Preview Changes: R10 vs Melbourne - Crows drop Hamill but keep Mackay

[Bearded Clam]

Not every week, but consistently poor performances can't be rewarded. As mentioned above, it's a fine balance.

so what’s the excuse with mookay then?... why do his consistently poor performances continue to be rewarded?..

love to hear you explain the “fine balance” with keeping possibly one of our consistently worst players on the list in the 22.

pretty sure your fine balance just stumbled and fell over..

 

[feenix67]

The problem with selecting "experience" is that it's pointless when that "experience" is average at best. When you look at the 6 150+ gamers selected this week, who would be recruited by another team?

Mackay - No
Sloane - Yes (but probably not in the same spot he's playing with us)
Walker - Unlikely (maybe as a third tall/depth))
Smith - Yes
Brown - Probably
Laird - Yes

Then of the remainder currently not in the team:

Talia - Maybe pending fitness
Lynch - Unlikely

So our "experience" consists of two definite yeses, a couple of probablys and a couple of unlikelys. We are not talking Travis Boak levels here, we are talking a couple of good honest performers and a few fringe players.

I think the club doesn't understand exactly how shit our list has been. It was cooked, stuffed, garbage. I wonder if any of our current coaching panel spent one solitary minute in their previous roles working at other clubs discussing how they can counter the devastating rebound skills of David Mackay? I highly, highly doubt it.

This club isnt turning around until DMack, Walker, Sloane and Lynch retire. Unfortunately, it's just that simple. Three of the four are "highly respected senior players at the club" and one is a "hard working bloke who plays his role every week". We won't ditch them, they will have to retire.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Agreed

If a young player puts in a 5-6 week stretch of poor performances that moves away from being just poor form and part of the normal ups and downs of being a young player to....

Maybe he's actually not that good and doesn't deserve a spot.

Dropping them in that case is fine.

The trouble is that we often give our young players 1-2 weeks tops. Or zero weeks in O'Connor's case.

Do we have the balls to back a young player in and ride out their teething problems?

I don't think we do and our approach will lead to us spinning our wheels rather than rebuilding.

Yeah i didn't like the omission of O'Connor at all. I also haven't agreed with us going in too small in Defence, and the in and out selection of Murray.

Plenty i don't agree with in selection, but Hamill and McPherson getting dumped to the SANFL isn't one of them.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Plenty i don't agree with in selection, but Hamill and McPherson getting dumped to the SANFL isn't one of them.

Hamill dumped is exactly the type of decision that has led us to where we are and will keep us there

 

[Anzacpaul]

Dmac a smoky for Boomer Harvey's games record?

 

[Archie87]

Examples?

DMac himself is an example of this - the dude averages a poultry 16 possessions over almost 240 games playing as an outside wingman or half-back. The bar is set so incredibly low for him.

The club acts like he's some kind of evergreen wingman/half-back club stalwart still playing good footy into his 30s like Higgins/Isaac Smith/Kade Simpson when in actual fact he is statistically inferior to each of these players in every facet of the game despite playing a similar role.

 

[GROTTO]

Dmac a smoky for Boomer Harvey's games record?

REPORTED.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

You have set a very low bar if you reckon Nicks has improved our selection. Just this season he has

• Playing a clearly injured and hampered Tom Lynch
• Playing a clearly injured and hampered McAdam
• NOT selected a second tall defender for the last month
• Selecting a clearly injured and not ready Lynch as the medical sub
• Moving Seed forward to accommodate MacKay
• Not rotating the youngsters out for a spell to freshen them up
• The continual selection of Frampton - he is not a youngster he is 24 and is in his 7th year on an AFL list
• The delayed selection of RT, zero reason not to bring him in earlier. Stubborn AFC conservative bullshit selection.

Some of these moves you might do if your in your window pushing for finals, zero reason to when rebuilding.

But but but he has played the kids - HE HAD NO CHOICE.

List management cut the old deadwood - Nicks has selected the oldest team available each and every week - let that sink in and we're meant to be in a rebuild.

Nicks actually played youth unlike Pyle and also dropped senior players. It’s not good enough but better than what it was

 

[CrowBloke]

1) I would say he cares more about keeping his job than rebuilding. I think he has no confidence that the board will keep him on long term and this has resulted in minimizing defeat margin as his chief priority....
2) My major concern is that some of the keys in our list for improvement will leave due to lack of opportunities further setting us back. Worrell and O'Connor most likely to look for opportunities elsewhere imo. What they are doing to Doedee is also wrong and although he seems committed he still hasn't signed yet.

Spot on; couldn't agree more.
1) I think Nicks would have been better suited to a side that had undergone the rebuild and was ready to contend.
A rebuild requires cool, calm, experienced hands with an experienced Senior Coach who has been through it all before and has a gift for working with fresh talent. Types like Blight, Sheedy, Ross Lyons, Brad Scott, Paul Roos, not that any were available/ willing etc.
I'd have been happy and would still be happy if they threw a just-cannot-refuse pile of money @ Clarkson, tbh.
2) Sholl's re-signing was a very pleasant surprise to me; he's obviously buying in to what Nicks is selling.
I think Worrell and O'Connor have been extremely hard done by.
I'd have kept O'Connor over Mackay and challenge him to repeat his tackling efforts from last week, or improve on ii.
I doubt that Mackay would lay 8 tackles in the mini-League.

 

[1990crow]

Spot on; couldn't agree more.
1) I think Nicks would have been better suited to a side that had undergone the rebuild and was ready to contend.
A rebuild requires cool, calm, experienced hands with an experienced Senior Coach who has been through it all before and has a gift for working with fresh talent. Types like Blight, Sheedy, Ross Lyons, Brad Scott, Paul Roos, not that any were available/ willing etc.
I'd have been happy and would still be happy if they threw a just-cannot-refuse pile of money @ Clarkson, tbh.
2) Sholl's re-signing was a very pleasant surprise to me; he's obviously buying in to what Nicks is selling.
I think Worrell and O'Connor have been extremely hard done by.
I'd have kept O'Connor over Mackay and challenge him to repeat his tackling efforts from last week, or improve on ii.
I doubt that Mackay would lay 8 tackles in the mini-League.

Clarkson is a good call. Draft well this offseason and have Clarkson as coach into 2022.. yes please.
Clarko may be more interested in a side thats gone through the initial drafting stage of a rebuilding and requires the development and growth phase.

 

[JP Sauce]

The problem with selecting "experience" is that it's pointless when that "experience" is average at best. When you look at the 6 150+ gamers selected this week, who would be recruited by another team?

Mackay - No
Sloane - Yes (but probably not in the same spot he's playing with us)
Walker - Unlikely (maybe as a third tall/depth))
Smith - Yes
Brown - Probably
Laird - Yes

Then of the remainder currently not in the team:

Talia - Maybe pending fitness
Lynch - Unlikely

So our "experience" consists of two definite yeses, a couple of probablys and a couple of unlikelys. We are not talking Travis Boak levels here, we are talking a couple of good honest performers and a few fringe players.

I think the club doesn't understand exactly how sh*t our list has been. It was cooked, stuffed, garbage. I wonder if any of our current coaching panel spent one solitary minute in their previous roles working at other clubs discussing how they can counter the devastating rebound skills of David Mackay? I highly, highly doubt it.

This club isnt turning around until DMack, Walker, Sloane and Lynch retire. Unfortunately, it's just that simple. Three of the four are "highly respected senior players at the club" and one is a "hard working bloke who plays his role every week". We won't ditch them, they will have to retire.

Also most of the "maybes" from your list - Walker, Talia, Sloane - were at one point stars and you could argue the case that their experience is worth something. Mackay is a never-was and so the "experience" reason for picking him is worthless.

 

[feenix67]

DMac himself is an example of this - the dude averages a poultry 16 possessions over almost 240 games playing as an outside wingman or half-back. The bar is set so incredibly low for him.

The club acts like he's some kind of evergreen wingman/half-back club stalwart still playing good footy into his 30s like Higgins/Isaac Smith/Kade Simpson when in actual fact he is statistically inferior to each of these players in every facet of the game despite playing a similar role.

Don't forget, we carried Richie Douglas, a midfielder, for 250 games with a career average disposals of 18, including not one 30+ disposal game after 2013 and not one league top 10 ranking stat since 2015.

We have history since 2000 of playing players until they physically can't play anymore. Especially vanilla roleplaying "Club men". It's ingrained in our ****ing culture and it drives me crazy.

 

[1990crow]

Also most of the "maybes" from your list - Walker, Talia, Sloane - were at one point stars and you could argue the case that their experience is worth something. Mackay is a never-was and so the "experience" reason for picking him is worthless.

Exactly. They are valuable to either be in the squad, or as role players in the current team guiding the younger players.
Mackay at best was a role player, and that was a long time ago.

 

[OldCrowBloke]

I changed my avatar to Back to the Future - Doc in response to backward-thinking selection policies several years ago. Have seen no reason to change it since then.
I try to get excited about getting some of the talented young players in the team, but then Biff selects the team each week

 

[1990crow]

Don't forget, we carried Richie Douglas, a midfielder, for 250 games with a career average disposals of 18, including not one 30+ disposal game after 2013 and not one league top 10 ranking stat since 2015.

We have history since 2000 of playing players until they physically can't play anymore. Especially vanilla roleplaying "Club men". It's ingrained in our ******* culture and it drives me crazy.

Michael Doughty, Robert Shirley, Van Berlo, Thompson, Jacobs, Douglas, Mackay, Reilly come to mind.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Don't forget, we carried Richie Douglas, a midfielder, for 250 games with a career average disposals of 18, including not one 30+ disposal game after 2013 and not one league top 10 ranking stat since 2015.

We have history since 2000 of playing players until they physically can't play anymore. Especially vanilla roleplaying "Club men". It's ingrained in our ******* culture and it drives me crazy.

That hard-edged approach where a coach can look a guy in the eye who is giving 100% every game, does everything right on the track, is elite in their preparation and is doing every single thing in their power to be a good AFL player... and tell them sorry, we're not picking you because I don't think you're a good enough player

Is lacking and has been for a long time.

Mackay (and Kelly and Douglas and Reilly and Otten and S Stevens and Ken and Doughty and Shirley and whoever...) have traits that our coaches admire deeply. Our coaches want them to succeed and give them every opportunity. They see the person rather than the footballer.

 

[feenix67]

At the risk of being cursed by Bicks, a classic example of us overrating our players occurred last off season. We go into the trade period thinking we're a lock for Band 1 compo. We get Band 3. For a bloke who our club (whoever votes for the BnF) awarded the Blighty just one year prior.

I think our club is too insular and doesn't do enough benchmarking against other teams/lists/players. It's an arrogant "we play our way, we train our way" mentality. And when we dont measure up on game day, it's a "we just have to work harder, do better for longer". I know we dont hear what goes on behind closed doors, but I actually doubt it's much different. Our club seems to invoke this insular arrogant attitude in everyone who comes on board.

 

[GROTTO]

When posters change their avatar its like I dont recognize them anymore.

 

[feenix67]

That hard-edged approach where a coach can look a guy in the eye who is giving 100% every game, does everything right on the track, is elite in their preparation and is doing every single thing in their power to be a good AFL player... and tell them sorry, we're not picking you because I don't think you're a good enough player

Is lacking and has been for a long time.

Mackay (and Kelly and Douglas and Reilly and Otten and S Stevens and Ken and Doughty and Shirley and whoever...) have traits that our coaches admire deeply. Our coaches want them to succeed and give them every opportunity. They see the person rather than the footballer.

EXACTLY. Far too emotive.

It's all about messaging. I reckon our messaging is "keep working hard and it'll come". Blight's message would have been You're working hard but it's just not there. Go and sort it out in the twos and we will pick you when you've found it (or delist you if you dont).

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I changed my avatar to Back to the Future - Doc in response to backward-thinking selection policies several years ago. Have seen no reason to change it since then.
I try to get excited about getting some of the talented young players in the team, but then Biff selects the team each week

I've figured out how D Mac spends his evenings

Matthew Nicks: Last night, Darth Vader came from the planet Vulcan and told me that if I didn't pick David Mackay that he'd melt my brain.

 

[jackster83]

That hard-edged approach where a coach can look a guy in the eye who is giving 100% every game, does everything right on the track, is elite in their preparation and is doing every single thing in their power to be a good AFL player... and tell them sorry, we're not picking you because I don't think you're a good enough player

Is lacking and has been for a long time.

Mackay (and Kelly and Douglas and Reilly and Otten and S Stevens and Ken and Doughty and Shirley and whoever...) have traits that our coaches admire deeply. Our coaches want them to succeed and give them every opportunity. They see the person rather than the footballer.

At the same time we seem unwelcoming to any precociously talented players who land at the club. It's almost like we see them as a threat.

The shit we were fed about why TT wasn't being picked was a disgrace.

 

[DJ75]

There are lost to be concerned about when it comes to these types of selections, but I think there is a bigger issue here.

Whenever we get a new player, they come in and play with a sense of freedom. Dare I say a bit of spunk and enthusiasm. Then we coach it out of them. We end up with a carbon copy of what we already had, rather than what the player was recruited to bring.

Whenever we get a new coach, we get a glimpse of a change in philosophy. Then we somehow manage it out of them. We end up with exactly what we had previously, with the same mistakes made over and over again.

The questions is - how does this lunacy manage to survive despite all the changes??

 

[Mutineer]

At the risk of being cursed by Bicks, a classic example of us overrating our players occurred last off season. We go into the trade period thinking we're a lock for Band 1 compo. We get Band 3. For a bloke who our club (whoever votes for the BnF) awarded the Blighty just one year prior.

I think our club is too insular and doesn't do enough benchmarking against other teams/lists/players. It's an arrogant "we play our way, we train our way" mentality. And when we dont measure up on game day, it's a "we just have to work harder, do better for longer". I know we dont hear what goes on behind closed doors, but I actually doubt it's much different. Our club seems to invoke this insular arrogant attitude in everyone who comes on board.

That would be the year that the bloke in question picked up 14 Brownlow votes and played every game correct?

 

[feenix67]

That would be the year that the bloke in question picked up 14 Brownlow votes and played every game correct?

Yes, beating Jarryd Lyons by one vote. 19 votes behind the winner. Equal 21st.

Your point?

 

[CrowinNT]

The questions is - how does this lunacy manage to survive despite all the changes??

Perhaps we have been devoid of a hard nose coach that is a leader of men ?
Strong in his conviction
Since Blight maybe Walsh could have been