Collingwood List Management Thread

[the distributer]

Ben Johnson has said he wants to go around again next year.

It's a club decision now. I think he'll get another year.

Leroy only confirmed out. Definitely only select 3 players for the senior list this year and one may well be Witts.

Still need to cut/trade at least 2.

I think JMac may be off loaded for more opportunities elsewhere.

Not convinced with Witts going str8 on the senior list, makes no sense, if he starts ripping it up in the VFL we can just upgrade him, i agree Jmac looks gone though, pretty shallow draft from all reports so we wouldn't want to over commit in it.

 

[Nicco_jj]

J thomas and seedsman have no chance of being delisted.
Trent Stubbs and Daniel Farmer out.

Even Harry obrien has said seedsman looks awesome. But he needs another preseason to bulk up, etc.



as another thought...
what about Goldy to attempt L Brown's role? He is 1cm shorter and has prooved a degree of versatility.

 

[Old Spice]

Josh Thomas has been cruelled by an interrupted season, but someone that is very in and under and with blitzkrieg pace is not for the scrapheap.

Seedsman is clearly in the purview of Bucks who I noticed spent a bit of time with him at the last game against the Zebras. Once he has a pre-season and gets bigger and works on his defensive side, he'll be a good player. Good poise and bulked up a fair amount over the year.

Leroy is number one and Leon will go as well by the sounds so that's two.

If we are going to give this draft a wide berth like we did in 2007, then there's only one more to go. I hardly imagine Thomas (and Seedsman as a 1st year player) are on the chopping block.

They might make a decision on Dicky, which would be a shame given his talents. I'd also not be surprised if they tried to do a Prismall with J-Mac, but his visibility has been low. We bat too deep in the midfield and McCarthy's forward presence has not been a feature.

 

[i_hate_scams]

as another thought...
what about Goldy to attempt L Brown's role? He is 1cm shorter and has prooved a degree of versatility.

i would like to see how much he needs to eat to get there.

 

[Knightmare]

as another thought...
what about Goldy to attempt L Brown's role? He is 1cm shorter and has prooved a degree of versatility.

Goldy plays his best footy down back for mine.

Optimally you'd be looking at someone a little taller to play that role. L.Brown is on the short side as is and you'd really be looking at 198cm+ as that no.2 ruckman ideally.

Much shorter than that and you're killing a players career unless a strong Tom Hawkins type build with durability.

 

[blaze036]

Seedsman is a first year player, who was named as an emergency for the seniors on at least one occasion this year. I can't see how you're drawing the conclusion that he's going to take too long to develop and that he hasn't shown enough to get excited about. In the VFL games I went to and watched on the TV this year, he is one that stood out for me. I would think that the club would be very happy with his development in his first year. Whether or not he makes it as an AFL player, only time will tell. However, for you to write him off after only one season seems far too early.

I would think that the biggest thing that will count against Josh Thomas is that he's been quite injury prone so far. I expect that he'll be on the list next year, but that he would need to start playing senior footy to be there any longer than that. The club seems to rate him fairly highly, so that would appear to be in his favour.

Im not writing off Seedsmen persay, more trying to contain the massive unfounded hype around the two, personally i dont think he'll be a top player, he could make it as a solid afl player.

Also Seedsmen has only been named emergency once this year? same number times as ugle (who also is not close to a senior game) just named to give a bit of confidence / reward.

Seedsmen seems to have not a great build, similair to cale morton, the type who really struggles to bulk up, can anyone confirm how much weights his put on this year?

 

[Yoda_]

Goldy plays his best footy down back for mine.

Optimally you'd be looking at someone a little taller to play that role. L.Brown is on the short side as is and you'd really be looking at 198cm+ as that no.2 ruckman ideally.

Much shorter than that and you're killing a players career unless a strong Tom Hawkins type build with durability.

Ive been thinking about this a little bit, dont see why Cam Wood and Darren Jolly in the same side cant work for a year or two until Johnathan Ceglar comes in and plays that role, or perhaps even Lachlan Keefe as that second ruck, forward/back utility.

 

[blaze036]

Ive been thinking about this a little bit, dont see why Cam Wood and Darren Jolly in the same side cant work for a year or two until Johnathan Ceglar comes in and plays that role, or perhaps even Lachlan Keefe as that second ruck, forward/back utility.

Woods not very good up forward. His the number 1 ruckmen type, but jolly is still better in that role so two number 1 ruckmen in the same team doesnt work.

 

[Knightmare]

Ive been thinking about this a little bit, dont see why Cam Wood and Darren Jolly in the same side cant work for a year or two until Johnathan Ceglar comes in and plays that role, or perhaps even Lachlan Keefe as that second ruck, forward/back utility.

Jolly plays his best in 75%+ ruck minutes.

Wood to produce his best results is the same, needs to play as the no.1 ruckman. But not nearly a best 22 quality player. Hasn't shown any significant develop since joining the club and looks like a depth player at best.

Keeffe with L.Brown retiring will likely take over that no.2 role but would like to see him play a different variation of the role to what other no.2 ruckman play. Plays his best footy as a key back so could very easily play the majority of his minutes on the resting ruckman down back rather than forward - where he isn't really super dangerous at this early stage of his career.

 

[Old Spice]

Seedsmen seems to have not a great build, similair to cale morton, the type who really struggles to bulk up, can anyone confirm how much weights his put on this year?

Pfft. Morton has been in the system for years without bulking up and is slow as treacle.

Never seen Morton chop an arm in the contest to get away. Seedsman was able to do this against big bodied players in the VFL. He's got potential, so long as he doesn't get lazy and works on his defensive side.

His build is ten times better than Mortons and he has much better decision making capabilities. Admittedly though, Morton is a bust.

 

[blaze036]

Keeffe with L.Brown retiring will likely take over that no.2 role but would like to see him play a different variation of the role to what other no.2 ruckman play.

Highly doubt this? he hasnt even been playing any ruck minutes in the vfl He'd have absolutly no idea what to do. If the club wanted him to be the future 2nd ruckmen surely he'd be rucking the vfl?

 

[bucksisbest]

Keefe is not a ruck or a forward, he plays well as a back at VFL level, average to poor when he has been tried in those positions at both levels. Doesn't have the spring or the physicality for it.

Can't believe people who know are still bothering to defend Thomas or Seedsman.

 

[Old Spice]

Jolly plays his best in 75%+ ruck minutes.

Wood to produce his best results is the same, needs to play as the no.1 ruckman. But not nearly a best 22 quality player. Hasn't shown any significant develop since joining the club and looks like a depth player at best.

Keeffe with L.Brown retiring will likely take over that no.2 role but would like to see him play a different variation of the role to what other no.2 ruckman play. Plays his best footy as a key back so could very easily play the majority of his minutes on the resting ruckman down back rather than forward - where he isn't really super dangerous at this early stage of his career.

You need to get real. Wood is developing slowly but surely and may well get a significant amount of game time next year if, as I suspect, Jolly is on the decline with significant knee issues.

The 2nd portion of the reality check is that there's nothing else ready made. Witts won't be destroyed under Bucks as a premy ruck. Keeffe is poised to be the Leroy replacement, not a 1st ruck replacement. Ceglar is not close in my view.

We may throw a first round and fringe player for Macintosh, but after several seasons of throwing top picks at ruckmen its questionable. We might go for a VFL type ready / servicable 1st ruck option as a back-up

 

[Old Spice]

Keefe is not a ruck or a forward, he plays well as a back at VFL level, average to poor when he has been tried in those positions at both levels. Doesn't have the spring or the physicality for it.

Can't believe people who know are still bothering to defend Thomas or Seedsman.

Keeffe can make it as a defender. He's not fit enough, that's his issue. He runs like puffing billy, but his reading of the play and kicking is okay.

On Thomas and Seedsman, their biggest problem is our depth in terms of players not likely to be spilled any time soon. It would be gargantuan for Thomas to knock off Ball for a spot, but I'd be curious under Bucks to see if he gave him a shot.

Seedsman has the same problem a la Shaw and O'Brien, but it would have to be a sure bet that the club wont delist either, unless Hine has some sneaky APS / bush type unknowns up his sleave.

 

[blaze036]

Keeffe is poised to be the Leroy replacement, not a 1st ruck replacement. Ceglar is not close in my view.

His poised to replace our 2nd ruckmen... has keefe actually ever rucked before? he doesnt do it at vfl (witts/mcnamara/ceglar/wood cover it) and hasnt tried it at AFL when his been in the team for memory (unless he did it at 1 or 2 forward 50 throw ins or something i missed)

 

[Knightmare]

Highly doubt this? he hasnt even been playing any ruck minutes in the vfl He'd have absolutly no idea what to do. If the club wanted him to be the future 2nd ruckmen surely he'd be rucking the vfl?

Hasn't needed to play any ruck minutes at VFL level. Have had Wood, McNamara and Ceglar playing there all year.

Suspect with another preseason in the gym he might get minor ruck minutes from next year now that his body is starting to build.

 

[bucksisbest]

Keeffe can make it as a defender. He's not fit enough, that's his issue. He runs like puffing billy, but his reading of the play and kicking is okay.

On Thomas and Seedsman, their biggest problem is our depth in terms of players not likely to be spilled any time soon. It would be gargantuan for Thomas to knock off Ball for a spot, but I'd be curious under Bucks to see if he gave him a shot.

Seedsman has the same problem a la Shaw and O'Brien, but it would have to be a sure bet that the club wont delist either, unless Hine has some sneaky APS / bush type unknowns up his sleave.

Thomas and Seedsman may have some problem in terms of having strong senior players in front of them, but what I'm getting at is that anybody who has had a reasonable viewing of them would chuckle at the prospect of them being delisted in the next 12 months.

Brown's unexpected retirement gives us some breathing space with the 3 positions we will have to open up on our main list.

 

[Knightmare]

You need to get real. Wood is developing slowly but surely and may well get a significant amount of game time next year if, as I suspect, Jolly is on the decline with significant knee issues.

The 2nd portion of the reality check is that there's nothing else ready made. Witts won't be destroyed under Bucks as a premy ruck. Keeffe is poised to be the Leroy replacement, not a 1st ruck replacement. Ceglar is not close in my view.

We may throw a first round and fringe player for Macintosh, but after several seasons of throwing top picks at ruckmen its questionable. We might go for a VFL type ready / servicable 1st ruck option as a back-up

Agree with you that Jolly is on the decline. Has struggled with injury. Hopefully he can rebound but at 30 it is hard to see him getting back to his very best. As long as he is on our list though he is our no.1 ruckman.

Wood on the other hand I don't agree on. In my view has only had the one good senior game this year. A couple of okay games. But in the main has been pretty poor at AFL level. At VFL level hasn't dominated. Is a 24 year old and has hardly if at all developed in my view. Still the same inconsistant, immature ruckman who came to our club for mine.

Never made mention of Keeffe as a no.1 ruck. Only see the possibility that he could replace L.Brown as the no.2 ruckman.

Witts I think should be developed as a key forward for the first 2 years while he builds up physically and develops that durability that he will need to play a long career as hopefully our next generation no.1 ruckman.

Ceglar in the VFL I would look to develop as a long term no.2 ruckman. Long way away. Agree. But has shown some promise at times.


McIntosh isn't one I'd target - personality and injury questions makes me think no. If I traded into a ruckman Zac Clarke and Shaun Hampson would probably be the two I would target.

Don't know what the club is thinking here but my plan all along has been to trade into a serious ruckman the moment Jolly retires. But with injury questions hanging over Jolly perhaps we need to act now. Certainly the time to start thinking about it. Maybe if the right deal is there, maybe we go for it. Hope we do.

Reason why I would. Wood will never take us to a premiership.
With our premiership window open maybe we need to go hard for one of these this offseason. If there is any question that Jolly won't be able to take us to a premiership again next year then I'd do it.

 

[mdc]

The bit about trading for Hampson gets funnier every time.

And if we're going for Z.Clarke, we might as well ask them to throw in Fyfe while we're at it.

 

[blaze036]

Thomas and Seedsman may have some problem in terms of having strong senior players in front of them, but what I'm getting at is that anybody who has had a reasonable viewing of them would chuckle at the prospect of them being delisted in the next 12 months.

Brown's unexpected retirement gives us some breathing space with the 3 positions we will have to open up on our main list.

I think its fairly universally accepted that they will both get a minimum of 1 year more . After that though, particulary Thomas will deffinitly be on the chopping block if he hasnt got into the team with the SUPERDRAFT comming up.

 

[Quicky]

The bit about trading for Hampson gets funnier every time.

And if we're going for Z.Clarke, we might as well ask them to throw in Fyfe while we're at it.

People bang on about Cox and Naita. Sandi and Clarke are an equally effective combo. Much underhyped.

 

[Nicco_jj]

Goldy plays his best footy down back for mine.

Optimally you'd be looking at someone a little taller to play that role. L.Brown is on the short side as is and you'd really be looking at 198cm+ as that no.2 ruckman ideally.

Much shorter than that and you're killing a players career unless a strong Tom Hawkins type build with durability.

How bout nate brown? 195cm tall, 101 kgs. Hes big and strong....?
or taz?

 

[Knightmare]

How bout nate brown? 195cm tall, 101 kgs. Hes big and strong....?
or taz?

Worry for Nate injury wise. Wouldn't risk him in the ruck myself.

From our list the no.2 ruck choices for mine are Keeffe + Ceglar. Ceglar is a long way off yet. Keeffe could step into that role.

Wood will just stay on as our backup ruckman who comes in to take over whenever or if even Jolly misses - much like this year minus the final few rounds this year where Jolly + Wood have played together - hopefully never happens again.

Outside of this though the only other possibility really is looking externally - which would likely mean acquire an option via trade.

 

[TradeDraft]

Worry for Nate injury wise. Wouldn't risk him in the ruck myself.

From our list the no.2 ruck choices for mine are Keeffe + Ceglar. Ceglar is a long way off yet. Keeffe could step into that role.

Wood will just stay on as our backup ruckman who comes in to take over whenever or if even Jolly misses - much like this year minus the final few rounds this year where Jolly + Wood have played together - hopefully never happens again.

Outside of this though the only other possibility really is looking externally - which would likely mean acquire an option via trade.

I would not count Ceglar for not playing a Few AFL games next season if he has a Really Good Pre-Season

 

[Frankie23]

Thoughts on Jack Gunston from Adelaide?

Reports on the Adelaide forum suggest he is more or less gone due to homesickness, Rucci from 5AA said he is in talks with a team in 'stripes' (Us, Hawthorn or North..?).

Seems a really good prospect, 193cm so can play a KPP, would most likely come at a price though after some late season form (5 goals against the Tigers)