Coach Clarkson has left the building

[Klem]

Dermie going bang at the minute
Good on you Dermie

If Dermie says it it’s usually wrong. Didn’t he want Eade or Wallace as coach.

 

[Luv_our_club]

The one thing I will say to people who support what has happened (including the decision but not how it happened).

You can't mess with culture. It is fragile.

Jeff has for many years terrified many Hawthorn supporters who know that the culture of a club is fragile.

Many other Hawthorn supporters seem to think our culture will last forever and can survive anything.

I can't see what chance Mitchell has now. And even if he does succeed, what cultural legacy does he carry forward?

 

[Luv_our_club]

If Dermie says it it’s usually wrong. Didn’t he want Eade or Wallace as coach.

Dermie is 100% behind Jeff on every decision, right or wrong. Including his Sky News opinions.


He is my favorite ever player but he doesn't make much sense lately.(last 5-10years).

 

[Luv_our_club]

Jeff's thinking process:

"I will be remembered for:

- setting up Dingley
- setting up AFLW team
- setting up new coach...."



It was all about Jeff's ego. I am devastated. I have seen this coming in slow motion ever since Jeff came back.

 

[Klem]

2nd saddest day of my life. After the announcement a few weeks ago. Can’t believe how bad I feel about the whole thing.
good governence what a great way of covering your butt.
don’t give the coach who is a once in a lifetime quality person the right to go out on his own terms and basically destroyojng the fabric of the club.
Jeff ypu burnt the state down with your arrogance and lost the un losable election and gave us so many wasted years of labour.
and now you’ve done the scorched earth policy employed so well employed by good old Saddam and basically I’m done.
last comment ever and I don’t care who responds.
my winters are free now and I cancelled fox sports today so thanks for the memories.

 

[flinchfree]

A couple of points. I have supported the club throughout the careers of ALL of the coaches you have named and without denigrating the others - who were fantastic - the best coach for me is Clarkson. How many coaches have you actually watched in action?
Yabbie didn't take us to seven grand finals in a row in a competition (initially with only 12 teams and no salary cap). And you've completely forgotten Alan Joyce.
And finally, I'm so sorry that you find other people's opinions 'tiresome'. You sound just like Kennett so don't complain about being accurately labelled as a bullyboy

I know you have zero self awareness, but you have posted incessantly on this thread and quite abruptly shut anyone down who doesn't think the same as you.
Seeing as you're so fond of labels, here's yours.
Dick.

 

[flinchfree]

The only unanswered question at this point is: Who was feeding Caro details of interactions between Clarkson and Mitchell that only a primary participant could know? Who primed Caro to warn Mitchell that he better watch what he says about Clarkson?

i reckon those are come pretty interesting questions that won’t get a straight answer. But whoever was doing it leaves an ugly stain behind them.

Yup.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Who told C. Wilson??

It was a dogs breakfast.

- The board were unhappy.

- And most of the the team were unhappy.

-Clarkson was telling his friends (like Lyon and Dunstall) what was happening... but they just fed to the media his want to remain coach beyond 2021.

- Jeff was talking to a lot of people, like Eddie Maguire, about Clarko's contract terms.... no doubt he was talking to others.

- Players like T. Mitch, Wingard, dont owe any loyalty to the club. Their first loyalty is to their coach.

The only truth C. Wilson ever reported was what? Her real scoop was that Sam Mitchell is a bossy baby? if that is the truth then god help us.... but so far she seems right

 

[flinchfree]

.............

You can't mess with culture. It is fragile.

Jeff has for many years terrified many Hawthorn supporters who know that the culture of a club is fragile.

Many other Hawthorn supporters seem to think our culture will last forever and can survive anything.

I can't see what chance Mitchell has now. And even if he does succeed, what cultural legacy does he carry forward?

Couldn't agree less. The Culture of this Club was changed forever by John Kennedy. The fact he's no longer with us has no impact. You are equating Clarko with ALL good that's ever happened here. Plenty of people have done just as much or more.

If Jeff has terrified you that's a shame. I just see him as an arrogant dufus.

Lol at your last sentence above. Michell can't succeed. If he does it's no good for the Club.
Just wow.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Couldn't agree less. The Culture of this Club was changed forever by John Kennedy. The fact he's no longer with us has no impact. You are equating Clarko with ALL good that's ever happened here. Plenty of people have done just as much or more.

If Jeff has terrified you that's a shame. I just see him as an arrogant dufus.

Lol at your last sentence above. Michell can't succeed. If he does it's no good for the Club.
Just wow.

I really really really wish i could agree.

Nothing is forever. Especially culture. Not even for Hawthorn...

and yet your view is what has caused so many supporters to go to sleep on Jeff thinking everything was secure = complacency.

I don't know how Mitchell can now talk to new recruits or coaches and talk about our culture without them having huge doubts in their mind. Every other Hawthorn coach has had a PRISTINE start to their tenure.

I think our culture can survive 15 years of latency after rupture before a serious rescue mission would be needed to enter again and resuscitate it (like a Jason Dunstall 2004). That is a huge compliment to our club and it's people. Most clubs can't survive 5 year before culture and identity become lost and confused. If the Hawks don't make a cultural rescue in the next 15 years then we could become the MFC or CFC. I don't want to spend 10 years waiting for a correction. I hope that doesn't happen. I hope Sam Mitchell proves a values driven person and proves it in dramatic ways. It is now his most important task... right now he has damaged our culture.


A huge obstacle is that we have lost Kennedy, Arthur, Jeans and Clarkson... and any Clarkson loyalist, such as ex coaches or ex players . We have LOST THEM in building for the future.

Clarkson sent Buddy and Ruffy to visit Kennedy and Jeans. Who will Sam send his players to visit?

 

[flinchfree]

I really really really wish i could agree.

Nothing is forever. Especially culture.

I don't know how Mitchell talks to new recruits or coaches and talks about our culture without them having huge doubts in their mind.

I think our culture can survive 15 years of latency after rupture before a serious rescue mission would be needed to enter again and resuscitate it (like a Jason Dunstall 2004). That is a huge compliment to our club and it's people Most clubs can't survive 5 year before culture and identity become lost and confused.

I don't want to spend 10 years waiting for a correction.

I hope that doesn't happen. I hope either Mitchell proves a values driven person and proves it in dramatic ways. It is now his most important task... right now he has damaged our culture.

What on Earth mate?
I get you love the Club. But your painting of this is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO overblown.
It's like you think ours is the only Club having a shitty time moving on a Coach?
Do you know how many Clubs in the AFL have gone through this EXACT situation and still managed to bring in quality coaches and recruits and free agents and gone on to win Flags? And have huge supporter bases entirely comfortable with their 'culture'?
Mate. Culture is a present thing. It's what people feel like as they spend time in a place and work with those around them.
We are going through change. I get it, no one likes change especially when they associate what's in the past as having positive feelings.

But it's ok. Truly it is.
Parko was a very good man. We let him go and he wasn't super happy about it. We moved on and went again.
Why would you fantasize a future of dystopian awfulness for our Club? Why?

This Club will go again. We will move on people from the board, including Jeff.
Sam will hire assistants that can implement his blueprint for success. They will be thrilled for the professional opportunity and full of energy to bring a new age of winning to this team.
It'll be ok. Really. Just breathe.....

 

[Luv_our_club]

What on Earth mate?
I get you love the Club. But your painting of this is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO overblown.
It's like you think ours is the only Club having a shitty time moving on a Coach?
Do you know how many Clubs in the AFL have gone through this EXACT situation and still managed to bring in quality coaches and recruits and free agents and gone on to win Flags? And have huge supporter bases entirely comfortable with their 'culture'?
Mate. Culture is a present thing. It's what people feel like as they spend time in a place and work with those around them.
We are going through change. I get it, no one likes change especially when they associate what's in the past as having positive feelings.

But it's ok. Truly it is.
Parko was a very good man. We let him go and he wasn't super happy about it. We moved on and went again.
Why would you fantasize a future of dystopian awfulness for our Club? Why?

This Club will go again. We will move on people from the board, including Jeff.
Sam will hire assistants that can implement his blueprint for success. They will be thrilled for the professional opportunity and full of energy to bring a new age of winning to this team.
It'll be ok. Really. Just breathe.....

Maybe i think my club is unique and it has led to a flag every 4 years for 50 years.

i have followed the club for over 40 years in my life.... and so believe me..,,,there IS something special and fragile about the club.

The worst thing we can ever become is generic.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Close sources to a player and they don't mind people knowing say Rival player approached by HFC rep to change clubs and quite in depth discussion.
When contacted HFC no one knew anything about it and have no interest.
Rep was not happy to say the least and said that person knows.
Guess who?

???

 

[Pessimistic]

Nope. Players hated Joyce. Then Alan couldn't manage his own ego enough to work things through with the Club's board.
Weird take you've got.

just looking at the various books about hawthorn and the whole 1993-1996 low point. finance a key issue in part due to overpaid players.

I hope I’m dead wrong in seeingparalells

 

[Pessimistic]

If Dermie says it it’s usually wrong. Didn’t he want Eade or Wallace as coach.

Ayres

 

[Pessimistic]

Jeff's thinking process:

"I will be remembered for:

- setting up Dingley
- setting up AFLW team
- setting up new coach...."



It was all about Jeff's ego. I am devastated. I have seen this coming in slow motion ever since Jeff came back.

setting up the Victorian liberals for a bright future…..oh wait

yoU forgot his quite unnerving love for Tasmania. Perhaps the plan is to run the club so low a move to tassie is the only option

 

[Luv_our_club]

Everyone was acting for themselves.. Jeff, Sam, the board, the fans who let it happen. The Hawthorn podcasts that reported on the issue like it was a surplus without any cuts to their benefits. (Hawlktalkpod and Talking Hawks)

In Clarkson We Trust

 

[flinchfree]

The one thing I will say to people who support what has happened (including the decision but not how it happened).

You can't mess with culture. It is fragile.

Jeff has for many years terrified many Hawthorn supporters who know that the culture of a club is fragile.

Many other Hawthorn supporters seem to think our culture will last forever and can survive anything.

I can't see what chance Mitchell has now. And even if he does succeed, what cultural legacy does he carry forward?

Well, good to know you've been watching a while...
Long enough to have seen Kennedy Sr not just coach us to glory in 61' / 71' / 76' and losses in the 63' & 75' GF's, but leave and then years later coach North.
Long enough to have seen Parkin be a great of the Club as a player and then not just coach us to the 78' Premiership - but leave just 2 years later and coach Carlton to multiple premiership cups.
Long enough to know Jeansy came to us having coached the Saints to their first premiership. A freakin St Kilda man took us to insane levels of success!!!

Clarko was a punt that sailed 80 meters for the most memorable of goals. People like to remake the process as him having this savant moment that just made it a fait a complit he would have success with us.
Not so much. A great hire by the Chief, but it took special circumstances of the right players to make it work.

Sam might make it, might not.
Clarko will have had 17 years. That's a pretty good run and an ok time for someone new to take their moment.

 

[Pessimistic]

Well, good to know you've been watching a while...
Long enough to have seen Kennedy Sr not just coach us to glory in 61' / 71' / 76' and losses in the 63' & 75' GF's, but leave and then years later coach North.
Long enough to have seen Parkin be a great of the Club as a player and then not just coach us to the 78' Premiership - but leave just 2 years later and coach Carlton to multiple premiership cups.
Long enough to know Jeansy came to us having coached the Saints to their first premiership. A freakin St Kilda man took us to insane levels of success!!!

Clarko was a punt that sailed 80 meters for the most memorable of goals. People like to remake the process as him having this savant moment that just made it a fait a complit he would have success with us.
Not so much. A great hire by the Chief, but it took special circumstances of the right players to make it work.

Sam might make it, might not.
Clarko will have had 17 years. That's a pretty good run and an ok time for someone new to take their moment.

‘that’s all and good, but the rest of the jealous AFL was happy to see the end of the Hawthorn name in 1996.

I doubt kiddies raiding their piggy banks would bail the club out were something similar to happen now

 

[Luv_our_club]

Well, good to know you've been watching a while...
Long enough to have seen Kennedy Sr not just coach us to glory in 61' / 71' / 76' and losses in the 63' & 75' GF's, but leave and then years later coach North.
Long enough to have seen Parkin be a great of the Club as a player and then not just coach us to the 78' Premiership - but leave just 2 years later and coach Carlton to multiple premiership cups.
Long enough to know Jeansy came to us having coached the Saints to their first premiership. A freakin St Kilda man took us to insane levels of success!!!

Clarko was a punt that sailed 80 meters for the most memorable of goals. People like to remake the process as him having this savant moment that just made it a fait a complit he would have success with us.
Not so much. A great hire by the Chief, but it took special circumstances of the right players to make it work.

Sam might make it, might not.
Clarko will have had 17 years. That's a pretty good run and an ok time for someone new to take their moment.

This is different.

This is not a car park hand over like Kennedy=Parkin.

Or a brain injury for Jeans. And a back to back commitment with Joyce.

Or a loss to another club like Judge.

Or just a petering out, like Schwab and Knights.


But even then, all of the incoming coaches had clean hands.


Clarkson compared himself to Hird (drugs) and Eddie (cancel culture) in his press conference on Friday... imagine Clarkson saying he got done like Hird?


We have lost Kennedy and Jeans and Arthur. Now we have lost Clarkson. And we have lost his connection to the club post coaching *he might as well be deceased to us now... until his old age golden years when he come home to us.

You should mourn FlinchFree. Mourn and be angry. This is not worthy of Hawthorn.

This is not the time to be saying to the club... "well done". Or.... "oh, well"... Or... "what have we really lost on balance?"..

And I guarantee our culture is not immune. And if it is immune then it is also way overrated.

 

[flinchfree]

This is different.

This is not a car park hand over like Kennedy=Parkin.

Or a brain injury for Jeans. And a back to back commitment with Joyce.

Or a loss to another club like Judge.

Or just a petering out, like Schwab and Knights.


But even then, all of the incoming coaches had clean hands.


Clarkson compared himself to Hird (drugs) and Eddie (cancel culture) in his press conference on Friday... imagine Clarkson saying he got done like Hird?


We have lost Kennedy and Jeans and Arthur. Now we have lost Clarkson. And we have lost his connection to the club post coaching *he might as well be deceased to us now... until his old age golden years when he come home to us.

You should mourn FlinchFree. Mourn and be angry. This is not worthy of Hawthorn.

This is not the time to be saying to the club... well done. Or.... oh, well... Or... what have we really lost on balance?...

I didn't say the Club has 'done well' though this.
It's done poorly.
But seemingly unlike you I've seen plenty done poorly before at the HFC, and we've fixed things up as we could and moved forward.
That's what I choose to do.
Also, the potting of Mitchell I think is really disappointing.
Until we hear otherwise, he's the least at fault in this process outside of doing his job well enough to be wanted by numerous AFL Clubs as a coach.
Kennett's not really a Hawthorn person, I don't really care people shredding him.
Sam. He's been every bit as important to our most recent period of success as Clarko and has every bit as much Brown and Gold running through his veins. Until PROVED he manipulated all this to his favor, it's poor to offload disappointment over Clarko leaving onto his back.

 

[MinerBoy]

Also, the potting of Mitchell I think is really disappointing.
Until we hear otherwise, he's the least at fault in this process outside of doing his job well enough to be wanted by numerous AFL Clubs as a coach.
Kennett's not really a Hawthorn person, I don't really care people shredding him.
Sam. He's been every bit as important to our most recent period of success as Clarko and has every bit as much Brown and Gold running through his veins. Until PROVED he manipulated all this to his favor, it's poor to offload disappointment over Clarko leaving onto his back.

Go Hawks

 

[deanc]

just looking at the various books about hawthorn and the whole 1993-1996 low point. finance a key issue in part due to overpaid players.

I hope I’m dead wrong in seeingparalells

Being fairly well read on this era and others, 'player payments' was actually a small part of the issue - and it only become an issue during the period you mention, thanks to the financial mismanagement and spending that started back in the late 80's. Depending on the books you're reading see if you find mention of former President Trevor Coote and/or former CEO John Lauritz.

These clowns authorized ridiculous expenses for years - such as property 'investments' in other states requiring loans, first class airfares for all board members, their families and other club directors, house rents paid for nearly half the senior team and/or leased cars and of course all senior staff had luxury vehicles, lavish expense accounts for board members and directors to use for 'marketing' and 'entertaining' purposes etc. etc.

When Hudson assumed the role in late 94' as CEO, first thing he done was get external auditors in (KPMG I think) who spent months unraveling the clubs true financial position. Aside from the dubious property deals they also unearthed; undeclared accrued expenses, credit extensions, other loans or deferred payments, unregistered donations/gifts etc.
The 2nd action Hudson undertook was to get Geoff Lord removed as the President.

Anyway, this is just a summary and some of the poor financial budgeting/related management/non-declarations, that wasn't just incompetence during this era, it was actually borderline criminal...!

 

[Xtreme]

Close sources to a player and they don't mind people knowing say Rival player approached by HFC rep to change clubs and quite in depth discussion.
When contacted HFC no one knew anything about it and have no interest.
Rep was not happy to say the least and said that person knows.
Guess who?*

Is your mystery person bald ?

 

[Luv_our_club]

Every time i think it about it....

We had the privilege of having 15 years of Clarkson,

And

We also lost the privilege of having 30 years of Clarkson and being really really spoiled supporters


How do you jettison the coach that every other club is now bending over backwards to get... and who was the main link in our cultural fabric right when that fabric was at a weak point