Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 20 vs. Carlton, MCG, Fri 28/07, 7:50pm

[Jelly Bean]

People who are pitching for inclusions outside the currently established 23-24 players are dreaming.

I highly doubt we will pull the trigger on any of the likes of Ginnivan, Harrison, Kreuger, etc unless there are 3-4 injuries from current crop (of which only WHE is on the injured list).

Frampton, Johnson, and WHE are the only ones who didn't play last night that will be considered to come into the team from here if there are no injuries / resting.

 

[Jelly Bean]

What a win!

I think with all of Sidey, Pendles, Mitchell and Lipinski + 2 rucks + 2 Key forwards we are too slow over the ground and it doesn't fit our game plan, makes a lot of sense why WHE has been a lock under McRae. Or I could be wrong and Port were just able to make us not play our style for 80% of the game

For me:

In: Markov
sub: Lipinski

I agree, we were noticeably slow last night.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Are you referring to the handball where Maynard got done for holding the ball ? If so that is well and truly squarely on Maynard, Howe would assume if Maynard is calling for it he is free, all Maynard had to do was move to outside.

Howe was the one who dished it off. Onus is on the player with the ball to make the right decision, and not assume anything.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

Howe was the one who dished it off. Onus is on the player with the ball to make the right decision, and not assume anything.

We will agree to disagree. All
Maynard had to do was switch to the outside, he called for it in a terrible position.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

People who are pitching for inclusions outside the currently established 23-24 players are dreaming.

I highly doubt we will pull the trigger on any of the likes of Ginnivan, Harrison, Kreuger, etc unless there are 3-4 injuries from current crop (of which only WHE is on the injured list).

Frampton, Johnson, and WHE are the only ones who didn't play last night that will be considered to come into the team from here if there are no injuries / resting.

I haven’t read anybodys name mentioned on this thread from our vfl list apart from one or two people suggesting Kreuger rather than Johnson to replace cox.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We will agree to disagree. All
Maynard had to do was switch to the outside, he called for it in a terrible position.

Not saying Maynard isn5 equally culpable for a dumb move. Regardless it was just one incident where I thought Howe had a howler. Had a few others last week with some bad kicks. He’s safe for now and probably will stay that way but I think if our backline has a weak link at all, it’s him.

 

[The Phantom]

No change.
No rest.


The problem wasn’t the personnel last night.
It was an astute assault on our game plan followed by wet weather that hampered some players on our side and favoured scragging by Port.
Port players were thus at the drop of so many contested balls.

The big issue last night was that our overlap run was taken away from us.
Melbourne did the same thing and beat us. I’m sure Port studied that game closely (and others too. )
Port seemed to clog the centre and crowded our runners.
They put huge effort into Q and Noble. And obviously Daicos as well. The chains rarely started off half back - Crisp was very good in this regard - and it affected most of the team playing their typical roles to potential.
The coaches need prep further for this as we will no doubt face this in September.

Swapping the moving parts of the best 23 will have little effect as we currently, and very exceptionally, have about 26 players who are all finals 23 worthy and capable. And even fit.


I get the strong temptation to theorise about best 23, rotating players in positions and advocating for our fave players (I don’t get the amateur rest BS).

It’s frustrating how the inane drop player X and insert player Y dominates these threads and there is so little consideration of game plan, coaching or at least matching player changes against opposition.

I can assure you that amongst the coaches and selection committee that discussion comes first and then they solve the issue with the available meeples.
This is why Harrison got games ahead of Fin.


I miss the old Olympus board.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I agree, we were noticeably slow last night.

I think the slippery conditions made us look even slower. Port for large chunks of play were cleaner with their ball handling, giving them more time to run and carry rather than fumbling around to pick the ball up.

 

[manicpie]

No change.
No rest.


The problem wasn’t the personnel last night.
It was an astute assault on our game plan followed by wet weather that hampered some players on our side and favoured scragging by Port.
Port players were thus at the drop of so many contested balls.

The big issue last night was that our overlap run was taken away from us.
Melbourne did the same thing and beat us. I’m sure Port studied that game closely (and others too. )
Port seemed to clog the centre and crowded our runners.
They put huge effort into Q and Noble. And obviously Daicos as well. The chains rarely started off half back - Crisp was very good in this regard - and it affected most of the team playing their typical roles to potential.
The coaches need prep further for this as we will no doubt face this in September.

Swapping the moving parts of the best 23 will have little effect as we currently, and very exceptionally, have about 26 players who are all finals 23 worthy and capable. And even fit.


I get the strong temptation to theorise about best 23, rotating players in positions and advocating for our fave players (I don’t get the amateur rest BS).

It’s frustrating how the inane drop player X and insert player Y dominates these threads and there is so little consideration of game plan, coaching or at least matching player changes against opposition.

I can assure you that amongst the coaches and selection committee that discussion comes first and then they solve the issue with the available meeples.
This is why Harrison got games ahead of Fin.


I miss the old Olympus board.

Beautifully summed up

 

[manicpie]

We could add players and we could drop players but was evident to me is that we have them covered, they won't be beating us at MCG

 

[The Phantom]

We could add players and we could drop players but was evident to me is that we have them covered, they won't be beating us at MCG

At the MCG on a dry sunny day in September against a switched on Collingwood it is very likely we’d beat them by 10 goals.

 

[Harry O]

Not saying Maynard isn5 equally culpable for a dumb move. Regardless it was just one incident where I thought Howe had a howler. Had a few others last week with some bad kicks. He’s safe for now and probably will stay that way but I think if our backline has a weak link at all, it’s him.

Noble was 100% more a weak link than Howe last night

 

[mblack42]

I’m not convinced Howe is a better choice than frampton. One on one he is not the player he once was, and his disposal and decision making is questionable at times. That hospital handpass to Maynard was a shocker. He is becoming a bit one dimensional. The club will persist with him and he’s still running into form after a long layoff, but he’s on my watch list.

Wouldn’t be opposed to seeing if there’s a better option than lipinski or mitchell but it’s probably line ball until whe is available.

Johnson for cox makes some sense. It’s becoming a luxury we can’t afford to have cox on the bench for half a game. That sai I though cox was pretty good given conditions didn’t suit him… he was doing the one percenters. Set up the mccreery goal with a neat mark and handball.

In summary…. No change is on the cards with lipinski being sub this week. But vfl will tell us a bit.

Agree, his game was ok given the conditions, it was never going to be a big game for him. And I get a sense what he delivered is exactly what Fly wanted out of him. And ultimately thats the opinion that matters, certainly not any of ours.

I'm still trying to piece it all together in my head. Would Johnson have been a better option in hindsight? Maybe. He might’ve kicked 5 goals, he might equally have had 2 possessions for the game. That's his big problem, the gap between his best and worst is still quite big and could be a big issue come finals time.

I still think Cox needs a rest at some point to freshen up, he's played all the way through since round 8 and on a role that can be tiring. He is starting to look a bit fatigued at times.

A week off for him allows us to see what AJ, McStay or Frampton could offer varying up DC. Remember who ever comes in for Cox has to back up DC and each of these three have pros and cons. McStay is a good forward but terrible ruck. AJ can be mobile at ground level but has poor 2nd efforts and could get exposed against bigger ruckman, and Frampton is a solid ruck but can't really play as a forward so would also necessitate a rethink of the defensive structure.

 

[soreplums]

They played the conditions better. Just like the game earlier in the year at a slippery Brisbane, we missed that last extra handball that normally sticks in the dry And put pressure on ourselves.

Also feel that in the wet/slippery conditions that it is easier for teams to get the ball out the back of our defence due to how far we push up

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Noble was 100% more a weak link than Howe last night

Yes he was.

But noble has proven himself all year and isnt responsible for matching up on the talls as Howe is when we have frampton as an alternative. In context of a changes/best 22 thread, noble is an absolute lock and very few would argue otherwise. Howe also is probably best 22 but I have my concerns.

 

[myblueroan]

Looking for my horse friend.
Piebald Ponies V Blue Roans
Bring it on!
A shame we won't have Walshy as I wanted us to bring the best we have right now.
I've admired your coach and team all year.
But this week...stuff that!
It's on old enemies, it's on!
Giddyup.

 

[manicpie]

At the MCG on a dry sunny day in September against a switched on Collingwood it is very likely we’d beat them by 10 goals.

I thought 8 but I'll take 10. We really are a level above them. That was a huge effort last night

 

[Gaben]

What does Jordy do differently when he's the primary ball winner?

Retrieves the ball, primarily.

 

[manicpie]

Agree, his game was ok given the conditions, it was never going to be a big game for him. And I get a sense what he delivered is exactly what Fly wanted out of him. And ultimately thats the opinion that matters, certainly not any of ours.

I'm still trying to piece it all together in my head. Would Johnson have been a better option in hindsight? Maybe. He might’ve kicked 5 goals, he might equally have had 2 possessions for the game. That's his big problem, the gap between his best and worst is still quite big and could be a big issue come finals time.

I still think Cox needs a rest at some point to freshen up, he's played all the way through since round 8 and on a role that can be tiring. He is starting to look a bit fatigued at times.

A week off for him allows us to see what AJ, McStay or Frampton could offer varying up DC. Remember who ever comes in for Cox has to back up DC and each of these three have pros and cons. McStay is a good forward but terrible ruck. AJ can be mobile at ground level but has poor 2nd efforts and could get exposed against bigger ruckman, and Frampton is a solid ruck but can't really play as a forward so would also necessitate a rethink of the defensive structure.

Cox needs a game in the VFL as number one ruck, he's not been playing enough game time lately

 

[sr36]

Retrieves the ball, primarily.

I don't know enough about stoppage tactics to know if what you're saying is a thing or an imagination based on your ranking. What does Jordy do differently when it's Nick, Pendles and him to when it's Pendles, Mitchell and him in the centre? Looks to position the same to me.

 

[jimmy35]

If it’s dry no change for me except Markov on and Lips the sub.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Looking for my horse friend.
Piebald Ponies V Blue Roans
Bring it on!
A shame we won't have Walshy as I wanted us to bring the best we have right now.
I've admired your coach and team all year.
But this week...stuff that!
It's on old enemies, it's on!
Giddyup.

Your horse friend, I am told, has deleted his account, and we are all the poorer for it.

 

[Football God]

Sunday Footy Show saying Tom Mitchell’s position is under threat being subbed in and subbed out the last 2 weeks.

Does anyone believe this? Or they are trying to make headlines?

I don’t think he is under threat, I just think it was a wet game, we needed to introduce some more pace in the game and he wasn’t getting penetration in his kicks.
I think he is a vital cog in our inside midfield. Above average in AFL stats for disposals, contested disposals and clearances.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Sunday Footy Show saying Tom Mitchell’s position is under threat being subbed in and subbed out the last 2 weeks.

Does anyone believe this? Or they are trying to make headlines?

I don’t think he is under threat, I just think it was a wet game, we needed to introduce some more pace in the game and he wasn’t getting penetration in his kicks.
I think he is a vital cog in our inside midfield. Above average in AFL stats for disposals, contested disposals and clearances.

Still think his a cog but I would now rest his old body for a week or two and give Finn a go.

Also I would rest Noble as sub or complete rest (barley misses a match and always goes hard)

 

[Jen2310]

Sunday Footy Show saying Tom Mitchell’s position is under threat being subbed in and subbed out the last 2 weeks.

Does anyone believe this? Or they are trying to make headlines?

I don’t think he is under threat, I just think it was a wet game, we needed to introduce some more pace in the game and he wasn’t getting penetration in his kicks.
I think he is a vital cog in our inside midfield. Above average in AFL stats for disposals, contested disposals and clearances.

Fly said they subbed him because they needed to inject some speed in the game and would rather take away a little in the clearance to do it.