List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

Current contract status (Updated 31/10/25) : Total 38 Players - Main List (33) Rookie List (4) Cat B (1) Contracted to 2029 (4) : Jake Waterman (6/5/98) - Signed a 4 year extension (2026-29) on an existing contract due to expire 2025 in October 2024 Liam Baker (27/1/98) - Signed a 5 year...

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[briztoon]

I said it last year and I'll say it again, There outside of Daicos and Horne-Francis a lot more of that higher end talent in this pool than last year but I don't see the draft running as deep. Past pick 20 there are going to be major deficiencies in players drafted imo.

There’s a lot of good stuff in your post, but I don’t agree with this bit.

We don’t know how strong this year’s draft crop will be compared to last year’s just yet.

But I really disagree with this years talent, being stronger than last year’s talent.

We got to see last year’s draftees at U16 level, where VIC Metro ran the table, and the VIC Metro crop was very strong.

We didn’t see much of them for the next two years after that. But we did see some of SA and WA kids move up as they played full seasons.

I 100% agree that this year’s talls are better than last years talls, and that adds an extra dimension to top end and first round of this year’s draft.

But from what we’ve seen from this years crop so far, I’d have Rachelle, Hobbs, Sinn and Chesser, ahead of the smaller players being spoken about in the 6 to 10 range of this year’s draft.

Hewett’s perfomances at WAFL level haven’t been any better than Matthew Roberts or Arlo Draper’s were at SANFL level last year. And those two were initially talked up as first round draftees, before sliding to the third round.

Yes we’ll have a better idea after the U18 Championships, but at this stage I’d have Rachelle, Hobbs, Sinn and Chesser all ahead of Hewett and Sheezel, purely based on their U16 year (but Sheezel is certainly at the same level as those four Vic boys on current performances).

 

[briztoon]

who is the other one?

Jaspa Fletcher.

 

[briztoon]

Yeah, well we've got this gun kid in our NGA and probably haven't even lodged the paperwork to get him!


View attachment 1397695

Yeah, but we’ve got access to ours no matter where they’re bid on.

 

[briztoon]

Choosing between Tsatas and Wardlaw would be really tough.

Tsatas =/= Chesser.

 

[briztoon]

Florenca is a Covid top up player and as such is listed on our web site as is Ainsworth, Giro, etc. He can only play when we are impacted by injury and covid protocols. He will not stay on the list unless we wanted to draft him more permanently in the mid season draft

So the question is, are any other teams likely to draft Florenca in the mid season draft?

If not, I don’t see the point of drafting him mid season, unless you want to commit to him long term (i.e beyond an 18 month contract).

You have him on your covid top up list all year.

 

[briztoon]

Hope he has a different ranking.

To much “group think”on the main stream talent assessment boards.

Also way to early to have the top order fully assessed.
Kids grow, kids develop and kids we haven’t seen year due to school football.
Additionally some bolters will emerge this year because due to Covid we have neither heard of them or seen them yet.

After the championships some sort of pecking order will emerge.
Until then, you may just as well be throwing darts at the board.

Beyond the very top 3 to 5 players, I believe there’s a fair bit of variance of rankings amongst the draft watchers.

The big thing this year is that fewer of the draft watchers are putting up rankings at the moment. It’s more through their public discussions that you “see” the difference in rankings.

 

[JoshWoodenSpoon]

The A5 = avishka

 

[Chad in Vegas]

I quickly pulled a few of Jai Culleys highlights for you all.
Number 17 on red team, these are only ones I had time to find, there were many many more...

 

[Chump Change]

Ummm, Hipwood and Ah Chee are 25, McCluggage and Berry 24, Rayner, Bailey and Starcevich 23, Answerth and Coleman 22, Robertson and Prior are 21.

Then we still have a few 2020 and 2021 draftees that performing well at VFL level, developing nicely.

We’ll potentially add two father sons this year, one very highly rated, the other is regarded as a top 25, borderline first round talent.

Then there’s young Levi Ashcroft coming through in the 2024 draft. He’s more inside bull than his brother. Video on second page of the Instagram link.

Best chance for the Ashcroft brothers to play together is to both nominate Brisbane.

And we’ve got two 16 year old academy key forwards already playing QAFL footy for the 2024 draft as well.

I believe we’ll be right for a while.

Not how it works mate. You've got a flag window for 2-3 years.

Last time your flag window finish at the end of 2004. Took you 16 years to get back there.

Swans won the 2012 flag without bottoming out but no one else has done it. If the Cats win this year, count them too. But it's rare as hens teeth.

So, let me repeat: your window will be open for another couple of years and if Ashcroft doesn't get a flag in that period, the percentages say it's very unlikely he will win one. I'm not interested in your rose coloured glasses.

 

[ArdentEagle]

Jed Busslinger really sounds like someone our recruiters would go for.
He certainly sounds like a talent but if our first picked is an intercept defender, I'll ****ing lose my shit completely.

 

[ArdentEagle]

hey briztoon
If West Coast hold pick 1, I am sure there can be a suitable price negotiated for the sale of the Lion's round 1 pick that includes a discount for agreeing not to call out Ashcroft at pick 1. There is nearly a 400 points differential between being called out at 1 (20% discount in 2,400) v 2 (20% discount in 2,014).

Assuming Lions make minimum Preliminary Final, you will have pick 15 (points equivalent of 1,112)

Our current picks are 1, 19, 26 and 37. Pick 26 is worth 729 points and 37 is worth 483 for a total of 1,212. Add in the saving of not bidding at Pick 1 or 386, we could do a suitable deal. We or you could happily get a points premium with pick 26 and to a lesser extent with 37. I am sure the Suns, Pies or Cats sitting with loads of picks in the 40's and 50's would be willing buyers of an upgrade to 26.

Fair and legal? I think so. Is it what the AFL intended. I don't care. You know from how we went with Sydney and hid their pick, we can be trusted at the draft table.

 

[briztoon]

Maybe but other opinions also prompt you to look closer than you previously had and review want you may have missed.


That said the majority of the group think emanates out of Victoria, where the guys , not only swap notes, but also meet up regularly at VIC games and there vision of interstate games is mostly on TV.
As I am sure you appreciate, you can only garner a certain amount, with out watching kids live and see what they do off the ball and better assess their running patterns.

By way of example- I for one appreciate Knightmares work because he calls it as he sees it and whilst I don’t always agree with his rankings, I do appreciate the reasoning that he gives behind his ratings and rankings.

If you know some of the coaches at Club level and school level, you also get input into what Club Recruiters are asking and saying about players.
From my experience working in the system, when talking with the AFL Club recruiters they tend to ask you a lot of questions about the oppositions that you coach against.
They ask more personality / temperament coach ability type question about the kids you coach.
You would be very surprised by some of the questions that recruiters ask you about certain players.
Coaches generally have a good idea who are on recruiters radars.

Having worked in the VIC system, I know just how incestuous it is.

Group thinks boards always change dramatically after they get the list of Combine Invitees.
Because, by virtue of the fact, that in order to get an invite you need to be nominated by a certain amount of Clubs, who’s intel is far more expansive, than just football teams that play predominantly in a district that has a post code that starts with a 3 .

There are several really insightful SA talent assessor’s on BF and I rate and rank their work as top quality and far more expansive than the main stream Victorian group think.

The draft guru Cal, is not particularly good himself at talent identification, however he excels at being well connected with those that are and the Club recruiters, consequently his intel is general on the money.
He also has insider information as to who has or has not been invited to the Draft Night, much earlier than the masses.
Funny about that how the AFL always seem to have the top 10 draftees there for the group picture every draft night…. Who would have thought that, what are the chances

It’s all part on the jig saw puzzle of recruiting.

Case in point , in the lead up to the 2016 draft. Up until about a month before the draft Tim Toronto and Oliver Florant we’re seen by the group think as mid to late second rounders , Oliver was actually seen by most as a third rounder.
It wasn’t till the info got out as to how many Clubs had wanted them both at the Draft Camp ( as it was called then ) , that the group think started placing them higher on their draft boards.

So whilst your initial comment about group think being more reliable, has some merit diversity of opinions in talent ranking is also valuable.

Twomey had Taranto at ~21 and Florent at ~23 for most of his monthly rankings up until the TAC final. Then started steadily moving them up.

I never understood why they weren’t rated higher.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Fair and legal? I think so. Is it what the AFL intended. I don't care. You know from how we went with Sydney and hid their pick, we can be trusted at the draft table.

Weren’t Melbourne and GWS rumoured to have done a deal like this over Viney? System was different back then, but the Giants not bidding on Viney with pick 1 or 2 (possibly in return for the Dees overpaying massively for pick 1 in the underage mini draft that became Hogan) meant that they didn’t have to use pick 3 on him.

 

[RanaNaved]

Maybe but other opinions also prompt you to look closer than you previously had and review want you may have missed.


That said the majority of the group think emanates out of Victoria, where the guys , not only swap notes, but also meet up regularly at VIC games and there vision of interstate games is mostly on TV.
As I am sure you appreciate, you can only garner a certain amount, with out watching kids live and see what they do off the ball and better assess their running patterns.

By way of example- I for one appreciate Knightmares work because he calls it as he sees it and whilst I don’t always agree with his rankings, I do appreciate the reasoning that he gives behind his ratings and rankings.

If you know some of the coaches at Club level and school level, you also get input into what Club Recruiters are asking and saying about players.
From my experience working in the system, when talking with the AFL Club recruiters they tend to ask you a lot of questions about the oppositions that you coach against.
They ask more personality / temperament coach ability type question about the kids you coach.
You would be very surprised by some of the questions that recruiters ask you about certain players.
Coaches generally have a good idea who are on recruiters radars.

Having worked in the VIC system, I know just how incestuous it is.

Group thinks boards always change dramatically after they get the list of Combine Invitees.
Because, by virtue of the fact, that in order to get an invite you need to be nominated by a certain amount of Clubs, who’s intel is far more expansive, than just football teams that play predominantly in a district that has a post code that starts with a 3 .

There are several really insightful SA talent assessor’s on BF and I rate and rank their work as top quality and far more expansive than the main stream Victorian group think.

The draft guru Cal, is not particularly good himself at talent identification, however he excels at being well connected with those that are and the Club recruiters, consequently his intel is general on the money.
He also has insider information as to who has or has not been invited to the Draft Night, much earlier than the masses.
Funny about that how the AFL always seem to have the top 10 draftees there for the group picture every draft night…. Who would have thought that, what are the chances

It’s all part on the jig saw puzzle of recruiting.

Case in point , in the lead up to the 2016 draft. Up until about a month before the draft Tim Toronto and Oliver Florant we’re seen by the group think as mid to late second rounders , Oliver was actually seen by most as a third rounder.
It wasn’t till the info got out as to how many Clubs had wanted them both at the Draft Camp ( as it was called then ) , that the group think started placing them higher on their draft boards.

So whilst your initial comment about group think being more reliable, has some merit diversity of opinions in talent ranking is also valuable.

It was just a casual remark with little thought behind it tbh.

In saying that, I'm still mentally scarred by 'Knightmare' rating Jack Avery as the 7th (iirc) best prospect in last year's draft.

 

[briztoon]

Not how it works mate. You've got a flag window for 2-3 years.

Last time your flag window finish at the end of 2004. Took you 16 years to get back there.

Swans won the 2012 flag without bottoming out but no one else has done it. If the Cats win this year, count them too. But it's rare as hens teeth.

So, let me repeat: your window will be open for another couple of years and if Ashcroft doesn't get a flag in that period, the percentages say it's very unlikely he will win one. I'm not interested in your rose coloured glasses.

We had very poor management for a long time after 2004. That certainly contributed to us being poor for a long time. Poor player culture and players wanting to leave, and us getting unders for them.

It’s funny how fast we turned things around when Noble and Fagan arrived after the end of the 2016 season.

Get things right off the field, develop the proper culture on field, draft and trade in the right players, and it can be a quick process.

I have long argued on our board that acquiring Neale and Lyons vastly accelerated our rebuild and window of opportunity, at the expense of adding more top youth and young depth.

I have said our current window probably closes after next season. But I don’t expect us to drop out of the top 8. If both Ashcroft boys and Fletcher come to us, I expect us to challenge again in about 4 years, when McCluggage and Berry are 28, and Rayner, Bailey and Starcevich are 27.

We drafted well last year, and still have a lot of young talent on our list. The key will be drafting some good KPP talent next year, to succeed Daniher and Andrews in the future.

 

[Chump Change]

We had very poor management for a long time after 2004. That certainly contributed to us being poor for a long time. Poor player culture and players wanting to leave, and us getting unders for them.

It’s funny how fast we turned things around when Noble and Fagan arrived after the end of the 2016 season.

Get things right off the field, develop the proper culture on field, draft and trade in the right players, and it can be a quick process.

I have long argued on our board that acquiring Neale and Lyons vastly accelerated our rebuild and window of opportunity, at the expense of adding more top youth and young depth.

I have said our current window probably closes after next season. But I don’t expect us to drop out of the top 8. If both Ashcroft boys and Fletcher come to us, I expect us to challenge again in about 4 years, when McCluggage and Berry are 28, and Rayner, Bailey and Starcevich are 27.

We drafted well last year, and still have a lot of young talent on our list. The key will be drafting some good KPP talent next year, to succeed Daniher and Andrews in the future.

I think you have a little bit longer in the window. At the moment I think you're the only team who can challenge Melbourne but the big If is: are Melbourne going to be unbeatable for a few years and can Brisbane snag a flag before Freo and Carlton hit their windows?

You'll be in the 8 for a while but it's no consolation if you don't go all the way.

 

[ArdentEagle]

It was just a casual remark with little thought behind it tbh.

In saying that, I'm still mentally scarred by 'Knightmare' rating Jack Avery as the 7th (iirc) best prospect in last year's draft.

If our team had even just 50% of the determination KM does, we'd be winning games.

Not always right but I admire his perseverance and faith in his abilities.
I've seen what seem like a whole board question his statements over and over, he keeps backing up and going in for more.

 

[RanaNaved]

Yeah, well we've got this gun kid in our NGA and probably haven't even lodged the paperwork to get him!


View attachment 1397695

I know you're taking the piss, but WC really do have some exciting NGA players next year and the year after. Four are in the WA under 16s team, and yes they're all signed.

Question is what will the NGA look like in 2-3 years...

 

[RanaNaved]

If our team had even just 50% of the determination KM does, we'd be winning games.

Not always right but I admire his perseverance and faith in his abilities.
I've seen what seem like a whole board question his statements over and over, he keeps backing up and going in for more.

If you put Avery at 7 you can't call yourself an expert.....imo.

 

[briztoon]

I think you have a little bit longer in the window. At the moment I think you're the only team who can challenge Melbourne but the big If is: are Melbourne going to be unbeatable for a few years and can Brisbane snag a flag before Freo and Carlton hit their windows?

You'll be in the 8 for a while but it's no consolation if you don't go all the way.

I’ve said the exact same thing on our board, but included GC with Freo and Carlton.

 

[Monocle]

It was just a casual remark with little thought behind it tbh.

In saying that, I'm still mentally scarred by 'Knightmare' rating Jack Avery as the 7th (iirc) best prospect in last year's draft.

All good I wasn't having a go at you Mate.

Yes Avery is an interesting one IMO he should never have left Claremont to go to Perth ( Sorry Carbine Chaos ... but everyone that goes to Perth has turned to shit for the last 20 years ), Avery regressed badly at Perth last year.
I watched a lot of him over a two year period at Claremont and Perth.

I had a late third early fourth grade on him in 2020, I thought he was very "draftable" then last year 2021, his decision making and foot skills seem to go to shit and he dropped in my grading, to the rookie at best if lucky category in my assessments of him.
Add that to the fact that I thought the exhibition games he played in last year against SA, he was poor.
All the good traits to his game seemed to have evaporate over a twelve month period, like I said he should have never left Claremont for the promise of playing league at Perth, something that Claremont were not prepared to commit to.
Maybe he way ahead of himself !?!?... it can happen with young egos.

 

[eagles rule]

There’s a lot of good stuff in your post, but I don’t agree with this bit.

We don’t know how strong this year’s draft crop will be compared to last year’s just yet.

But I really disagree with this years talent, being stronger than last year’s talent.

We got to see last year’s draftees at U16 level, where VIC Metro ran the table, and the VIC Metro crop was very strong.

We didn’t see much of them for the next two years after that. But we did see some of SA and WA kids move up as they played full seasons.

I 100% agree that this year’s talls are better than last years talls, and that adds an extra dimension to top end and first round of this year’s draft.

But from what we’ve seen from this years crop so far, I’d have Rachelle, Hobbs, Sinn and Chesser, ahead of the smaller players being spoken about in the 6 to 10 range of this year’s draft.

Hewett’s perfomances at WAFL level haven’t been any better than Matthew Roberts or Arlo Draper’s were at SANFL level last year. And those two were initially talked up as first round draftees, before sliding to the third round.

Yes we’ll have a better idea after the U18 Championships, but at this stage I’d have Rachelle, Hobbs, Sinn and Chesser all ahead of Hewett and Sheezel, purely based on their U16 year (but Sheezel is certainly at the same level as those four Vic boys on current performances).

What do you like about Chesser to have him rated so high ?

 

[briztoon]

If our team had even just 50% of the determination KM does, we'd be winning games.

Not always right but I admire his perseverance and faith in his abilities.
I've seen what seem like a whole board question his statements over and over, he keeps backing up and going in for more.

Whenever the “heard” have called Knightmare out, it’s because he’s been caught out, usually for not actually watching a player/players he’s talking about. Or for claiming his “record” for talent identification is better than any and every club recruiter. Except he’s actually never ever drafted a kid.

I’ll mention something one of our club recruiters said at last years draft function.

If a club drafted “best available talent” at each of their picks all the time, odds are that your list would be top heavy for midfielders and light on for KPP’s and flankers. Much like GWS is finding out with their list now.

(Tangent coming…)

Even in the first round, and even in the top 10, clubs will draft for need over talent, beyond a certain point.

St Kilda did it when they drafted McCartin instead of Petracca. We did it when we drafted Schache instead of Oliver. Richmond did it when they drafted Gibcus instead of Hobbs. North did it when they drafted Phillips instead of McDonald (well that was a head scratcher, because North arguably needed a KPF more).

The “trick” is getting the timing of it right.

West Coast did it when they traded back for Chesser, instead of picking Sinn or Hobbs.

At least West Coast traded back, and gained an extra asset, instead of just drafting Chesser ahead of Sinn and Hobbs.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Clearly this Cully kid needs to be drafted by us if we finish last. No point in going the mature age pick with pick 1 in the mid season draft . We need an eye to the future and if we have a 2nd pick then maybe florenca.

Cully has the same athletic attributes as yeo

Getting a head start on a rebuild is what needs to be done .

We also need to target young out of contract mids like roberton and bruhn.

Pick 37 for roberton and future 3rd for bruhn . PSD threat is real .

Hopefully guys like English and Jackson can sign up until their free agents and we can get them for cash no picks in a couple of years .

Silly to sell the farm for them now

 

[briztoon]

What do you like about Chesser to have him rated so high ?

Probably the same things that saw him rated so high as a 16 year old by club recruiters.

Good size, speed, skills, he’s not adverse to contact. Similar to Sinn, the kid has a broad build, so will be a decent size when he fills out. He’s not an inside mid though, that ex Collingwood recruiter, Rendell described him as in his U16 notes.

You hope he develops similar McCluggage (not skills or playing style, just progression). Starts on the wing and builds his tank and body, and moves inside as a balanced mid after a few years.

I believe Sinn and Chesser’s draft positions were affected by their injuries and Covid interruptions in their draft year, from not being able to show if they could play inside mid, or not, over the course of a full season.