The Butters Cup: Changes vs Port in Ballarat

[TiAn_]

Would have liked Jones to play well and come in for Khamis so we could use O’Donnell or Lobb forward. Couldn’t watch the game but doesn’t sound like he did enough.

 

[Foxman98]

Would have liked Jones to play well and come in for Khamis so we could use O’Donnell or Lobb forward. Couldn’t watch the game but doesn’t sound like he did enough.

Not the easiest game to play FB in is the one thing I’ll give him

 

[Doggstats]

And so are Williams and Davidson on the wings

Treloar doesn’t have the capacity to play wing

I'm talking about the high half forward/wing role that he played the majority of 2021 and 2022 in when we still had Dunkley, Macrae and Smith. He only played 34% midfield time in 2021 and 37% in 2022 (he was at 80% last season) and he still averaged 27 disposals and 3 clearances in 2022 playing the majority there.

He's got all the traits you'd want for that position. He's got a huge tank, is a explosive good runner and good kick when he actually has time to dispose.

Our midfield is in such good form I doubt Bevo want's to shake things up too much. He can ease Treloar in playing that role and gradually increase his midfield time.

 

[Foxman98]

I'm talking about the high half forward/wing role that he played the majority of 2021 and 2022 in when we still had Dunkley, Macrae and Smith. He only played 34% midfield time in 2021 and 37% in 2022 (he was at 80% last season) and he still averaged 27 disposals and 3 clearances in 2022 playing the majority there.

He's got all the traits you'd want for that position. He's got a huge tank, is a explosive good runner and good kick when he actually has time to dispose.

Our midfield is in such good form I doubt Bevo want's to shake things up too much. He can ease Treloar in playing that role and gradually increase his midfield time.

High half forward and wing are completely different positions

He can come into the rotation there but will probably struggle to this week as Kennedy and Harmes keep him out on form

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I'm talking about the high half forward/wing role that he played the majority of 2021 and 2022 in when we still had Dunkley, Macrae and Smith. He only played 34% midfield time in 2021 and 37% in 2022 (he was at 80% last season) and he still averaged 27 disposals and 3 clearances in 2022 playing the majority there.

He's got all the traits you'd want for that position. He's got a huge tank, is a explosive good runner and good kick when he actually has time to dispose.

Our midfield is in such good form I doubt Bevo want's to shake things up too much. He can ease Treloar in playing that role and gradually increase his midfield time.

Treloar was an All-Australian returning to full-time mid last year. He was actively worse when playing on flanks and wings the seasons before. Yes we will have a lojgam but we don't have to infer value from "traits", we should play Treloar where he was provably a lot better player across recent seasons and that was on the ball.

 

[Struggle]

Is Mcneil all clear?

How often is a hamstring only one week

 

[Libba39]

Tough to omit 3 players after such a strong win but with players back it’s what happens in strong sides.

Assuming all goes well in VFL for Jones, I’d go…

IN L Jones, Treloar, McNeil
OUT Khamis, Hynes, Dolan

Nothing wrong with Dolan in particular, but a bit quiet last night and some seasoned campaigners to come back in.

Vandermeer or McNeil to sub.

FB Cleary, Jones, O’Donnell
HB Dale, Busslinger, Johannisen
C Williams, Bontempelli, Davidson
HF M Kennedy, Lobb, Harmes
FF McNeil/Vandermeer, Naughton, West
FOL English, Liberatore, Richards
INT Bramble, Freijah, Sanders, Treloar
SUB McNeil/Vandermeer

Should also add L Kennedy and Coffield bsck through the VFL, and with Khamis, Dolan and Hynes dropping down, ahould see some very solid depth running around for Footscray. Good position to be in.

Why drop Khamis??? I don't get it.

 

[Doggstats]

Treloar was an All-Australian returning to full-time mid last year. He was actively worse when playing on flanks and wings the seasons before. Yes we will have a lojgam but we don't have to infer value from "traits", we should play Treloar where he was provably a lot better player across recent seasons and that was on the ball.

So he goes straight back into full time mid? Who comes out?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

So he goes straight back into full time mid? Who comes out?

You can manage rotations. Treloar doesn't have to get the most centre bounces on the team or whatever, but he should be in the middle for 50+% of the time he's on the ground.

Kennedy, Freijah don't have to play as much in the middle as they have been. Freijah was outstanding on the weekend but it's not as if his overall season form merits more minutes in there than Treloar, for instance.

 

[doggy_dog]

Treloar was an All-Australian returning to full-time mid last year. He was actively worse when playing on flanks and wings the seasons before. Yes we will have a lojgam but we don't have to infer value from "traits", we should play Treloar where he was provably a lot better player across recent seasons and that was on the ball.

I disagree that he was worse, and if he was it definitely wasn’t significantly. He can be extremely damaging in that role, go back and look at his 2021 form.

Who are you booting from our current midfield set up to slot him straight back in full time?

 

[Wetdog]

Would have liked Jones to play well and come in for Khamis so we could use O’Donnell or Lobb forward. Couldn’t watch the game but doesn’t sound like he did enough.

Not the easiest game to play FB in is the one thing I’ll give him

I watched the VFL game.

L.Jones played alright. Just an average game. He took a couple of grabs and used the ball relatively well. He played on Gruzeski who only kicked 1.1.

As Foxman says, it was a tough game. The Giants midfield dominated and our defence was under siege for large portions of the game.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I disagree that he was worse, and if he was it definitely wasn’t significantly. He can be extremely damaging in that role, go back and look at his 2021 form.

Who are you booting from our current midfield set up to slot him straight back in full time?

No though?

He only had 1 coaches vote in all the games that he didn't largely play as a centre bounce midfielder
On the other hand all of his other coaches votes games in 2021 was when he was playing 40-60% of the games' centre bounces.

This is pretty revisionist

AFL Match Stats

AFL Match Stats

www.wheeloratings.com

 

[lachy]

Why drop Khamis??? I don't get it.

If Jones played well, could understand it so JOD and Buss had some assistance down back. However, not after this
Weekend

 

[lachy]

So he goes straight back into full time mid? Who comes out?

We don't have any Full Time mids, they all rotate through there which has become a strength

 

[Mojorisin]

You can manage rotations. Treloar doesn't have to get the most centre bounces on the team or whatever, but he should be in the middle for 50+% of the time he's on the ground.

Kennedy, Freijah don't have to play as much in the middle as they have been. Freijah was outstanding on the weekend but it's not as if his overall season form merits more minutes in there than Treloar, for instance.

Kennedy and harmes getting their midfield minutes cut right back to spend more time forward makes most sense to me.

 

[lachy]

Would have liked Jones to play well and come in for Khamis so we could use O’Donnell or Lobb forward. Couldn’t watch the game but doesn’t sound like he did enough.

Agree mostly, has to be Lobb up forward, he sets up up better down there with Naughts, Bev also said this after the game.

JOD is coming along really well as KPD amd though tries hard is just not a forward

 

[Doggstats]

You can manage rotations. Treloar doesn't have to get the most centre bounces on the team or whatever, but he should be in the middle for 50+% of the time he's on the ground.

Kennedy, Freijah don't have to play as much in the middle as they have been. Freijah was outstanding on the weekend but it's not as if his overall season form merits more minutes in there than Treloar, for instance.

It's tricky because Richards is rated 5# in the AFL this season with CD player ratings (17.8), Kennedy is 9# (16.79) and Libba is 11# (16.74). As good as Treloar was last season all 3 of those mentioned are averaging higher ratings than Treloar's 2024 (15.8). Not to mention Bont is 1# in the comp with a crazy 20.0 rating but obviously too small a sample size.

Richards, Libba, Kennedy have 80%, 75%, 67% midfield time respectively so it's already going to be a challenge to get Bont midfield time, he's only had 55% midfield time since his return. Even if we take away Freijah's 27% or Sanders 20% or Harmes 3% midfield time we're still going to have to cut a lot more to get Treloar and Bont midfield time.

So the question is who can be the most effective playing high half-forward/wing or as a forward, and Treloar and Bont are the obvious 2 which have the best proven form in this positions.

Kennedy actually played a majority forward last 2 seasons with 33% and 34% midfield time but was only rated 9.12 and 9.14 in those 2 seasons (avg 17 and 18 disposals those 2 seasons).
Compare that with Treloar who had almost identical midfield splits in 2021/2022 (34% and 37%) but was way more effective with 12.50 and 11.82 player ratings (avg 27 and 23 disposals) and avg more goals in those 2 years than Kennedy has kicked in any year of his career (except 2019's only 10 game sample size).

But at the end of the day our midfield is by far the 1# in the comp atm, so why mess with something that's not broken? We also don't know how Treloar will perform on his return so I think it just makes sense to ease him back into midfield time as he gets his legs back.
There's no way Treloar isn't going to be a huge upgrade over VDM or Dolan playing in that role.

 

[Chadley]

the VDM hate is so 2024. Learn ball please.

If adz isn't ready this week I don't see us playing him the week after @ Darwin

 

[House_of_Dahl]

So he goes straight back into full time mid? Who comes out?

I think Treloar comes in (if ready) for Hynes and plays a mixture of half forward, wing, and a good chunk of centre square. The other mids can just spend a little more time forward ie Freijah, Kennedy, Libba, Bont

 

[lachy]

It's tricky because Richards is rated 5# in the AFL this season with CD player ratings (17.8), Kennedy is 9# (16.79) and Libba is 11# (16.74). As good as Treloar was last season all 3 of those mentioned are averaging higher ratings than Treloar's 2024 (15.8). Not to mention Bont is 1# in the comp with a crazy 20.0 rating but obviously too small a sample size.

Richards, Libba, Kennedy have 80%, 75%, 67% midfield time respectively so it's already going to be a challenge to get Bont midfield time, he's only had 55% midfield time since his return. Even if we take away Freijah's 27% or Sanders 20% or Harmes 3% midfield time we're still going to have to cut a lot more to get Treloar and Bont midfield time.

So the question is who can be the most effective playing high half-forward/wing or as a forward, and Treloar and Bont are the obvious 2 which have the best proven form in this positions.

Kennedy actually played a majority forward last 2 seasons with 33% and 34% midfield time but was only rated 9.12 and 9.14 in those 2 seasons (avg 17 and 18 disposals those 2 seasons).
Compare that with Treloar who had almost identical midfield splits in 2021/2022 (34% and 37%) but was way more effective with 12.50 and 11.82 player ratings (avg 27 and 23 disposals) and avg more goals in those 2 years than Kennedy has kicked in any year of his career (except 2019's only 10 game sample size).

But at the end of the day our midfield is by far the 1# in the comp atm, so why mess with something that's not broken? We also don't know how Treloar will perform on his return so I think it just makes sense to ease him back into midfield time as he gets his legs back.
There's no way Treloar isn't going to be a huge upgrade over VDM or Dolan playing in that role.

Its not about messing with it, it's about improving it. Statistics reflect in some ways what has happened, though all stats can be misleading. Bringing Trealor into the rotations im the middle keeps it fresh at all times without a drop in quality. All mids rotate somewhere, you just have to have your best in there at key times, and if your best is any mix of 6 you are hard to beat

 

[Iamspock]

According to the AFL app O'Donnell finished the game on ice. Injured?

I did notice, he landed awkwardly at one point, and hobbled around for a bit, but seemed to run it out, and continued to play.

 

[Generation West]

Tough to omit 3 players after such a strong win but with players back it’s what happens in strong sides.

Assuming all goes well in VFL for Jones, I’d go…

IN L Jones, Treloar, McNeil
OUT Khamis, Hynes, Dolan

Nothing wrong with Dolan in particular, but a bit quiet last night and some seasoned campaigners to come back in.

Vandermeer or McNeil to sub.

FB Cleary, Jones, O’Donnell
HB Dale, Busslinger, Johannisen
C Williams, Bontempelli, Davidson
HF M Kennedy, Lobb, Harmes
FF McNeil/Vandermeer, Naughton, West
FOL English, Liberatore, Richards
INT Bramble, Freijah, Sanders, Treloar
SUB McNeil/Vandermeer

Should also add L Kennedy and Coffield bsck through the VFL, and with Khamis, Dolan and Hynes dropping down, ahould see some very solid depth running around for Footscray. Good position to be in.

So you are dropping Jones, who plays FB exclusively, for Khamis, who plays back, forward and relief ruck.

Not happening any time soon.

 

[Doggies7]

Just starting to motor and the vibes are great, please be fine Bont

 

[Mucat]

First 2 are fine,

Personally would like to see Jacques dominate for a month before bringing him in. He has been great so far but given there’s no one to drop from the backline rotation as Bramble was fine last night I’d get him to full earn it

Can you please what jacques is like

 

[go_sports_team]

Just starting to motor and the vibes are great, please be fine Bont

This has me stressing