Strategy Changes: Round 8 St. Kilda vs Fremantle

[freo84]

Especially against the Saints who are clearly an inferior team to Adelaide IMO.
Bring our game and we will win and win well

Our leaders had a meeting and players voiced their concerns. Luke Ryan apparently asked what we wanted to stand for as a team and a club. The rest of the leadership group joined in. I think the Melbourne performance shocked the group into asking the hard questions of each other.

Serong mentioned that we have had no identity this year and the team wanted to figure it all out.

If our identity is to come out and hunt the ball and tackle. To work hard for each other and to make our opponents pay for their errors then we should be beating most teams from here.

Sometimes a bad loss is exactly what a team needs to wake up.

 

[mattis117]

I remember reading similar stories about Geelong in 2007... Just sayin

 

[Sully90]

I remember reading similar stories about Geelong in 2007... Just sayin

We've replicated all the hard work and bad losses that the likes of Geelong, Hawks, Richmond went through. Now we just have to replicate the massive win streaks and multiple premierships.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I remember reading similar stories about Geelong in 2007... Just sayin

I mean i'm first to say that we need to make major coaching changes but really everyone on here irrespective of current opinion would just absolutely love that. I will build a statue to commemorate Luke Ryan's 60m bombs to a pack of 15 players if that happens.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Now we just have to replicate the massive win streaks and multiple premierships.

Piece of cake

 

[gungho]

Interesting stat just now via the gambling promoter that appears on Footy Furnace. He had a graphic of the number of players used so far this season and we were second most with 32 players behind Melbourne on 33. Gold Coast were at the other end with the least number of changes.

That kind of indicates that we've had a fair few injuries. Interesting in that the injury front doesn't seem to be as bad this year but it most likely is.
Another poster put on here that we've had about 11 or 12 guys with some sort of injury in the off season (or first few weeks) and are not up to their best yet.
We seem to have been written off by the East Coast media as top 4 contenders but get everyone fit with 3 or 4 games behind them and it might be a different story.

 

[Paracleet]

Add him in the rotations with Johnson moved back out to the wing basically. Dudley or Wagner to sub.

It'd be like 40% mid, 40% ruck, 20% bench

Back out? Even with O'Meara out Johnson was still only 38% of CBA's. Face it the only way Jackson is going on ball it at the expense of all of Boltons or some of Boltons and Youngs rotations, even if you move Johnson to 0.
Or put another way, it's not happening other than for tiny bursts.

 

[s_wd6]

Interesting stat just now via the gambling promoter that appears on Footy Furnace. He had a graphic of the number of players used so far this season and we were second most with 32 players behind Melbourne on 33. Gold Coast were at the other end with the least number of changes.

Didn't Melbourne also make a statement by omitting players that weren't performing? I think our changes have almost all been forced.

Injuries aren't really an excuse this year, but it's no surprise that the teams with consistent availability are the ones that are sitting at the top of the ladder. It takes a while to gel.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Back out? Even with O'Meara out Johnson was still only 38% of CBA's. Face it the only way Jackson is going on ball it at the expense of all of Boltons or some of Boltons and Youngs rotations, even if you move Johnson to 0.
Or put another way, it's not happening other than for tiny bursts

38% reads very similar to 40%...

Between Wagner as sub, who from what I can tell is now not playing defense, and moving Johnson around, I think you can get Jackson to 40% across the middle and wing.

Will this happen? Probably not, OMac will come out but I've been on this hill for close to 18 months and I've now planted a flag, doubled down and not moving. Jackson forward for any serious amount of time is a waste

 

[Stinky Lomax]

38% reads very similar to 40%...

Between Wagner as sub, who from what I can tell is now not playing defense, and moving Johnson around, I think you can get Jackson to 40% across the middle and wing.

Will this happen? Probably not, OMac will come out but I've been on this hill for close to 18 months and I've now planted a flag, doubled down and not moving. Jackson forward for any serious amount of time is a waste

You want him 80% on ball including half of that rucking? Only the very best aerobically are spending that much time getting to every stoppage on the ground per game.

Is he up for that?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

You want him 80% on ball including half of that rucking? Only the very best aerobically are spending that much time getting to every stoppage on the ground per game.

Is he up for that?

That works for me even more, thought I was being conservative with 20% on the bench. Can decrease those percentages further if needed

 

[Taylor]

Johnson doesn't need to play in the centre bounce. That immediately following general stoppage after a tackle, he will come into it.

O'Meara and O'Driscoll do it. Swapping when the 6 6 6 restrictions come off

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Honestly, if you dont want Jackson playing midfield/ruck, the only reasonable alternative is to acknowledge Cornes and Ellis are right. Keep Darcy on the park the rest of the year and send him to a good home. Find a cheap depth ruck to plonk on the list in place of Reidy

 

[stax on the mull]

Didn't Melbourne also make a statement by omitting players that weren't performing? I think our changes have almost all been forced.

Injuries aren't really an excuse this year, but it's no surprise that the teams with consistent availability are the ones that are sitting at the top of the ladder. It takes a while to gel.

There's no excuses. It's more that people start doing their fantasy "Best 23's" before trade week the previous season, but when you get to 32 players used by Rd 7, what's being tested is the depth of the playing list.

 

[s_wd6]

Honestly, if you dont want Jackson playing midfield/ruck, the only reasonable alternative is to acknowledge Cornes and Ellis are right. Keep Darcy on the park the rest of the year and send him to a good home. Find a cheap depth ruck to plonk on the list in place of Reidy

I mean there is the alternative where he splits time in the middle/ruck/forward line…

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I mean there is the alternative where he splits time in the middle/ruck/forward line…

Do you think that's the best use of probably out most talented player?

 

[stax on the mull]

There's no excuses. It's more that people start doing their fantasy "Best 23's" before trade week the previous season, but when you get to 32 players used by Rd 7, what's being tested is the depth of the playing list.

I'd expect if you looked back each week over post mortem threads and changes threads we wouldn't even have 32 players left in our squad if you heeded everyone's opinion on the players who should never play again or that should be delisted because they're not performing in the WAFL.

 

[s_wd6]

Do you think that's the best use of probably out most talented player?

I think it could be if it’s done right. He’s good in all those areas of the ground.

Don’t throw him into the midfield fresh off a hammy. Let him play that fwd/ruck role for a couple weeks. Last thing you want to do is have him cooked for the second half of the season.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Honest truth sessions. Injuries to key personnel. Banking wins while playing below our best.

Plenty of premiership seasons have started this way.

 

[Lach72]

Our leaders had a meeting and players voiced their concerns. Luke Ryan apparently asked what we wanted to stand for as a team and a club. The rest of the leadership group joined in. I think the Melbourne performance shocked the group into asking the hard questions of each other.

Serong mentioned that we have had no identity this year and the team wanted to figure it all out.

If our identity is to come out and hunt the ball and tackle. To work hard for each other and to make our opponents pay for their errors then we should be beating most teams from here.

Sometimes a bad loss is exactly what a team needs to wake up.

How concerning is this? Round 7 of the 6th year of the coach?

Great. They’ve had the conversation, but bullshit it takes this long for it to happen…

Now excuse the cynic in me
BUT

Enough talk…
To paraphrase Ross “Action not emotion”.

Do it. Show it. Every week. That’s greatness

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Do you think that's the best use of probably out most talented player?

I do.

I think he is too slow to be a full time mid, he works well in short bursts but if he's in the centre 70% of the time it'll make a bad defensive midfield worse.

Not good enough as a pure ruck to play 80% of a year as ruck. Gets beaten up by the bigger ones.

Doesn't really fit in as a permanent forward.

An even split ruck/forward/mid with a licence to just roam around for the latter two roles is probably the best use of him.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Honestly, if you dont want Jackson playing midfield/ruck, the only reasonable alternative is to acknowledge Cornes and Ellis are right. Keep Darcy on the park the rest of the year and send him to a good home. Find a cheap depth ruck to plonk on the list in place of Reidy

Could you play Jackson as a forward, but still have him push up the ground lots. This allows Treacy and Amiss to stay deeper.

I don't see Jackson playing on either wing, and I don't see him pushing any of the mids out of the centre square.

He could play the high half forward role pretty well. (I think this is the role Banfield plays at the moment)

 

[Taylor]

I think Jackson would be a weapon at a stoppage, so any stoppage forward of centre he should step into and when the ball is coming out of defense he should be up the field for the marking option or deeper to mix it up for the second kick and set shot mark.

 

[Wizard]

I hope the players and coaching staff are well aware of the intensity that is going to be coming our way on Friday night and ready to reciprocate it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think it could be if it’s done right. He’s good in all those areas of the ground.

Don’t throw him into the midfield fresh off a hammy. Let him play that fwd/ruck role for a couple weeks. Last thing you want to do is have him cooked for the second half of the season.

I do.

I think he is too slow to be a full time mid, he works well in short bursts but if he's in the centre 70% of the time it'll make a bad defensive midfield worse.

Not good enough as a pure ruck to play 80% of a year as ruck. Gets beaten up by the bigger ones.

Doesn't really fit in as a permanent forward.

An even split ruck/forward/mid with a licence to just roam around for the latter two roles is probably the best use of him.

I think a lot of the concerns around his rucking can be attributed to body maturity noting rucks generally need to be 24+ to compete week in and out. He'll beat up the big boys (like how he always plays well against Gawn) eventually.

The midfield would effectively be in short bursts and it's why Darcy is needed to play that position, Darcy (once properly fit anyway) gives you first use almost all the time, negating a fair bit of the slow mid risk.

My concerns of him playing forward also are that JL seems to need his three tall set up. Maybe you can play Darcy forward a bit more but if you are doing Jackson with some kind of 40 ruck, 20 mid, 20 forward set up, what is he doing for the rest of the game for the third tall?