Opinion Commentary and media

[naturally north]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/beh...s/news-story/8d827f9d7670d3f7311d759bfa44f8aa

is this same David King who cost us victory against the Saints a few years ago? Just sayin....

 

[tales129]

Here's the thing. If we were Geelong/Hawthorn/Sydney then the coach wouldn't need to be telling the player what to do. It would be automatic that player X would hover around 40-50 out instead of charging forward, or that a defensive leader would have a word in his ear advising as such. This type of response is what Scott has said he is looking for for years. Some of our blokes, specifically our leaders, need to take a good hard look at themselves and what it is they want to achieve and what kind of imprint they want to leave on the club.

And here is the chicken egg scenario.
Is it because they have good leaders or is it because they've been led well.


Brad needs to become harsher and give a few clips for that shit, not the we know what it is and we can fix it mentality. There unfortunately isn't enough ruthlessness.

Whether that's due to brads cuddly nature or that's just a product of the players we have, who knows? I'd be identifying it publicly and whacking some blokes for it so that there is some accountability.

 

[King Corey]

is this same David King who cost us victory against the Saints a few years ago? Just sayin....

True but as much as he's a knob in the media, King definitely won us more than he lost. Gun (player).

 

[GarnerSmash]

And here is the chicken egg scenario.
Is it because they have good leaders or is it because they've been led well.


Brad needs to become harsher and give a few clips for that shit, not the we know what it is and we can fix it mentality. There unfortunately isn't enough ruthlessness.

Whether that's due to brads cuddly nature or that's just a product of the players we have, who knows? I'd be identifying it publicly and whacking some blokes for it so that there is some accountability.

And yep, agree with this too.

The coach needs to emplore his leaders to grow some ****ing nuts and take charge in these situations.

 

[Roosurgence]

Here's the thing. If we were Geelong/Hawthorn/Sydney then the coach wouldn't need to be telling the player what to do. It would be automatic that player X would hover around 40-50 out instead of charging forward, or that a defensive leader would have a word in his ear advising as such. This type of response is what Scott has said he is looking for for years. Some of our blokes, specifically our leaders, need to take a good hard look at themselves and what it is they want to achieve and what kind of imprint they want to leave on the club.

But there is the problem. You keep absolving Scott of all the blame for players not following instruction when in fact he sets the standard for this type of behaviour by not sending them to the VFL until they do follow instruction.

He can't have it both ways, you can't keep telling everyone that players arent following direction but then keep selecting them week in week out.

All those clubs you mentioned would make their players follow these instructions or send them to they reserves until they do.

The whole issue is that Scott is setting this culture where players are not held accountable. I'm sure a stint at Werribee would enforce a good culture for players who continually ignore instruction. Instead of him bleating on about it a press conferences, why doesn't he take action? The only ones that seem to made examples of are 1-4 year players, senior players are never punished for not following team rules.

 

[giantroo]

 

[GarnerSmash]

But there is the problem. You keep absolving Scott of all the blame

I'm sorry, I keep what?

for players not following instruction when in fact he sets the standard for this type of behaviour by not sending them to the VFL until they do follow instruction. He can't have it both ways, you can't keep telling everyone that players arent following direction but then keep selecting them week in week out.

There is specific direction (such as running patterns, stoppage set ups, defensive transitions etc) and then there is taking control of a situation by responding to the flow of the game that leaders should have. It is a conundrum. Do you drop guys who are good players who get us into winning positions but who don't take charge in the last few minutes for a lesser player who may otr may not be as good and perform for 95% of the game to the same level, or do you ram home the point until the penny drops?

All those clubs you mentioned would make their players follow these instructions or send them to they reserves until they do.

The point is that these would not be specific instructions, but decisions made by leaders to control the game when the time arises. A coach needs to be able to rely upon his leaders to suss this shit out and get it done. We can't. Geelong of the last decade could, ditto Hawks. (Which again raises the point, do you drop our leaders for not being able to do that? Tough question.)

The whole issue is that Scott is setting this culture where players are not held accountable. I'm sure a stint at Werribee would enforce a good culture for players who continually ignore instruction. Instead of him bleating on about it a press conferences, why doesn't he take action? The only ones that seem to made examples of are 1-4 year players, senior players are never punished for not following team rules.

I don't necessarily disagree with the safe selection thing but we aren't talking about ignoring instruction. We are talking about players taking the lead and making it happen themselves, which is a very different thing altogether. Close losses will continue to happen until this gets addressed by the players. The coach can guide, the coach can make some moves in the last minute but he will also rely on leadership. This is a cross the board failing.

 

[Roosurgence]

They practice these scenarios all preseason. Yes the leaders need to rally the troops, but at AFL level these scenarios are practiced frequently during preseason.

Unfortunately our guys don't seem to follow through, now wether that is through dumbness or fatigue then that is a different issue?

My point is that Scott has control over these things by the message he sends at selection. Can't follow instruction when these scenarios arise, either through fatigue or dumbness then go play VFL until you can.

No good getting into a position to win if you can't actually follow through and win.

Standards need to be set. It shouldn't matter who you are. If you can't do what's required then go back to the VFL until you can. Only by enforcing these standards will you produce a culture where players do what is required, when it's required. Players who frequently underperform or don't follow team instruction is becoming common place with this list and it won't improve until a culture where it isn't acceptable is enforced. Why do you think we lose so many close ones?

A club with a good strong culture would be setting that example this week by dropping Swallow and LT. I doubt Scott will do this, most likely outcome is a 1-4 year player making way for someone to come in.

Enough of the carrot, time for the stick!

 

[GarnerSmash]

They practice these scenarios all preseason. Yes the leaders need to rally the troops, bht at AFL level these scenarios are practiced frquently during preseason.

Unfortunately our guys don't seem to follow through, now weather that is through dumbness or fatigue then that is a different issue.

My point is that Scott has control over these things by the message he sends at selection. Can't follow instruction when these scenarios arise either through fatigue or dumbness then go play VFL until you can.

No good getting into a position to win if you can't actually follow through and win.

Standards need to be set. It shouldn't matter who you are. If you can't do what's required then go back to the VFL until you can. Only by enforcing these standards will you produce a culture where players do what is required, when it's required. Players who frequently underperform or don't follow team instruction is becoming common place with this list and it won't improve until a culture where it isn't acceptable is enforced.

A club with a good strong culture would be setting that example this week by dropping Swallow and LT. I doubt Scott will do this, most likely outcome is a 1-4 year player making way for someone to come in.

Hang on, so Swallow and LT were at fault for us not holding our lead?

What about the player that dashed off the half back line into the centre square with a minute to go? Or JZ and Cunners for languising about hte half back line instead of covering space? Or Taz for trailing his man? Or JMac for not setting up the defence with a minute to go? I'm confused as to what we are discussing.

 

[Reginald0]

The main reason we DID NOT lose close games in 14 15 and 16 was NDS

Only bloke with composure in last few minutes

 

[Donkey Chop]

Hang on, so Swallow and LT were at fault for us not holding our lead?

What about the player that dashed off the half back line into the centre square with a minute to go? Or JZ and Cunners for languising about hte half back line instead of covering space? Or Taz for trailing his man? Or JMac for not setting up the defence with a minute to go? I'm confused as to what we are discussing.

Watching the clip, it's pretty obvious to me is a coaching issue. Sure Cunnington, Ziebell etc take some heat for not being switched on, but surely North weren't set up right after Johnson kicked that goal.

Who was the player that ran off the HBline? Whoever did that was under instruction? I don't get it. We play a loose in defence except when there's a minute to go and we're a point up?

It's a whole bag of shit.

 

[muttley45]

The main reason we DID NOT lose close games in 14 15 and 16 was NDS

Only bloke with composure in last few minutes

Bingo, i was about to post the samething, IIRC, once Dal came into the team, he did a lot of the organising and changing tempo when required, an area we were pretty inept at in previous seasons, eg inability to ice games when in winning positions, where we now seem to find ourselves once more.

 

[Roosurgence]

Hang on, so Swallow and LT were at fault for us not holding our lead?

Swallow and LT were responsible for us having to defend a lead. Their performances were not only substandard against Freo, but they have been substandard for the majority of the first 5 weeks.

Time to set the standard and make an example of underperforming senior players.

Everyone needs to know that you only get games when you perform and not due to how many games you have played at AFL level.

We are discussing a lack of culture within our current list. Scott has made too many excuses for underperformance and a the lack of will to structure up when the game is on the line.

If all the players that you mentioned keep makin those errors then they can go join them in the VFL as well.

Brad Scott has been banging on about the same shit for years about players not doing the right thing at the right moment, but never takes any real action to correct it.

As I said time to get out the stick and make sure all the playing group are under no disillusion that if you don't do what's required no matter who you are then you go and play at Werribee.

It's easy to talk about it at a Press Conference or in a talk show, but how about fixing it? If he can't fix it then quit and let someone else have a go at fixing it.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Watching the clip, it's pretty obvious to me is a coaching issue. Sure Cunnington, Ziebell etc take some heat for not being switched on, but surely North weren't set up right after Johnson kicked that goal.

Who was the player that ran off the HBline? Whoever did that was under instruction? I don't get it. We play a loose in defence except when there's a minute to go and we're a point up?

It's a whole bag of shit.

What the vision doesn't show is when Mundy pushed forward to create the extra forward. If he had been in that position for 1-2 minutes then the coach wears that. If he just pushed up and was not tracked then its his direct opponent, or the leadership, for not recognising this and making the numbers match at the least or to get the plus one going. And where was our extra defender? It would be great to see the vision from the same spot for the previous 2 minutes to determine if the extra got sucked out of position or was removed altoghether. Without that we can only assume.

Furthermore, after the pill hit the ground deep in the F50 Kersten had the option of centering the ball. All Freo running into the F50 with our guys trailing badly. Effort.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Swallow and LT were responsible for us having to defend a lead. Their performances were not only substandard against Freo, but they have been substandard for the majority of the first 5 weeks.

Time to set the standard and make an example of underperforming senior players.

Everyone needs to know that you only get games when you perform and not due to how many games you have played at AFL level.

We are discussing a lack of culture within our current list. Scott has made too many excuses for underperformance and a the lack of will to structure up when the game is on the line.

If all the players that you mentioned keep makin those errors then they can go join them in the VFL as well.

Brad Scott has been banging on about the same shit for years about players not doing the right thing at the right moment, but never takes any real action to correct it.

As I said time to get out the stick and make sure all the playing group are under no disillusion that if you don't do what's required no matter who you are then you go and play at Werribee.

It's easy to talk about it at a Press Conference or in a talk show, but how about fixing it? If he can't fix it then quit and let someone else have a go at fixing it.

Here I was thinking that we were discussing leadership in key moments, which is what my initial post that you repiled to was about. These are two different topics with very different intricacies.

I agree that the time for change is here. I stated two weeks ago that if we are 0-5 then there is no point playing any senior player who is not a) playing in their preferred role, or b) in form. Let this current crew forge their own destiny now. Jack Z talks a big game and puffs up his chest, but can he deliver better in the leadership stakes than Boomer, Dish and Swallow could? Lets see...

 

[Caracas]

I liked it, but I don't like it at all. Those two in particular - top 10 picks, given the inside running to develop as senior footballers and go and far and fast as their talent could take them, and with plenty of experience in games and training drills - should know what to do in situations like this. There's not much you can do as a coach from the sidelines with a minute or so to go, but you shouldn't have to with these kind of players on the field. I know Jack was injured on the night, but he was out there on two legs and with a voice - the captain's voice - to make things happen for the team.

And it's happened way too often to console yourself thinking they'll learn from it. Over and over again, switching off before the game is finished. Un-Shinboner-like.

It's can only be a good thing that this vision has come to light. Let's face, both Ziebell and Cunnington are very much players that we supporters generally believe to be gutsy and prepared to leave everything on the field. This vision puts the lie to that. However, it also shows that it wouldn't take too much to sort it out. As for Jack and Cunners, it might be a case of complacency and "drinking their own bath water", so to speak. I really expect a big change in that department from here on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gasometer]

Hang on, so Swallow and LT were at fault for us not holding our lead?

What about the player that dashed off the half back line into the centre square with a minute to go? Or JZ and Cunners for languising about hte half back line instead of covering space? Or Taz for trailing his man? Or JMac for not setting up the defence with a minute to go? I'm confused as to what we are discussing.

Simpkin trotting up behind Neale.

Atley standing off the stoppage 10 metres.

Gibbo doing the same.

 

[Jindrrk]

My god I just saw the video of the Sam Lane theatre thing. That was so cringe worthy. Never heard anyone call a girl a flog before, but she is a definite one.

 

[SMaturin]

You can see where Brad gets the 'easily fixed' line from.

I'd suggest the only difference between his explanation to the media and to the players is one of intonation, volume and an added profanity.

To the media: 'These errors are easily fixed'.

To the players: 'THESE ERRORS ARE EASILY ****ING FIXED!'

 

[Horizons_00]

From afl.com

An 0-5 record generally doesn't lend itself to positive developments, and the Roos are no different. Rival teams are not only punishing them more on turnovers this season (23.3 per cent compared to 22.1 per cent last year), but they are leaking goals like a sieve in the fourth quarter. It is no coincidence then that North has given up multiple big leads and suffered losses by five or fewer points three times. The Kangaroos' daring approach of using the corridor more often out of defensive 50 – 24.8 per cent of the time, up from 15 per cent in 2016 – helps explain opposition sides' greater potency on turnovers. Figuring out why North has conceded five goals or more in every fourth quarter this season is tougher. You have to go back to round 20 last year against the Dogs to find a game where the blue-and-white won a final term. Are Brad Scott's men not fit enough? That seems too simplistic. Fremantle stars Nat Fyfe and David Mundy were enormous down the stretch on Saturday night, so maybe the answer lies with the Roos' leaders. Not even Marley Williams' brilliant chase down could inspire the team to hold on. - Marc McGowan

 

[Jindrrk]

Thanks Mark...I mean Marc. Such positivity.

 

[kangaspurs]

I would have thought that the fault lies with both the coaching and leadership in that scenario.

The leaders, particularly Ziebell and Cunnington who are senior midfielders, just have to be better, they have to work harder and be more aware. JMac and Taz also obviously need to be communicating from their vantage point more effectively and identifying when it's time to push up in teh dying minutes of a close game.

Alternatively, it's clear that our structures put in place for this late game scenario where we are holding a slender lead are effectively either nonexistent (which would be completely inexcusable from Scott considering how often we've been in, and lost in this scenario), or the players aren't fit enough to execute them. I think it was Jordan Lewis who said that at Hawthorn they used to specifically train for this scenario. That vision shows it's pretty clear that we either don't, or we have no set structure for that point of the game, which is an indictment on the coach.

 

[Roosurgence]

There is one thing I think we can all agree on and that is that the message from Brad Scott is not getting through.

For whatever reason that is, who knows? But if a coach can't get his message across then time to move on.

 

[Twinkletoes]

I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall during this week's video reviews of the game. Not only the overall one with the senior coach but the ones with the line coaches and those with individuals. There must've been some very glaring mistakes made for all to see.

I hope the final quarter was examined openly, honestly and as thoroughly as the Kennedy assassination.

Identifying the issues is the easy bit. Rectifying them is what will count.

 

[Le Grille]

I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall during this week's video reviews of the game. Not only the overall one with the senior coach but the ones with the line coaches and those with individuals. There must've been some very glaring mistakes made for all to see.

I hope the final quarter was examined openly, honestly and as thoroughly as the Kennedy assassination.

Identifying the issues is the easy bit. Rectifying them is what will count.

We're told the fixes are easy.