fremantle Doctor blowing in the wind!!

Except for Siddle and Mackay a few years earlier.

 

[The Passenger]

Aaron Finch is bog ordinary. don't know why you've got so excited about him.

Of the young Vic batsmen Michael HIll is definately the most talented.

Pattinson is probably the most talented of the young quicks in Australia.

Clint McKay is a reliable bowler but don't see him ever being a top line test bowler. probably a reliable Kasprowicz/Bichel standard back up.

 

[Outshined]

Here is my Test XI for Sydney:

1) Shane Watson
2) Usman Khawaja
3) Aaron Finch
4) Ricky Ponting (CAPTAIN)
5) Cameron White (VC)
6) Stephen Smith
7) Brad Haddin
8) Peter Siddle
9) Jason Krezja
10) James Pattinson
11) CLint MacKay

Cumon Gov, at least try to hide the Vic bias by putting Clarke as 12th

Finch is not a test number 3...yet anyway. I'd rather keep Hughes and let Khawaja bat at 3. If you're going to chose a young pace bowler at least make it Copeland. Pattinson needs a full season or at the very least some ODI exposure (which he may soon get). McKay? Krejza?

 

[wild side]

Well, Mitchell Johnson is a poor man's version of Wasim Akram and he needs to spend time with DK Lillee and Wasim Akram.

Hilfenhauss is the poor man's version of Terry Alderman whilst Ryan Harris is just an honest workhorse.

If you look at the performance in Perth, any fast bowler could have got a bag of wickets with the Fremantle Doctor blowing in the wind!!

The Doctor wasn't in for the first two days, it was an easterly or sou-east ! That helped Johnson's inswing enormously.
We don't have huge taxpayer funded colosseum's in the west, just little stands here and there around the ground.
Helps the bowlers big time, obviously.
I reckon we is due for a big bit of bloodletting in the Aussie cricket team, with Ponting, Neilsen and Hilditch all to get marching orders.
Problem is Greg Chappell will then be Chairman of Selectors, and his record in team organisation is mediocre at best. The Indians were bloody happy when he left !!

 

[The Governor]

The Doctor wasn't in for the first two days, it was an easterly or sou-east ! That helped Johnson's inswing enormously.
We don't have huge taxpayer funded colosseum's in the west, just little stands here and there around the ground.
Helps the bowlers big time, obviously.
I reckon we is due for a big bit of bloodletting in the Aussie cricket team, with Ponting, Neilsen and Hilditch all to get marching orders.
Problem is Greg Chappell will then be Chairman of Selectors, and his record in team organisation is mediocre at best. The Indians were bloody happy when he left !!

I will be happy with GS Chappell as Chairman of Selectors. He was a selector from 1984 to 1988 and he was mentored by Lawrie Sawle who saw the need to bring in youth after the 1985-86 New Zealand debacle in Australia.

The positive thing is GS Chappell is not involved in a coaching capacity. Even though he is an excellent batting coach, his most important asset would be to advise our batsmen in one on one private coaching sessions.

Chappell has a great eye for spotting cricket talent. During his time as selector, he did pick Peter Taylor and Ian Healy on gut instincts whilst he had a major part in picking David Boon, Geoff Marsh, Dean Jones, Steve Waugh, Craig McDermott and Tim May as our major core group of test players when Allan Border was leading the side.

He resigned from his selection post due to family reasons.

During his stint as South Australian coach, he did play a huge part in puting the ice on the cake on Darren Lehmann's batting and improving Greg Blewett's batting technique to regain his spot in the test side from 1997 to 2001.

Finally, people have forgotten that he played an important part in bringing in MS Dohni and a bunch of Indian youngsters into the test and one day lineups. Even though he caused a few problems with the Ganguly saga, he did put India on the right course to becoming a powerful test match nation.

An individual who is prepared to make the hard decisions for the long term future of an elite sporting team should be held in high respect. At AFL level, don't coaches and AFL List Managers make the hard calls on players' careers?

THE GOV

 

[aussie1st]

I'd go

Watson
Hughes
Khawaja
Hussey
White (c)
Smith
Haddin
O'Keefe/Hauritz
Johnson
Siddle
Copeland/Bollinger

White in for his captaincy and he has a 100 against half of the English attack and has been solid in domestic cricket.

 

[The_Reaper]

I'd go

Watson
Hughes
Khawaja
Hussey
White (c)
Smith
Haddin
O'Keefe/Hauritz
Johnson
Siddle
Copeland/Bollinger

White in for his captaincy and he has a 100 against half of the English attack and has been solid in domestic cricket.

batting average of 28 is solid?

 

[aussie1st]

Was more talking about what hes done in previous seasons where he averaged near 50.

 

[The_Reaper]

Was more talking about what hes done in previous seasons where he averaged near 50.

We're hardly in the position to be picking out of form players.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

batting average of 28 is solid?

So what? Look at Smith and Hughes averages this season-the selectors considered those good enough to be picked.

White is a proven performer at shield level for a number of years, as well as at county level, and what's more he's the only genuine tactically adept captaincy option that we have. Would you like to tell me who the alternative captain is?

 

[Yoda_]

Aaron Finch is bog ordinary. don't know why you've got so excited about him.

Of the young Vic batsmen Michael HIll is definately the most talented.

Pattinson is probably the most talented of the young quicks in Australia.

Clint McKay is a reliable bowler but don't see him ever being a top line test bowler. probably a reliable Kasprowicz/Bichel standard back up.

LOL

Don't know much about Victorian cricket now do you Black Thunder

Read a bit from you, and you do know your cricket, just not on Victorian matters.

Aaron Finch is one of the most hard working batsmen in the Victorian squad, he has tweaked his game which has so far reaped him a steering role in the Victorian line up, is one of the leading run makers in the Shield season (to date) and is highly, highly regarded inside Jolimont headquaters.

Michael Hill on the other hand is just a young tyro, a poor mans Phillip Hughes who has struggled to come to grips with the honors of playing for the baggy Victorian cap.

His thrashing style of game he had right throughout his junior career has simply been found out by the domestic bowlers, he is over rated and people are still living off his antiques from that U/19 world cup. He should not be opening the batting for Victoria in the longer form of the game, whilst in the shorter form of the game he should be opening and not down at 8.

Do agree that James Pattinson is (one of) the most talented young bowlers in Australian cricket at the moment, he is very, very talented and providing he gets his body right could be anything.

Here's hoping we don't have another Jason Gillespie on our hands where we only truly see his feets for a short amount of time.

 

[aussie1st]

We're hardly in the position to be picking out of form players.

And we are hardly in the position to pick players that have one excellent season with years of poor ones. Ferguson and McDonald are prime examples, both have been awesome this season but they have been average in the past season. If they do it again next season then by all means pick them. I've gone with the past record and given the benefit of the doubt to White whose averaged 28 in 5 innings which is never a good indication but he has a 100 against the English bowling attack which is more than can be said for a number of our batsmen right now.

 

[Tazwegian]

Guys, please realise that most of the untested guys being thrown into the Sydney test by people on the forum are fairly substandard. We have to learn to realise that Australia just aren't very good anymore, and our domestic cricketers are mostly even worse than who we already have in the team. True, we have some promising bowlers coming through, but sadly Harris, Siddle, Hilfy, and Johnson are pretty much our best for now. As for Finch and Shaun Marsh, meh, they are ok, but nothing special at all.

Everyone criticised the selectors for picking Doherty, but he is probably a better selection than Beer. Hauritz is still our best choice in the spin department.

I would like to see Ponting *rested* for the last test so he can get some form in first class cricket. Maybe he should step down as Captain, just concentrate on his batting, because with him in form, Australia would be a much deadlier side. I think the weight of the captaincy is really effecting his batting.

With an eye to the future, play Khawaja, who looks the goods. I think it is time to rebuild the Australian team. Blood the youngsters like they do in AFL, but don't expect them to be very good for at least two or so years.

 

[eddiesmith]

Can anyone tell me why White should be selected?

His shield record with that the bat this season is worse than Smith.

I don't see how its possible for some to complain about Smith's selection whilst advocating White's.

White averages 10 more runs at test level

Plus he fixes fielding problems and leadership problems, made a century against the English attack in Hobart and has shown a good improvement at International level in the last 18 months

Its hard for a player in the ODI and T20 sides to ever have a big Shield season

 

[Yoda_]

And we are hardly in the position to pick players that have one excellent season with years of poor ones. Ferguson and McDonald are prime examples, both have been awesome this season but they have been average in the past season. If they do it again next season then by all means pick them. I've gone with the past record and given the benefit of the doubt to White whose averaged 28 in 5 innings which is never a good indication but he has a 100 against the English bowling attack which is more than can be said for a number of our batsmen right now.

Why pick players who are in form now then (your Mcdonald & Ferguson examples).

Both done the job, Mcdonald injured so counts him out..

 

[aussie1st]

Why pick players who are in form now then (your Mcdonald & Ferguson examples).

Both done the job, Mcdonald injured so counts him out..

Done the job for half the season but how confident would you be given their past seasons, if we had a guy that averaged 10 for 5 seasons and then 100 this season should he be picked? Ideally the player would have form in the past and current which is Marsh, Cosgrove, Dussey and Khawaja.

 

[Sman-21]

Since its clear we need to make big changes.

1 of the major changes we need to make is Watson, yes hes been reliable but guys batting in top 4 need the ability to make more than 50s they need to be able to convert starts into 100s, Watson cant do that so get some balls an put someone there who can.
Watson down to 5 or 6 where his reliable 30-70 runs will come in very handy plus he can score quickly with the tail.

Ponting needs to lose captaincy or be dumped all together

Clarke needs a rocket up his ass plenty of ability just doesnt take it all serious enough.

Smith will be a handy number 6 can bat pretty good an has excellent flight an drift when he bowls, if he could just get abit more turn he would be so much more dangerous.

Johnson gotta play him coz when hes on hes bloody good an also damaging with bat trouble is when hes off he is dreadful.

Need to play a full time spinner an 3 quicks
stupid playing 4 quicks when we got watson who can be the 4th.

 

[The Passenger]

Don't know much about Victorian cricket now do you Black Thunder

Read a bit from you, and you do know your cricket, just not on Victorian matters.

to be expected i guess. still would see more grade cricket in sydney than i have down here even though i've moved here.

i don't know a lot about hill. i've seen a few highlights of him him bat and he looks good, but of course that's hard cause your only seeing the good things they do. i could be overrating him, but he seems the best young batting prospect in vic at the moment. haven't seen Keath bat but looking forward to it.

as for finch though, he won't play for australia. he's simply not good enough. he might be well regarded and all, but he's an average state level player. rob quiney would be of the same standard. dominic thornely five years ago would be better and even though there was media talk about him possibly coming into the team, i don't think anyone really thought it was seriously talked about.

in terms of australian selection for the victorian batsmen, the best immediate chances all have problems

- Hodge is retired so that's done and dusted

- dussey's cards seem to have been marked which i massively disagree. i thought he should've been in the teams start of the 09/10 summer at the expense of his brother. ironically mhussey has dominated this series. but this would have also seen us in the position of being able to recall an experienced player to the team for a big series if our batting struggled, which it has.

- mcdonald is injured and his cards have been semi marked i reckon. once again i disagree. he should certainly be there abouts in regards to test selection although i don't know if i see him being a top line test cricketer. he possibly could. he's kinda awkward looking in the way he plays (maybe due to his lanky frame) and doesn't really inspire confidence of taking it to the next level. haven't seen him bat this season but 3x100's is very impressive, and scoring very quickly. should have included him on my list of players pushing for the 5 or 6 spot for sri lanka tour and in years down the track. will see how he comes back from injury.

- white is struggling this year in the shield and seems to be pigeonholed as a one day specialist. said in another thread that he should play the season out for victoria. give him his match payments if need be. he's in our best XI one day team. that's a given, and he'll be lining up first game in the world cup. we know what he can do in one dayers. see if he can produce the sort of scores he has in the last couple of years in the shield and be a test number 5 or 6.