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List Mgmt. Contracts/Trade/Draft Thread - 2025 Edition

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Players out of Contract 2025 (12)
  • Oscar Allen (19/3/99) - Signed a 3 year extension (2023-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2022 in May 2021
  • Campbell Chesser (27/4/03) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2023 in May 2022
  • Tom Cole (28/5/97) - Signed a 3 year extension (2023-25) in May 2022
  • Rhett Bazzo (17/10/03) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2023 in September 2022
  • Jayden Hunt (3/4/95) - Signed a 3 year contract (2023-25) in October 2022
  • Callum Jamieson (31/7/00) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in March 2023
  • Jamie Cripps (23/4/92) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in August 2023
  • Jack Petruccelle (12/4/99) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in August 2023
  • (R) Loch Rawlinson (1/6/05) - Signed a 1 year extension (2025) in September 2024
  • (R-B) Coen Livingstone (25/5/05) - Signed a 1 year extension (2025) in September 2024
  • (R-B) Malakai Champion (17/5/06) - Automatic 1 year contract (2025) when added as a Cat B Rookie in November 2024
  • (R) Jacob Newton (20/3/06/) - Automatic 6 month contract (2025) when drafted in May 2025

Provisional 2025 Draft order
 

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The difference is, that their good players requested trades so it's not like Richmond pushed them out the door.
Yep and that’s a good point, big difference between facilitating the exit of players that wanted a fresh start versus pushing loyal players with years of service out the door.
 
Richmond's ins this week are Prestia, Lynch, Nankervis (and Sonsie).

Their outs include Samson Ryan and Maurice Rioli Jr omitted, with Lalor and Dow injured.

Just a lazy 600 games more experience added to the side.

Our 5 ins haven't played 50 games between them. But yes their rebuild is complete and it's the young players that have them flying*.

*16th with 3 wins and a percentage under 70.

This weeks teams comparison as of now, will change when final teams are named later today

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I think long term Richmond are going to have injury issues. They keep playing guys who aren't physically ready. It will come back to bite them eventually on at least 1-2 of their talls.

I think once the Golden oldies retire they are in for North like levels of pain.

They have done quite poorly from this lot given what they gave up. Evenness of the draft just meant a heap of top picks didn’t count to much. Pick 30 was no different to pick 12 in the end
 
I don't really have a stake in this argument (other than being a WC supporter obviously)

But putting up a graphic of 20 players (split perfectly at 10 from each club incidentally) but then cutting off your stat at 7 because it made your point sound better i thought was interesting

Carry on
7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby.
 

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We could say 6 of the top 10 are Tiges players, which would still be a very odd position to be in for a team that started the rebuild two years earlier than the tigers did.

If we started two years earlier you’d expect that west coast would have more than 4 of the top 10 rated players no?
Taking into account the situation/scenario they have to play in is an important piece of information thats not displayed on your player ratings screenshot.
As others have alluded to if we had Yeo all year so far then our players likely would have far better player ratings.

The game is a lot easier when youre the bumped back a position in the midfield pecking order. Imagine if Harley was our 2nd mid, Hewett 3rd and Hough 4th instead of being 1/2/3 in there over the last month or so
 
Just as an aside - whilst Richmond on face value are in a good position for this years draft with picks 2 and 3, their 3rd pick isn’t until their R5 pick at 75. They traded away their R2, R3 and R4 picks in this years draft

By contrast, we not only have picks 1 and 13 in R1, but also 19 and 31 in R2 and 49 in R3 with the possibility of adding another pick at the top of the
draft if Allen leaves

So we stand to have 2 very pointy end picks just as Richmond do, but another R1 pick, 2x R2 picks and a R3 pick before we both have our respective R5 picks
 
The only real proxy indicator for talent is where you taken in the draft.

There’s little doubt that Richmind have had access to better talent just by virtue of the picks they had last year and in 2021 compared to what we have had over the same period.

Talent acquisition is the hardest part of a rebuild becuase you generally need to spend years at the bottom to get access to the top end of the draft.

The simple observation is Richmond has taken years off their rebuild by going all in on 2024 (and 2025) draft.

And that’s why perceptions of each club are different, despite reality that they’re not very far apart- mind you we should be streets ahead 4 years in.
Reality is we are still comfortably ahead.

For young KPFs would you take Sims, Armstrong and Faull or JWilliams, Archer and Shanahan, id pick our ones.
Harley easily > Lalor
Hewett > Hotton imo
Allan vs Smillie isnt an easy win for them, a lot of people had Allan going before Smillie in mock drafts.
Hard to find a direct comparison for Trainor but Hough and Ginbey are still very good anyway, we are still ahead.

Weve also filled out the depth of our young players pretty well, the Tigers have barely started.

The only reason they look better than us right now is that they have their senior players doing the roles you really dont want under 22s doing: inside mid, ruck and the more defensive KPD.

We dont have good senior players doing any of those roles right now lol, we had Gov for a bit but he was never a lockdown player
 
The only real proxy indicator for talent is where you taken in the draft.

There’s little doubt that Richmind have had access to better talent just by virtue of the picks they had last year and in 2021 compared to what we have had over the same period.

Talent acquisition is the hardest part of a rebuild becuase you generally need to spend years at the bottom to get access to the top end of the draft.

The simple observation is Richmond has taken years off their rebuild by going all in on 2024 (and 2025) draft.

And that’s why perceptions of each club are different, despite reality that they’re not very far apart- mind you we should be streets ahead 4 years in.
Not necessarily. Nate Caddy for one was on a few teams top 4 of their white board (including ours apparently) which looks more accurate then how the draft fell 18months on. Lawson Humphries another. Just gotta have some good scouts, all of them will miss at times of course but as long as they hit more than most.
 
Taking into account the situation/scenario they have to play in is an important piece of information thats not displayed on your player ratings screenshot.
As others have alluded to if we had Yeo all year so far then our players likely would have far better player ratings.

The game is a lot easier when youre the bumped back a position in the midfield pecking order. Imagine if Harley was our 2nd mid, Hewett 3rd and Hough 4th instead of being 1/2/3 in there over the last month or so

This is conjectural, and suggests that we are the only team that suffers injuries, when in fact we have been one of the healthiest teams in comp up til 2 weeks ago.

Tiges have also missed Prestia, Lynch, Nankervis, Hopper and Taranto and obviously Malta at times this year.

I think what you're saying is true, it's just applicable to both (and all) teams, just not west coast.
 
Not necessarily. Nate Caddy for one was on a few teams top 4 of their white board (including ours apparently) which looks more accurate then how the draft fell 18months on. Lawson Humphries another. Just gotta have some good scouts, all of them will miss at times of course but as long as they hit more than most.
Sure, draft is a flawed indicator, the point is there is no real better proxy indicator to use.
 
We went from comparing ourselves against the hawks to the Tigers.
I think our u23 has a more even spread of talent and experience. The midfield is our problem with a lack of ruck and onballers. Tigers lacking half backs with mid potential

Bazzo.......Brock.......Maric
Ginbey....Shanahan...Grego

BAllan....Hough.......Dewar

Long.......AReid.......Hutch
Newton....JWill.......Champion

Livingstone, Harley, Hewett

Int: Hall, Brockman, Gross, HJ, Davis
emg Chesser, Barnett, Rawlinson

vs

Brown....Gibcus.....Smith
Gray......Blight......Trainor

Banks....Dow....Ralphsmith

Campbell..Armstrong...Hotton
Rioli........Faull.........Clarke

Sims, Smillie, Lalor

Int: Sonsie, Fawcett, McAuliffe, Algar, Green
emg Bauer, Tresize
 
Reality is we are still comfortably ahead.

For young KPFs would you take Sims, Armstrong and Faull or JWilliams, Archer and Shanahan, id pick our ones.
Harley easily > Lalor
Hewett > Hotton imo
Allan vs Smillie isnt an easy win for them, a lot of people had Allan going before Smillie in mock drafts.
Hard to find a direct comparison for Trainor but Hough and Ginbey are still very good anyway, we are still ahead.

Weve also filled out the depth of our young players pretty well, the Tigers have barely started.

The only reason they look better than us right now is that they have their senior players doing the roles you really dont want under 22s doing: inside mid, ruck and the more defensive KPD.

We dont have good senior players doing any of those roles right now lol, we had Gov for a bit but he was never a lockdown player

The only part of this post I think I agree with is that Richmond has managed their young players better by having older guys in the key posts in ruck and midfield.

Everything else is speculative at most (other than Harley > Lalor obviously).

I have a lot of faith in Reid and Shanahan, but there is nothing we have seen that suggests they're streets ahead of Armstrong, Faull, Sims.

I'm not gonna turn this into a post where I shit on all our young players, but I think it's fair to say other than HReid, Shanahan, AReid, Hewett, Hough, Brockman I don't think there are many players on our list have potential to be anything other than role players.
 
This is conjectural, and suggests that we are the only team that suffers injuries, when in fact we have been one of the healthiest teams in comp up til 2 weeks ago.
We dont have the personnel even when healthy lol. Our senior players are nearly all role players and flankers, plus KPFs. Their senior players are contested players - guys who do the dirty work + defenders.
Tiges have also missed Prestia, Lynch, Nankervis, Hopper and Taranto and obviously Malta at times this year.
Taranto has played every game this year. Nank missed 1 game, but it was only against Essendon who were playing a 40 year old in the ruck.
Theyve had Vlastuin, Broad and Miller for every game this year, Vlastuin and Broad in particular control their d50 while our only comparable leader who sets up our d50 is Gov.
I intentionally left out Lynch, hes not as relevant to this topic, but hes still played 9 of 11 games so far lol.
I think what you're saying is true, it's just applicable to both (and all) teams, just not west coast.
Im not suggesting we are the only ones who suffer injuries, but you cant seriously argue that its easier to perform as a young player in a midfield of Harley(20), Hewett(21) and Hough(22) than it is when you have a couple of contested mids in their prime like Taranto and Hopper playing every week as the #1 and 2 guys in the middle.

If we had Taaranto + Hopper it would allow Hewett and Harley to play more freely, and rate better, Gross could more easily play low TOG in the middle as we would have 2 guys who can both do 80% CBAs each, Ginbey wouldnt have to play as defensively as the ball wouldnt be coming in as easily, our young KPFs would have more ball coming in as the midfield would be stronger, etc

Its not just Yeo, its that they have 3 senior players playing good footy in the middle, we have 0

Do you think Lalors player rating would be that high if he played for the Eagles? Do you think Thomas Sims is as good of a player as Archer Reid - as the player ratings suggest? Do you think Kane McAuliffe is better than Gross or Hough?
 
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This is conjectural, and suggests that we are the only team that suffers injuries, when in fact we have been one of the healthiest teams in comp up til 2 weeks ago.

Tiges have also missed Prestia, Lynch, Nankervis, Hopper and Taranto and obviously Malta at times this year.

I think what you're saying is true, it's just applicable to both (and all) teams, just not west coast.

Hopper, Taranto, Vlasutin, McIntosh, Broad have played every game this year. Nankervis missed one.

In theory Yeo is our best mid and Kelly is our second best. That allows Reid, Hewett, Hough etc. so share minutes and combinations with Graham, Baker, whoever that are senior players but not A grade mids.

In practice Yeo is our best mid but hasn't played and Kelly has been dropped and now moved to HF. So we're relying on Reid, Graham, Baker, Hough, Hewett to carry the load. Who is our best mid this year? Graham is #1 for clearances, Baker is #1 for disposals and inside 50s, Hewett and Reid have been OK but haven't been full time mids and Hewett has only played 8 and a bit games. We've also been hamstrung by the fact that we don't have a clear #1 ruck and none of our ruck options are much good even in combination.

But we'll get there. Hopefully. If Hewett and Hough can play the rest of the season in the middle that's enough for me.
 
The only part of this post I think I agree with is that Richmond has managed their young players better by having older guys in the key posts in ruck and midfield.
That wasnt intentional by them, thats just how the cards fell.
If we had sold the farm for a couple of mid 20s mids a couple of years ago then we would look a lot stronger too lol.
Everything else is speculative at most (other than Harley > Lalor obviously).

I have a lot of faith in Reid and Shanahan, but there is nothing we have seen that suggests they're streets ahead of Armstrong, Faull, Sims.
I didnt suggest streets ahead, im suggesting we have accumulated more talent and are not behind in the rebuild.
 
I think what is built in to the assumption is Tigers will avoid a king and depressing time at the bottom as they have acquired a lot of young talent already.

I doubt you’ll find many (if any) people taking our list over Richmond’s at this point in time.

whether that is reactionary or not is yet to be determined, but Tiges have far exceeded everyone’s expectations and we have been quite dreadful at times.
They have gone above expectations because they caught the blues out in round one and fell over the line against the Eagles at home. Put A fit Yeo and Gov in that side?
They have plenty of pain in front of them as do we yet.
 
It's a bit Captain Obvious but elite talent changes everything.

WC went from Cousins and Gardiner to adding Kerr, then Judd, then as Gardy did Gardy things (and an ACL) Cox decided he wanted to throw his hat in the ring for the best ruckman of the era. No one really rated Embley, Braun, Fletcher etc. before the fab 4 teamed up. Tyson Stenglein was a great recruit but add him to the current side and he's just another Baker/Graham. Which is why the Chad Warner decision was big. Add him next year (or in two years) and he moves the needle a bit.

Port are currently playing like busteds but their future hinges on Rozee, Butters and Horne-Francis. If you have that then a Drew or 30 year old Wines can be your 4th best mid. And if you can find someone as good then you are off to the races.

Without wanting to set an unrealistic benchmark we have one potential Judd/Cousins/Kerr (i.e. clear top 3 mid, not necessarily Brownlow AA HOF club GOAT...) in Harley Reid, and one player of that calibre who is 31 and injured in Yeo. Jury is out on whether any of the other guys have that kind of ceiling, and if not what their ceilings are. I really hope Hewett and Hough get there but too early to tell. If you take the current crop then add to it at the top it's a lot different to adding another player com

2006 side:

Foll: Cox, Judd, Kerr
C: Embley Cousins Braun

Foll: Seaby, RoJo, Stenglein
C: Fletcher, Selwood, Butler

2018 side inc. GF absentees (A bit less midfield heavy so had to put someone on the wings):

Foll: Naitanui, Yeo, Shuey
C: Gaff Redden Sheed

Foll: Lycett, Hutchings, Masten
C: Jetta Venables LeCras

The 2026, 2027 side is hard to project at this point.
 
I like what Richmond did in theory last draft but they definitely took some risks
Hotton was coming back from a knee so is a but of an unknown and they took sims who by most accounts wasn't the most highly rated tall available ( think it was Shanahan)
We'll get our chance this draft to use the system to our advantage if oscar leaves and who know, we might package picks to move up the ladder or split for more
 
have too agree, trading players in the MSD can get stuffed, no benefit for anyone outside Vic and there are plenty of places to draft/trade players now.

I think the majority of trades are going to be between Melbourne clubs cause there are just more of them but it's not like it could never work out for us. We would be well placed for something like 6 months of Nat Fyfe if he can't crack the Freo side and doesn't want to move from Melbourne, of we could of swooped on that ruck that went to Gold Coast. Us and Freo can do deals Melbourne clubs can't. Same Port and Adelaide or Brisbane and Suns. Also WA born talent coming home mid season isn't necessarily going to be too hard. If it's an option this year and Gov goes out of the side and a WA boy like Jed Busslinger can't crack a game with the Dogs then I'm sure we could get a trade like that done mid season. And as evidenced by our just picking up two in the mid season draft the club has housing that it can put players into, if its the difference between getting games at AFL level and doing whats best for your career then I don't think the mid season move is that big of a deal.

The thing I'd potentially like to see though and what would likely help clubs more than full blown trades is player loans. If a contending club loses 3 ruckman [lets just pretend Essendon were a chance at making finals] then for us to be able to send them Harry Barnett for 6 months [lets just pretend he could be an AFL ruckman] is potentially a win win, we get development at AFL level for a player who is potentially too far back in our system to get an AFL game, and the other club potentially recovers a season that would be ****ed by injury. Would have been great for us in 2023. Could also be something that could of worked with JUH this season, got years left on his contract at the Dogs but not doing him any good being around his mates in Melbourne, loan him to Sydney or Brisbane for 6 months see what the change of environment does. It would need some limits around it to stop say a Brisbane just offering to buy itself a premiership full forward from a club thats going to finish out of the 8 I guess, but mid season trades also have the potential to compromise things in the same way.

It's worth opening the can of worms and seeing what happens though I reckon, the season is very long and too many clubs get hit by injury and can be basically cooked before the half way point, having access to more players though more paths lifts the standard of games at least.
 

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I think the majority of trades are going to be between Melbourne clubs cause there are just more of them but it's not like it could never work out for us. We would be well placed for something like 6 months of Nat Fyfe if he can't crack the Freo side and doesn't want to move from Melbourne, of we could of swooped on that ruck that went to Gold Coast. Us and Freo can do deals Melbourne clubs can't. Same Port and Adelaide or Brisbane and Suns. Also WA born talent coming home mid season isn't necessarily going to be too hard. If it's an option this year and Gov goes out of the side and a WA boy like Jed Busslinger can't crack a game with the Dogs then I'm sure we could get a trade like that done mid season. And as evidenced by our just picking up two in the mid season draft the club has housing that it can put players into, if its the difference between getting games at AFL level and doing whats best for your career then I don't think the mid season move is that big of a deal.

The thing I'd potentially like to see though and what would likely help clubs more than full blown trades is player loans. If a contending club loses 3 ruckman [lets just pretend Essendon were a chance at making finals] then for us to be able to send them Harry Barnett for 6 months [lets just pretend he could be an AFL ruckman] is potentially a win win, we get development at AFL level for a player who is potentially too far back in our system to get an AFL game, and the other club potentially recovers a season that would be ****ed by injury. Would have been great for us in 2023. Could also be something that could of worked with JUH this season, got years left on his contract at the Dogs but not doing him any good being around his mates in Melbourne, loan him to Sydney or Brisbane for 6 months see what the change of environment does. It would need some limits around it to stop say a Brisbane just offering to buy itself a premiership full forward from a club thats going to finish out of the 8 I guess, but mid season trades also have the potential to compromise things in the same way.

It's worth opening the can of worms and seeing what happens though I reckon, the season is very long and too many clubs get hit by injury and can be basically cooked before the half way point, having access to more players though more paths lifts the standard of games at least.

Lots of really interesting thoughts here. I like it
 
I just flicked through the last two pages and all I got from it was we paid way overs for Tim Kelly.
 
I like what Richmond did in theory last draft but they definitely took some risks
Hotton was coming back from a knee so is a but of an unknown and they took sims who by most accounts wasn't the most highly rated tall available ( think it was Shanahan)
We'll get our chance this draft to use the system to our advantage if oscar leaves and who know, we might package picks to move up the ladder or split for more
Did they do it, or was it done to them? Seems like most of the senior players were pretty keen to leave.
I don't think it's typically a great strategy to cut most of your best players for speculative draft picks.

There's been some exposure of their picks since the draft but, if they're lucky, at least half will be genuine contributors as part of their rebuild. Best case scenario they eclipse the players they replaced on the list, although I think that's unlikely.

As you said, they took some risks, more so in the players they selected.
Players such as Hotton and Trainor had question marks on fitness and longevity.
Faull IMO was a big stretch at where they picked him and Sims is raw and could be something, but we know as well as other teams, that ruckmen hybrids are difficult to develop.

I could see the 2024 draft being very serviceable for Richmond without being instrumental in a rebuld.
Thankfully for them, they have a couple of high picks this season as well, however, I'm not sure it's the best path to rebuild by. I guess we'll have an idea of the success of the 2024 machinations in about three years.

None of the above should be construed as an assessment of Richmond v West Coast rebuild timeframe. Just my thoughts on Richmond's 2024 trade/draft strategy generally.
 

With Pick 1 West Coast take Willem Duursma.

West Coast young gun Harley Reid says he’s warming to Perth amid speculation the 2023 No.1 draft pick could move back to Victoria as soon as this year. However, speaking on the Eagles’ Coast-to-Coast podcast, Reid said he has been “loving” Perth in his second season.

“I’ve been loving Perth, actually,” he said. “This year has been great. I’m in a house now on my own with my puppy and just loving it over here.

In another positive sign for fans, Reid said he was excited at the prospect of potentially playing alongside Willem Duursma next season - the younger brother of Xavier, Zane and Yasmin, who is dating Reid. “It would be nice. It would be very nice (to play with Willem),” Reid said. “I haven’t seen a lot of him, but from what I’ve seen, he’s pretty good. And he’s tall.
“I reckon he’s the best (of the Duursma brothers). That would be pretty cool if he goes pick one.”
 

With Pick 1 West Coast take Willem Duursma.
Manager “It’s Perth or the Tigers Harley.”

Harley “Um Er……..Can you leak to The Worst that Perth is pretty cool and I’d like to play with Will”.
 
Did they do it, or was it done to them? Seems like most of the senior players were pretty keen to leave.
I don't think it's typically a great strategy to cut most of your best players for speculative draft picks.

There's been some exposure of their picks since the draft but, if they're lucky, at least half will be genuine contributors as part of their rebuild. Best case scenario they eclipse the players they replaced on the list, although I think that's unlikely.

As you said, they took some risks, more so in the players they selected.
Players such as Hotton and Trainor had question marks on fitness and longevity.
Faull IMO was a big stretch at where they picked him and Sims is raw and could be something, but we know as well as other teams, that ruckmen hybrids are difficult to develop.

I could see the 2024 draft being very serviceable for Richmond without being instrumental in a rebuld.
Thankfully for them, they have a couple of high picks this season as well, however, I'm not sure it's the best path to rebuild by. I guess we'll have an idea of the success of the 2024 machinations in about three years.

None of the above should be construed as an assessment of Richmond v West Coast rebuild timeframe. Just my thoughts on Richmond's 2024 trade/draft strategy generally.

One of the bigger myths in football is that Richmond planned to turbo charge a rebuild via the 2024 draft

Injuries, particularly early, derailed their season handing them a wooden spoon that was unexpected before 2024 began - some preseason predictions had them as a sneaky finals chance

They then had the “good” fortune of three players with genuine currency request trades at season’s end - two of which were still on long term contracts. Furthermore, those players requested trades to clubs who all had valuable trade capital and the willingness to use it which netted them 4x R1 picks and an early R2 pick

Fair play to them for recognising the opportunity that circumstances had presented them with and taking advantage of it by stockpiling early draft picks in what was an unusually deep and even draft.

But it was hardly the culmination of some grand master plan as some would have us believe
 
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