Club Song Change: While her loyal sons to 'While Our Loyal Swans'

[Jeffers]

AFL club changes two words to team song

Australia is no longer “young and free” and the Sydney Swans no longer have any “sons”.

www.news.com.au

First it was 'what though the odds' to 'whether the odds' now it seems we have made another change to be more inclusive of everyone.

I get it and it is definitely the right move, but it will be hard to get used to singing it.

 

[Jeffers]

 

[Ticky009]

Good on you Swans!

Now all we need to do is regroup post Covid and get those training facilities back on track.

 

[Crust]

AFL club changes two words to team song

Australia is no longer “young and free” and the Sydney Swans no longer have any “sons”.

www.news.com.au

First it was 'what though the odds' to 'whether the odds' now it seems we have made another change to be more inclusive of everyone.

I get it and it is definitely the right move, but it will be hard to get used to singing it.

No problem with the "Swans" for "sons" but I refuse to sing "whether the odds".

 

[Nool Carpenna]

Good on you Swans!

Now all we need to do is regroup post Covid and get those training facilities back on track.

Start a group and create a bit of a presence at games... S.A.M.... Swans Against Misogyny.
Sports Rorts 2.0... ummm, I mean Community Sports Infrastructure Program looms larger by the minute.

 

[Millky95]

Took me like 6 minutes to even remember what the line was before the change. It is a small change for some but a big change for most. Good call imo

Not that we will sing it much anyway

 

[SM]

Fantastic change but agree on the 'whether the odds', will always be 'what though' to me!

People who have an issue with this change don't have much going on with their lives IMO.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Took me like 6 minutes to even remember what the line was before the change. It is a small change for some but a big change for most. Good call imo

Not that we will sing it much anyway

Let's be real, it's the other way around, big change for very little, small change for most. I'm not one to care much about these political issues but the ones supporting such a petulantly small change shouldn't be caring so much about it, just as those complaining about it shouldn't really be complaining either.

The word 'son' doesn't always refer to men only

 

[SM]

Let's be real, it's the other way around, big change for very little, small change for most. I'm not one to care much about these political issues but the ones supporting such a petulantly small change shouldn't be caring so much about it, just as those complaining about it shouldn't really be complaining either.

The word 'son' doesn't always refer to men only

Can you give a context where it's used to describe women?

 

[zyzzbruh]

Can you give a context where it's used to describe women?

Along with describing a male offspring, the word son can also refer to anyone who is connected with a certain environment. Just as the word 'man' can also refer to the whole of humankind

It shouldn't matter anyway. Who cares. One can only be offended by a word if they choose to be. And one can feel inclusive regardless of a word if they choose to be.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Lyrics modernized with both changes. Funny I have always sung "whether the odds" anyway. Inclusion without exclusion. Well done!

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Is it still ok to refer to countries and ships with the female pronoun? What about our planet?

 

[zyzzbruh]

Is it still ok to refer to countries and ships with the female pronoun? What about our planet?

I think this just proves that you can choose to do whatever you like regardless of what majority tell you. As long as in your head you are playing the moral high ground, you can never be wrong and everyone must abide.

 

[SM]

What a surprise that there's some melts already for something that enrichens the experience for all and cheapens it for none.

 

[Syd]

I will plug my ears during the banjo solo in deference to our Tasmanian brethren

 

[RUNVS]

You know how sometimes you are extremely surprised that people are related because they look so different? Well this is not one of those times, looking at Kirk's kids there is no doubt they are all related.

 

[zyzzbruh]

What a surprise that there's some melts already for something that enrichens the experience for all and cheapens it for none.

The fact that this has any bearing on anyones experience is pure petulance. If this enriches your life in any way then i'd suggest you go an find a hobby instead of wasting your life worrying about language definitions.

 

[SM]

The fact that this has any bearing on anyones experience is pure petulance. If this enriches your life in any way then i'd suggest you go an find a hobby instead of wasting your life worrying about language definitions.

Out of interest, are you a woman?

 

[zyzzbruh]

Out of interest, are you a woman?

I know what you're trying to get at. But it's irrelevant.

Creating and developing the woman's football team is what defines inclusiveness. A word in a song doesn't define anything.

 

[Daniel B]

I never understood who "her" was referring to. Anyone know?

 

[SM]

I know what you're trying to get at. But it's irrelevant.

Creating and developing the woman's football team is what defines inclusiveness. A word in a song doesn't define anything.

Well it's not. You're asserting that the change doesn't matter, but the change wasn't made to appease you, so if anything to be honest your opinion is a bit irrelevant.

You don't get to say what does and doesn't define things, you only have to look at the countless women and girls who have commented on the Swans announcement with joy and happiness. That alone makes it worthwhile. It really says a lot more about a person who has such a negative view of this change such as yourself than it does of the Swans organisation for making the change.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Well it's not. You're asserting that the change doesn't matter, but the change wasn't made to appease you, so if anything to be honest your opinion is a bit irrelevant.

You don't get to say what does and doesn't define things, you only have to look at the countless women and girls who have commented on the Swans announcement with joy and happiness. That alone makes it worthwhile. It really says a lot more about a person who has such a negative view of this change such as yourself than it does of the Swans organisation for making the change.

Who said I have a negative view on it? And why are you taking away my right to define things yet give it to someone else?

You can spin it whatever way you like the fact of the matter is what defines this particular issue is action. Not me, not you, not anyone else. It's action pure and simply. Creating and developing a woman's team is real action. That's what defines inclusion. Language isn't a real thing, it's just an inanimate form of communication. I could bullshit anything to you with words yet not stand by it at all. To prove that point - imagine they changed the song wording without having introduced a womens team...They would look stupid because they'd be acting like they're promoting inclusion of women without actually including them. The wording of an inanimate song means nothing and defines nothing.

Why are you allowing words (which aren't a real thing) dictate your experience of life? You're not living life if you waste it trying to define everything. Reality is no one actually cares about anyone, and the world doesn't owe anyone anything. Get on with it and stop choosing to be offended or enriched by words. And stop promoting all people, including these girls and women, to base their experience of life and happiness on inanimate things that they have no control over.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I never understood who "her" was referring to. Anyone know?

Pardon the intrusion. The song was taken from Notre Dame University (the American one). "Her" either refers figuratively to the university as an institution, or since Notre Dame is French for "Our Lady", it could refer to the Virgin Mary, her sons being Catholics in general.

On that subject, Notre Dame either as an institution or as a person is a separate entity to "her sons", so it sort of makes sense to have different lines referring to the impending victory of both parties. But in the Swans' song now, it ends "Swans will come out and win overall, while our loyal Swans are marching onward to victory". Which seems a little redundant, but whatever, as long as you folks enjoy singing it, that's what matters.

 

[SM]

Who said I have a negative view on it? And why are you taking away my right to define things yet give it to someone else?

You can spin it whatever way you like the fact of the matter is what defines this particular issue is action. Not me, not you, not anyone else. It's action pure and simply. Creating and developing a woman's team is real action. That's what defines inclusion. Language isn't a real thing, it's just an inanimate form of communication. I could bullshit anything to you with words yet not stand by it at all. To prove that point - imagine they changed the song wording without having introduced a womens team...They would look stupid because they'd be acting like they're promoting inclusion of women without actually including them. The wording of an inanimate song means nothing and defines nothing.

Why are you allowing words (which aren't a real thing) dictate your experience of life? You're not living life if you waste it trying to define everything. Reality is no one actually cares about anyone, and the world doesn't owe anyone anything. Get on with it and stop choosing to be offended or enriched by words. And stop promoting all people, including these girls and women, to base their experience of life and happiness on inanimate things that they have no control over.

Why am I not surprised you've gone down this avenue.. Best to leave things here mate. I'm sure if you still sing sons the secret police won't arrest you.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Why am I not surprised you've gone down this avenue.. Best to leave things here mate. I'm sure if you still sing sons the secret police won't arrest you.

I genuinely couldn't care less what the words are. I'll more than happily adopt the new words, i just won't let it dictate my happiness and vitality. I just find it funny and quite sad that people actually do.