Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) and the AFL

[aflfan1990]

Can we trust people who research AFL to look into this for the players? A lot of AFL researchers use a dodgy banned method of statistics called MBI.

Pies Sports Science - Cause of Injury Woes

https://www.theage.com.au/national/cold-water-poured-on-scientific-studies-based-on-statistical-cult-20191108-p538t6.html I'd like to reiterate, the president of the Australian Statistical Society “If I was ever to peer review a paper using magnitude-based inference then I would reject it and...

www.bigfooty.com

Given the AFL is basically a boys club, and one of MBI users has a project from the AFL on AFL injuries I'd be very shocked if the AFL looked into this properly.

 

[kickazz]

Actually, as was noted by Neil Craig fifteen years ago, the problem is that football has become a much more gridiron-style anaerobic game than it was in the past – much more stop/start and hitting hard.

Trends towards less aerobic and more anaerobic play are an inherent product of increasing focus on television audiences rather than attendances. Highly flowing, aerobic sports with few or no stoppages are extremely difficult to cover on television – they do not permit commercial breaks – and are poorly suited to the demands of lower classes possessing little leisure time and/or inadequate public transport to travel en masse to attend games at the ground. Added to this is a hotter, drier climate, artificial drying of grounds, and the phase-out of Waverley and the suburban grounds, which makes player-to-ground hits much harder than they would have been thirty years ago.

The problem with dealing with this is that commercial and political considerations make it impossible to restore the safer, more aerobic style of play found pre-Docklands – and if Farmer is any guide, even this may not be adequate to eliminate the risks.
Plus, more importantly, the requirements of television.

Interesting. But soccer is probably as far over on the aerobic side of the anaerobic/aerobic spectrum as you can get, and that is commercially viable worldwide. Indeed, they don't have the same ad break opportunities, so how do they ensure advertising revenue? Is it simply weight of numbers in its favour?

 

[kickazz]

Actually, as was noted by Neil Craig fifteen years ago, the problem is that football has become a much more gridiron-style anaerobic game than it was in the past – much more stop/start and hitting hard.

If (and that is a big if) we want to reverse this trend, surely a large reduction in interchange needs to be seriously considered.

 

[blackcat]

Interesting. But soccer is probably as far over on the aerobic side of the anaerobic/aerobic spectrum as you can get, and that is commercially viable worldwide. Indeed, they don't have the same ad break opportunities, so how do they ensure advertising revenue? Is it simply weight of numbers in its favour?

BSkyB pioneer(ed) cable (satellite cable TVs) for EPL and tv rights

ad revenue is fungible, consumers pay for EPL no ads... not like Foxfooty, that was NOT like FoxFooty...
(depending on elasticities, consumer elasticity) depends on the 'no ad' model of Rupert's part-owned BSB

Murdoch saw, like Kerry Packer, how in America sport tv rights were the ballast of a tv station programming

RussellEbertHandball

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

BSkyB pioneer(ed) cable (satellite cable TVs) for EPL and tv rights

ad revenue is fungible, consumers pay for EPL no ads... not like Foxfooty, that was NOT like FoxFooty...
(depending on elasticities, consumer elasticity) depends on the 'no ad' model of Rupert's part-owned BSB

Murdoch saw, like Kerry Packer, how in America sport tv rights were the ballast of a tv station programming

RussellEbertHandball

BSkyB for UK yes, but not for USA and some major Euro markets.

The original Fox Footy Channel 2002-06, like current Fox Footy 2012-16 and 2017-2022 version doesn't have ads during the game, but it had a lot less ads at other times compared to current version.

Only time I have watched a BSkyB EPL game was a couple of games in 1994 so can't tell you what situation was back then or is now.

 

[blackcat]

BSkyB for UK yes, but not for USA and some major Euro markets.

The original Fox Footy Channel 2002-06, like current Fox Footy 2012-16 and 2017-2022 version doesn't have ads during the game, but it had a lot less ads at other times compared to current version.

Only time I have watched a BSkyB EPL game was a couple of games in 1994 so can't tell you what situation was back then or is now.

Of course. Implicit was Rupert and Kerry take the model from America. And yes, why EPL, trailed Serie A and Primera Leagua

 

[blackcat]

and FoxEnt and NewsLtd, well assume News Ltd, own Sky Italy about 50% and BSB about 50 too, think they also own part of the ausNZ Sky

different proportions different partners

why Rupe WAS gonna push thru 100% of BSB pre Rebekah Brooks phracking scandal but needed DowningWestmister approval

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Of course. Implicit was Rupert and Kerry take the model from America. And yes, why EPL, trailed Serie A and Primera Leagua

David Hill the ex current affairs reporter for ABC's Today Tonight in the 1970's, including a famous report when he spent time in East Germany looking at East German athletes as they prepared for 1976 Montreal Olympic, said the Oz athletes had better watch out at the end of the report (in a very loud shirt) became Kerry's producer of World Serie Cricket and then after Packer and ACB signed a peace deal, Packer made him head of cricket and sport at 9.

Murdoch pinched him when BSkyB made the bid for the EPL and then a few years later he brought him to USA when Fox made a bid for the NFL rights and won.

On all 3 sports productions, he was instrumental in introducing new methodologies and technologies to improve the broadcast.

As simple as it seems, he was the one who introduced the score and time in the top left hand corner in 1992/93 EPL season. Before that, ie about 30 years of broadcasting soccer broadcaster all round the world, only put the score up on screen after a goal or in a break.

 

[blackcat]

David Hill the ex current affairs reporter for ABC's Today Tonight in the 1970's, including a famous report when he spent time in East Germany looking at East German athletes as they prepared for 1976 Montreal Olympic, said the Oz athletes had better watch out at the end of the report (in a very loud shirt) became Kerry's producer of World Serie Cricket and then after Packer and ACB signed a peace deal, Packer made him head of cricket and sport at 9.

Murdoch pinched him when BSkyB made the bid for the EPL and then a few years later he brought him to USA when Fox made a bid for the NFL rights and won.

On all 3 sports productions, he was instrumental in introducing new methodologies and technologies to improve the broadcast.

As simple as it seems, he was the one who introduced the score and time in the top left hand corner in 1992/93 EPL season. Before that, ie about 30 years of broadcasting soccer broadcaster all round the world, only put the score up on screen after a goal or in a break.

Susan Koch? 400?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Susan Koch? 400?

??? sorry mate not sure what you mean.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

On CTE, people seem to forget that Polly Farmer played in a violent era where king hits were delivered, which were against the rules, but people didn't get 20 games like you would now if you delivered one, no videos to catch them and stop them, but also punching blokes in the head when they went for a mark, in a pack situation, wacks in the head at ball ups and boundary throws from oppo ruckmen, and you could jump off the ground and smash someone in the head and it was called play on by the umpires.

The game has changed around these things a fair bit since 1971.

Polly Farmer was just as likely to starting getting CTE not from a bump, but from other things the game allowed between 1952 and 1971 when he played. A few bumps would no doubt have contributed.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Playing through the pain, athletes want access to WorkCover

A national athletes' alliance pushes for professional sportsmen and women to gain access to WorkCover to pay for operations and treatment of injuries sustained while playing.

www.abc.net.au

Article from 2015 for you.

Government would have to change the Workcover scheme.

W/comp is a dogs breakfast in most states so good luck trying to change it.

It also falls under state jurisdiction which is problematic for a national competition. If for example Victoria changes their laws but SA doesn't players will fall outside the system depending on which club they play at.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Correct. It’s why I struggle to see how someone like Joel Selwood isn’t going to have serious issues post footy. Constantly copping knocks to his head, constantly getting his head taped. Not good at all.

Yet all they talk about is what a warrior he is.

Sometimes it just depends on your genetics I guess. Mick Foley is one of the most well known wrestlers for taking punishment yet he hasnt experienced anything like some of the other wrestlers from his era who took way fewer chairshots to the head etc

View attachment xz8ior2fikmutmk36trm.webm

 

[ash_1050]

There will be plenty of players that end up being diagnosed with CTE in AFL and league, as they have in the NFL and NHL. That is absolutely irrefutable.

James Hird and Joel Selwood are two players who immediately spring to mind as having suffered multiple major head knocks throughout their career.

 

[FRUMPY]

There will be plenty of players that end up being diagnosed with CTE in AFL and league, as they have in the NFL and NHL. That is absolutely irrefutable.

James Hird and Joel Selwood are two players who immediately spring to mind as having suffered multiple major head knocks throughout their career.

So they should get money?

 

[ash_1050]

So they should get money?

Please refer to the part in my post where I said they should get money? I said they're players who I wouldn't be surprised that they end up suffering from CTE down the line as they have suffered repeated blows to the head.

 

[Chief]

BSkyB pioneer(ed) cable (satellite cable TVs) for EPL and tv rights

ad revenue is fungible, consumers pay for EPL no ads... not like Foxfooty, that was NOT like FoxFooty...
(depending on elasticities, consumer elasticity) depends on the 'no ad' model of Rupert's part-owned BSB

Murdoch saw, like Kerry Packer, how in America sport tv rights were the ballast of a tv station programming

RussellEbertHandball

They are live events that are resistant to pirating. Like breaking news events - miners stuck down a mine or Trump doing more mad shit. Most TV episodes are not critical live viewing, so you can pirate and cut out the ads.

 

[ash_1050]

While I'm by no means an expert on the subject I do know a bit more than your average punter as I've spent some time listening to CTE related topics for work.

Dr Anne McKee, leading CTE neuropathologist in the US, providese a quick synopis of CTE as:
"chronic traumatic encephalopathy, it’s a long name but it’s a neurodegenerative disease of the brain. It’s characterized by a buildup of tau, a protein that develops in the brain, it deposits in the brain in an abnormal form. We normally have tau in our brain and it helps the structure of the cells, it helps normal cellular function. After trauma, particularly if it’s whiplash and rotational trauma that’s suffered by contact sport athletes and military veterans and anyone else who has impacts to the head those blows to the head cause tau to become abnormally phosphorylated and it falls, it stops doing its normal function and it starts to build up as toxic clumps inside the cell. Over time, usually years, the nerve cells start to die off, they lose their connections with other nerve cells and if enough nerve cells are affected the person will start to show symptoms of the disease."

She also notes that of the brains they have studied there's "probably 300 plus former football players with CTE" and "two dozen hockey players" but that's due to a lack of hockey player brains to study, not due to lower incidents of CTE. She studied the brain of former NHL enforcer Todd Ewan, who committed suicide at age 49 after experiencing the effects of CTE.

I've listened to Todd's wife Kelli talk about the effects it had on Todd and his realisation of what was happening to him in the years before his suicide. She talks about how his temperament changed, how he slowly turned into a whole different person as a result of CTE and his suicide was because he could no longer live with the condition.

It's scary and the AFL needs to be doing more to protect current players and supporting retired players.

 

[blackcat]

They are live events that are resistant to pirating. Like breaking news events - miners stuck down a mine or Trump doing more mad shit. Most TV episodes are not critical live viewing, so you can pirate and cut out the ads.

Men
+ beer

Rv lost beer advertising market, oh no that is still ok, my error

as you were

 

[blackcat]

While I'm by no means an expert on the subject I do know a bit more than your average punter as I've spent some time listening to CTE related topics for work.

Dr Anne McKee, leading CTE neuropathologist in the US, providese a quick synopis of CTE as:
"chronic traumatic encephalopathy, it’s a long name but it’s a neurodegenerative disease of the brain. It’s characterized by a buildup of tau, a protein that develops in the brain, it deposits in the brain in an abnormal form. We normally have tau in our brain and it helps the structure of the cells, it helps normal cellular function. After trauma, particularly if it’s whiplash and rotational trauma that’s suffered by contact sport athletes and military veterans and anyone else who has impacts to the head those blows to the head cause tau to become abnormally phosphorylated and it falls, it stops doing its normal function and it starts to build up as toxic clumps inside the cell. Over time, usually years, the nerve cells start to die off, they lose their connections with other nerve cells and if enough nerve cells are affected the person will start to show symptoms of the disease."

She also notes that of the brains they have studied there's "probably 300 plus former football players with CTE" and "two dozen hockey players" but that's due to a lack of hockey player brains to study, not due to lower incidents of CTE. She studied the brain of former NHL enforcer Todd Ewan, who committed suicide at age 49 after experiencing the effects of CTE.

I've listened to Todd's wife Kelli talk about the effects it had on Todd and his realisation of what was happening to him in the years before his suicide. She talks about how his temperament changed, how he slowly turned into a whole different person as a result of CTE and his suicide was because he could no longer live with the condition.

It's scary and the AFL needs to be doing more to protect current players and supporting retired players.

We require the <control> sample, and major non-WADA non-succour mom input/eyes/filer, keep those two constituencies out, and do backchannel non censor investigation with sport doping in pro ranks, cos I think this is a problem. Certain tennis players poor behaviour? Cos the pituitary is pumping androgens from peptides*

*exception to rule is johnny macenroe

and it is highly selective sample of A-Type individuals who are preternaturally aggressive and physical

 

[ash_1050]

We require the <control> sample, and major non-WADA non-succour mom input/eyes/filer, keep those two constituencies out, and do backchannel non censor investigation with sport doping in pro ranks, cos I think this is a problem. Certain tennis players poor behaviour? Cos the pituitary is pumping androgens from peptides*

*exception to rule is johnny macenroe

and it is highly selective sample of A-Type individuals who are preternaturally aggressive and physical

You're arguing with a disease which, at this point in time, is believed by the leading doctors in the field to be caused by trauma to the brain. There's thousands upon thousands of samples of brains they've looked at from people who have not suffered instances of head trauma and as a result no instances of CTE have been detected. Consider that your control sample.

They've also studied brains of athletes who have not suffered head knocks or suffered only very minimal instances of trauma and such such no instances of CTE were detected. She's noted it's not just contact sports that cause CTE, it can also occur in car accident victims, military personnel or anyone who has suffered brain trauma. It's simply more prevalent in sports where people take more knocks to the head that it is the rest of the population who don't.

 

[blackcat]

They are live events that are resistant to pirating. Like breaking news events - miners stuck down a mine or Trump doing more mad shit. Most TV episodes are not critical live viewing, so you can pirate and cut out the ads.

Don't buy, don't believe Hollywood agitprop, it is all about TPP and IP treaties.

Scaffolding of programming is sport. Much like relationships with American networks to take their new tv productions, they need anchor and scaffold(ing) that major sport offers. But this is before new models of watching and atomisation of tv watching eyeballs(consumers). And we are going to have further shift with the OTT(over-the-top) viewership model where league has internet with mobile viewership individual membership/subscription. Beyond Fox and Telstra, Google/Amazon/Facebook have interest and vice versa with Gillon. So building up vertical capacity in AFL Media. Always thought Kim Williams should have concerned himself w Turnbull and 4G and 5G and the fibre optic roll-out because this is their tv freeway

 

[blackcat]

You're arguing with a disease which, at this point in time, is believed by the leading doctors in the field to be caused by trauma to the brain. There's thousands upon thousands of samples of brains they've looked at from people who have not suffered instances of head trauma and as a result no instances of CTE have been detected. Consider that your control sample.

They've also studied brains of athletes who have not suffered head knocks or suffered only very minimal instances of trauma and such such no instances of CTE were detected. She's noted it's not just contact sports that cause CTE, it can also occur in car accident victims, military personnel or anyone who has suffered brain trauma. It's simply more prevalent in sports where people take more knocks to the head that it is the rest of the population who don't.

how more, why does this get set aside from Queenberry rules for a good century.

There is something more than this discrete lens you assess. The zeitgeist that sees PaddyMcCa and WPerkuvsky behave like StockholmSyndrome participants. I think the last psychologist for AFL was in Fairfax about March of last year(2019) echoed my intuition, which suspected moralpanic influences, amorphous non-tangible inputs. The American psychologist Jonathan Haidt traces the overarching phenomenon to 70's cabletv.

NB this is NOT to say CTE does not have serious effects on some sufferers, even though we cannot fully appreciate real-time effects married to the explicit diagnosis.

currentmedia networking effects/ NFL players Union payout/ Demetriou's front-foot to ameliorate liabilities to civil actions/ moralSCARE to vulnerable youth

This presents a paradox of one chooses(in this professional sport perspective) to take a discrete scientific lens on the phenomenon.

 

[ash_1050]

how more, why does this get set aside from Queenberry rules for a good century.

There is something more than this discrete lens you assess. The zeitgeist that sees PaddyMcCa and WPerkuvsky behave like StockholmSyndrome participants. I think the last psychologist for AFL was in Fairfax about March of last year(2019) echoed my intuition, which suspected moralpanic influences, amorphous non-tangible inputs. The American psychologist Jonathan Haidt traces the overarching phenomenon to 70's cabletv.

NB this is NOT to say CTE does not have serious effects on some sufferers, even though we cannot fully appreciate reality-time effects married to the explicit diagnosis.

currentmedia networking effects/ NFL players Union payout/ Demetriou's front-foot to ameliorate liabilities to civil actions/ moralSCARE to vulnerable youth

This presents a paradox of one chooses(in this professional sport perspective) to take a discrete scientific lens on the phenomenon.

Smiling Buddha is that you?

 

[blackcat]

Smiling Buddha is that you?

Nope. Ask SRP forum old timers. And the Doping forum.