List Mgmt. Contracts. Trades. Draft. Other Assorted Crap. 2020 Edition

[ghostbat12]

Let's not forget Worpel and Jack Graham.

I also think there were plenty in last years draft but we opted not to trade up: Rivers, Ruscoe, Warner, Garcia, Perez, Rantall, Bianco, Ramsay, Byrnes, Butler, Prior and Taheny all went past pick 30. Add to that Sharp, Schoenberg, Robertson, Mead and Finn Magginnes all went in the 20's.
We got one of the best in that list in my opinion in Mitch O'Neill though!

Apart from worpel, which of those are “great”? A player that all clubs passed on what, twice?

Not sure what your point was about listing lots of players who haven’t done anything. Is that meant to prove something?

 

[ghostbat12]

You are the one who is saying its " late picks " and thats where I differ as I don't consider a second rounder a late pick.

I doubt people consider 36 as an early pick.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Apart from worpel, which of those are “great”? A player that all clubs passed on what, twice?

Not sure what your point was about listing lots of players who haven’t done anything. Is that meant to prove something?

Most of those guys are flankers or will wind up as flankers at AFL level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ziad]

Apart from worpel, which of those are “great”? A player that all clubs passed on what, twice?

Not sure what your point was about listing lots of players who haven’t done anything. Is that meant to prove something?

There is a strong case that Worpels star is fading rapidly. Surely a B- at best

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Apart from worpel, which of those are “great”? A player that all clubs passed on what, twice?

Not sure what your point was about listing lots of players who haven’t done anything. Is that meant to prove something?

Bit defensive, but ok.
Plenty of good mids in that list, and the point of the list was to show plenty of good midfield options later in the draft. The issue isn't with our current playing midfielders, we almost have too many in their prime right now. Issue was our young developing mids, we don't have a heap.

The point of my list from last year, was to show that there were heaps of midfield options later in last years draft. But I thought that was obvious...

 

[BOND 007]

Bit defensive, but ok.
Plenty of good mids in that list, and the point of the list was to show plenty of good midfield options later in the draft. The issue isn't with our current playing midfielders, we almost have too many in their prime right now. Issue was our young developing mids, we don't have a heap.

The point of my list from last year, was to show that there were heaps of midfield options later in last years draft. But I thought that was obvious...

While it’s true most of the gun mids are first rounders, here’s a quick list of some of the higher ball winners from this weekend:

Phillips (58)
Menegola (66)
Merrett (26)
Neale (58)
Zorko (Rookie?)
Lyons (61)
Parker (40)
Greenwood (Rookie)
Miller (29)
Dumont (30)
Lambert (Rookie)
C Taylor (46)
Bolton (29)
Curnow (Rookie)
Henderson (Rookie)
Walters (53)
Bewley (59)

Obviously there have been lots more misses in the time these guys were drafted, but this assumption that you can’t draft mids after the first round is silly

If you are making the point that good mids can be drafted through the middle rounds you are correct - there are plenty of examples of this.
If you are suggesting that WC have 'missed in their drafting you are also correct.

However to sit there and name the list of players you have and label them as you have 'midfield players WC have missed is disingenuous.
1) some of them are patently not midfielders or if are - certainly not ones whose quality/ability is worth mentioning.
2) you fail to bring the whole story to the table. Parker in 2010 was highly regarded but WC felt Gaff, Darling & Lycett were better options. Would you now choose Parker ahead of any of those 3? If yes - then I disagree, if no then why bring that up as a miss?
In hindsight would WC have preferred Neale over Newman sure. I'd also like my time again in choosing Smith & Jones over Walters but that's life.
But to list a whole lot of players & suggest WC missed them is just silly & erroneous.

 

[squashface]

If you are making the point that good mids can be drafted through the middle rounds you are correct - there are plenty of examples of this.
If you are suggesting that WC have 'missed in their drafting you are also correct.

However to sit there and name the list of players you have and label them as you have 'midfield players WC have missed is disingenuous.
1) some of them are patently not midfielders or if are - certainly not ones whose quality/ability is worth mentioning.
2) you fail to bring the whole story to the table. Parker in 2010 was highly regarded but WC felt Gaff, Darling & Lycett were better options. Would you now choose Parker ahead of any of those 3? If yes - then I disagree, if no then why bring that up as a miss?
In hindsight would WC have preferred Neale over Newman sure. I'd also like my time again in choosing Smith & Jones over Walters but that's life.
But to list a whole lot of players & suggest WC missed them is just silly & erroneous.

This.

Happens at every single club. I'm sure clubs like Fremantle who have struggled with KPP talent over the past few years wish that they drafted guys like Barrass, McGovern and Darling. It's cliche but drafting is the very definition of you win some you lose some.

 

[ghostbat12]

Bit defensive, but ok.
Plenty of good mids in that list, and the point of the list was to show plenty of good midfield options later in the draft. The issue isn't with our current playing midfielders, we almost have too many in their prime right now. Issue was our young developing mids, we don't have a heap.

The point of my list from last year, was to show that there were heaps of midfield options later in last years draft. But I thought that was obvious...

It’s not defensive mate. A dozen players over 10 years from pick 20 onwards is about dozen players over 600 players drafted.

In fact take it from any position in draft. It’s still a small number over 100s of players drafted, which shows it’s really luck more than anything.

Best late draft value is is for key defenders, rucks and small forwards. And there is a plethora of those.

Finding a really good mid? More luck than anything because as we are told by ITKs, an accumulator in juniors will translate to accumulator in afl. So if a mid slides ALOT, it either means that a) they haven’t shown anything but with a bit of application, they may get there or b) too slow or small and having an impact is very questionable. There are no great obvious mids that slide late.

 

[FKASC]

If you are making the point that good mids can be drafted through the middle rounds you are correct - there are plenty of examples of this.
If you are suggesting that WC have 'missed in their drafting you are also correct.

However to sit there and name the list of players you have and label them as you have 'midfield players WC have missed is disingenuous.
1) some of them are patently not midfielders or if are - certainly not ones whose quality/ability is worth mentioning.
2) you fail to bring the whole story to the table. Parker in 2010 was highly regarded but WC felt Gaff, Darling & Lycett were better options. Would you now choose Parker ahead of any of those 3? If yes - then I disagree, if no then why bring that up as a miss?
In hindsight would WC have preferred Neale over Newman sure. I'd also like my time again in choosing Smith & Jones over Walters but that's life.
But to list a whole lot of players & suggest WC missed them is just silly & erroneous.

Didn’t provide the list to suggest WC missed them. Simply pointed out that many of the better performing mids this weekend were taken outside of the first round.

You can go through drafts retrospectively and look at who we took, but that doesn’t disprove the point that it’s not just about what picks you have.

Apart from worpel, which of those are “great”? A player that all clubs passed on what, twice?

So if a team passes over a midfielder twice they must be shit?

Come on mate, most of those it’s hard to get overly excited over. And some others are priddis clones.

I mean you have curnow on there. And Bolton a midfielder,? Really? Taylor a midfielder?

Which of those would displace our midfielders? Half of those, like Lyons, can’t play in other positions. Menegola has issues at multiple clubs and you want to use that as an example? In fact, he proves what I said, that it’s really luck and depends on how hard player is willing to work, not recruiting skill.

Merrett, Neale, Zorko, Parker, Lambert are only ones to get excited over.

That is it. Thanks for proving my point.

Who said anything about “displacing our midfielders”? Fact is we have five midfielders as depth, and only three on the main list.

We’re extremely lucky to have durable mids because two long term injuries to on ballers and you’d almost write the season off.

The guys I listed were just those who’d done well this weekend, and any of them would place our squad in a stronger position - you haven’t proven anything.

edit - Also Bolton is no less a mid than Ah Chee is a forward. Plays mid at VFL level and contested most centre bounces against North. 3 centre clearances, 10 CP.

Taylor I thought I saw in the middle on Thursday night but I probably had him mixed up with Hall

 

[FKASC]

It’s not defensive mate. A dozen players over 10 years from pick 20 onwards is about dozen players over 600 players drafted.

In fact take it from any position in draft. It’s still a small number over 100s of players drafted, which shows it’s really luck more than anything.

Best late draft value is is for key defenders, rucks and small forwards. And there is a plethora of those.

Finding a really good mid? More luck than anything because as we are told by ITKs, an accumulator in juniors will translate to accumulator in afl. So if a mid slides ALOT, it either means that a) they haven’t shown anything but with a bit of application, they may get there or b) too slow or small and having an impact is very questionable. There are no great obvious mids that slide late.

What’s your proposed solution?

Keep on trading out first rounders to get guys like Kelly?

Or keep on drafting key defenders, rucks and small forwards and trying to turn them into midfielders?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

This.

Happens at every single club. I'm sure clubs like Fremantle who have struggled with KPP talent over the past few years wish that they drafted guys like Barrass, McGovern and Darling. It's cliche but drafting is the very definition of you win some you lose some.

I have it on good authority that at least a couple of influential club figures told Freo they ought to draft J McGovern, but they didn’t heed the advice.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Players like Bolton and Walters both got drafted firstly as small forwards. If they wound up in our list would we be trying to turn these small forwards into midfielders and would you be critical? Probably.

People concerned about our list balance should remember we’ve got mature KPPs who won’t be around after the next few years (Kennedy, Schofield, Hickey, Naitanui shortly after) and having those young talls on your list before you have the young depth of smalls can help you shoot back into contention sooner than the alternative.

 

[Mattman93]

I'd also like my time again in choosing Smith & Jones over Walters but that's life.

Hmmmm.

 

[DanWCE]

Hmmmm.

Is this a mystery to you?

 

[Obeanie1]

Looks like North will head down the full rebuild.

Wonder if we are interested in any of their players?

The one we may look at is Anderson. We almost traded him in from the Hawks but Norths cut our lunch with a better deal trade wise.

26 and a solid inside mid with a very good pressure game. Out of contract too.

A swap for Petrucelle?

I'd take that. Anderson could have been a premiership player if he had gone the other way. Will he be happy getting towelled up during a rebuild or want success?

26 is a similar age to Kelly.

 

[WCEforeverman]

Is this a mystery to you?

To me at least

 

[DanWCE]

To me at least

BOND 007 has long posted club insights into our drafting strategies/players etc. We haven't quite worked out who he is yet but there's a few jokes floating about come drafttime as to whether he and the other guys are getting stuck into the pies and sausage rolls they serve up on the tables when the club shares photos of our recruitment team.

 

[Cuzz09]

Looks like North will head down the full rebuild.

Wonder if we are interested in any of their players?

The one we may look at is Anderson. We almost traded him in from the Hawks but Norths cut our lunch with a better deal trade wise.

26 and a solid inside mid with a very good pressure game. Out of contract too.

A swap for Petrucelle?

I'd take that. Anderson could have been a premiership player if he had gone the other way. Will he be happy getting towelled up during a rebuild or want success?

26 is a similar age to Kelly.

Personally for the next couple of years Id be keen to draft some kids in.

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Obeanie1]

Personally for the next couple of years Id be keen to draft some kids in.

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

This years draft is highly compromised. We currently have two 3rd round picks. If a fringe player left and we somehow got say a 2nd round pick that pick will likely be pushed out to past pick 45.

So sure in 2021 we hit the draft but in 2020 we should be looking at how to build our midfield depth any means possible.

Wonder how O'Mera is feeling at the Hawks? Left Gold Coast to play finals, Suns are now rising fast and Hawthorn dropping away badly and look like they are staring down the barrel of a major rebuild. Can't see how we could get him but clubs staring at bottom four finishes for the next 2-3 years may well let decent players go to refresh faster. So that's North and the Hawks.

We currently have X O'Neil, M O'Neil, Ainsworth and Foley developing as likely mids. And yes we need to add to that but this years draft with our hand isn't the year we will gain much traction on this via the draft IMO.

 

[Cuzz09]

true. If we could get oMera then I'll allow it

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mattman93]

Is this a mystery to you?

Not exactly but I've never seen him put it explicitly. Also was never clear that he was actually involved in selections.

 

[DanWCE]

Not exactly but I've never seen him put it explicitly. Also was never clear that he was actually involved in selections.

Fair enough. Yeah I was wondering if it was a bit of a Freudian slip

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Kyron Hayden as an UFA this year. You’d assume north would be keen to hold on to him and he’d probably get more games there but could be worth a look.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Kyron Hayden as an UFA this year. You’d assume north would be keen to hold on to him and he’d probably get more games there but could be worth a look.

Kyron Hayden got absolutely polaxed by tom lynch in the norf/Richmond game.
Had to be stretched off

Reminded me of the venables hit . Hope he is ok .

He hasn't set the world on fire at north . Been a role player this year not racking up many possessions or tackles

Saying that he could be worth putting on the rookie list , he is in an age demographic mid we lack but may end up being a casualty of smaller list sizes if the afl go down that path .

 

[shooshka]

This years draft is highly compromised. We currently have two 3rd round picks. If a fringe player left and we somehow got say a 2nd round pick that pick will likely be pushed out to past pick 45.

So sure in 2021 we hit the draft but in 2020 we should be looking at how to build our midfield depth any means possible.

Wonder how O'Mera is feeling at the Hawks? Left Gold Coast to play finals, Suns are now rising fast and Hawthorn dropping away badly and look like they are staring down the barrel of a major rebuild. Can't see how we could get him but clubs staring at bottom four finishes for the next 2-3 years may well let decent players go to refresh faster. So that's North and the Hawks.

We currently have X O'Neil, M O'Neil, Ainsworth and Foley developing as likely mids. And yes we need to add to that but this years draft with our hand isn't the year we will gain much traction on this via the draft IMO.

I think (and not just because it is the rules) we should always try to bring in 3 draftees per season just to refresh the list a little (obviously if list sizes are changed that number may change). Taking kids at 65-70 is very hit and miss (luckily we've had a FS hit in that region recently), I'd prefer we draft a little earlier.

If we are going to go after players this year (and next) we need to target free agents. If we lose out because of $ (but push the price up for the alternate bidder) then so be it - but I think this is a better strategy than trying to trade further out of a draft (plus, this draft and the exposed form will be so compromised that there will be perceived bargains available into the 50's - of course as always that will take a couple of years to prove correct - or incorrect).