Mega Thread Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. Part 2 * CONTINUED ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED *

[Chief]

Australian Coronavirus Stats

Latest COVID-19 stats from Australia.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Carringbush2010]

Follow the trail of posts back to the one blaming China, the country that started this pandemic. There were also posts in this thread blaming the Chinese people en mass and calling them all dirty and unhygienic. Though I'm sure mods have rightly cleaned them up by now.

Haven't seen many, you're also conflating criticism of a nation's government as racist.

Just because someone states 'it started in china' does not mean that is racist, that is absurd. If that is racist then the human race may as well do away with criticism altogether.

Posters claiming chines people in general are dirty and unhygienic IS. Do not conflate the two. How about you put said criticisms into context, someone posting 'it's china's fault' does not mean that that someone is being a racist. They're probably being critical of the CCP - don't reactively view it as racism. Again put things into context.

You haven't labelled criticism of other states and soveriegnties as racist (not that I've seen), yet as soon as someone states 'it started in china' you jump on the racist card immediately.

 

[VicBased]

But it's no surprise to me that most on the blame China bandwagon limit their perspective to how they feel about it.

It is true about how we "feel" about China but i for one have a hard time forgetting the "Peaceful Liberation" of Tibet.

 

[Toump Ass]

People read what they want to read and ignore what they want to ignore. I have said over and over and over and over in this thread that the CCP have plenty to be blamed for in all this. I've said I don't like Xi and the growing state control in China and that I'll be glad to see the end of the belt and road initiative.

But it's no surprise to me that most on the blame China bandwagon limit their perspective to how they feel about it.

I get where you're coming from, but it sounds like you're just arguing over semantics.

Chinese citizens aren't China. China isn't the CCP. There's a nuance some people just don't get. It's not worth getting angry about.

 

[BringBackTorps]

But surely this is a nonsense? How the hell is it so contagious if not for human to human transmission? Not everyone that got it, ate the same bat soup (or whatever it was). Clearly human to human transmission happened from the get go, otherwise there’d be no pandemic.

1. Yes, nonsense can be expected from the CCP & Monkey King.

Many people in Wuhan were getting very sick (including attending doctors/nurses/co-workers of covid-19 victims etc.) & some dying, from November (not starting from mid-December, as CCP falsely claim: & US Vice President Pence is now challenging the December-start claim).

However, according to the CCP & WHO until 23.1.20, covid-19 was NOT contagious. The CCP's first admission of it being contagious was from the 23.1- the Wuhan lockdown.

I'm sure the CCP & WHO will enlighten us, with sound scientific reasoning & analysis, why they thought it was not contagious until 23.1. And for their failures to notify the world earlier about the FULL truth of covid-19.
Meanwhile, until countries closed their borders to China etc., many Chinese & non-Chinese citizens were travelling from Wuhan/Hubei to all over the world from November to 23.1.20...& were spreading the disease.



2. The ABC 24 Hour News radio just said that PM S. Morrison had just made a speech stating that, due to the covid-19 disaster, "Australia's sovereignty is at risk". The radio didn't quote Morrison elaborating on his reasons for such a gloomy statement.

I cannot recall any Australian PM ever making a statement "Australia's sovereignty is at risk"- a very grave comment to make.

 

[Monkey King]

Haven't seen many, you're also conflating criticism of a nation's government as racist.

Just because someone states 'it started in china' does not mean that is racist, that is absurd. If that is racist then the human race may as well do away with criticism altogether.

Nope. You've changed the wording to suit your narrative. It wasn't "it started in China". It was about supplies coming from "China, the country that started the pandemic". The supplies weren't coming from the CCP. The poster was talking about a whole country here.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Nope. You've changed the wording to suit your narrative. It wasn't "it started in China". It was about supplies coming from "China, the country that started the pandemic". The supplies weren't coming from the CCP. The poster was talking about a whole country here.

I'm not convinced you know what context means, and I don't have a 'narrative'

"China, the country that started the pandemic". The supplies weren't coming from the CCP. The poster was talking about a whole country here.

That does not necessarily mean whoever posted that is blaming it on a whole country, that's akin to saying that the whole population of china was in on it or collectively incompetent. Again that is absurd. I seriously doubt anyone is thinking that, but you're labeling it that way and playing the racist card.

Criticism does not equal racism: even if it is poorly worded and taken out of context which it seems you're doing

Derogatory comments on their own or combined with criticism is racism: Don't confuse the two.

You're either being naive or willfully ignorant.

 

[owen87]

I'm sure the CCP & WHO will enlighten us

Yes, get in contact with them and report back on their reply please.

 

[Monkey King]

I'm not convinced you know what context means, and I don't have a 'narrative'

"China, the country that started the pandemic". The supplies weren't coming from the CCP. The poster was talking about a whole country here.

That does not necessarily mean whoever posted that is blaming it on a whole country, that's akin to saying that the whole population of china was in on it or collectively incompetent. Again that is absurd. I seriously doubt anyone is thinking that, but you're labeling it that way and playing the racist card.

Your narrative is that I'm conflating country and government. You changed the wording of the post I was responding to; you changed the context of my response. Literally.

Cut the crap. Quote my response to that poster where I accused them of racism. It's a false accusation.

The supplies weren't coming from Wuhan. It was leveling blame at an entire country.

 

[Monkey King]

It is true about how we "feel" about China but i for one have a hard time forgetting the "Peaceful Liberation" of Tibet.

Tibet wasn't land of the free. It was a serfdom. No doubt the communists believed they were liberating the territory. I'm sure they also knew they were securing an extremely strategic geography and abundant natural resources, all while reuniting a motherland (on flimsy history) that they believed had been purposely deconstructed by foreign powers.

I'm glad to see the Uighur minority get some sympathy in recent times. I've been to Xinjiang and Tibet and it was apparent the Uighur's had it harder. If you know the history, East Turkistan as it was known, was maintaining independence and with their entire leadership on their way to peace talks with the CCP, the plane crashed. In that moment, East Turkistan became Xinjiang and all but forgotten to the rest of the world.

 

[ziad]

1. Yes, nonsense can be expected from the CCP & Monkey King.

Many people in Wuhan were getting very sick (including attending doctors/nurses/co-workers of covid-19 victims etc.) & some dying, from November (not starting from mid-December, as CCP falsely claim: & US Vice President Pence is now challenging the December-start claim).

However, according to the CCP & WHO until 23.1.20, covid-19 was NOT contagious. The CCP's first admission of it being contagious was from the 23.1- the Wuhan lockdown.

I'm sure the CCP & WHO will enlighten us, with sound scientific reasoning & analysis, why they thought it was not contagious until 23.1. And for their failures to notify the world earlier about the FULL truth of covid-19.
Meanwhile, until countries closed their borders to China etc., many Chinese & non-Chinese citizens were travelling from Wuhan/Hubei to all over the world from November to 23.1.20...& were spreading the disease.



2. The ABC 24 Hour News radio just said that PM S. Morrison had just made a speech stating that, due to the covid-19 disaster, "Australia's sovereignty is at risk". The radio didn't quote Morrison elaborating on his reasons for such a gloomy statement.

I cannot recall any Australian PM ever making a statement "Australia's sovereignty is at risk"- a very grave comment to make.

Its the ABC not like its in context

You may have misquoted the ABC as this isnt what the PM said. Would the ABC misquote? Its recorded on TV if you wish to check in detail. Words have meaning in context.

 

[Roby]

Most are on board that China was at fault. I feel sorry for the citizens there that have to endure poor prosperity and its regime constantly. Some of them have had to bury urns with other people's remains they just divvied up because of the amount of deaths which were obviously unreported.

The CCP has to be held accountable not just for the world but its own people. They destroyed the WHO which now will require reset or a complete disbandment, and new international health ministry will need to be created.

But there is the phase two problem.

Since March 18 this is the daily death tally of Covid-19 reported in China each day: 8 3 7 6 9 7 4 6 5 3 5 0 5 7 4 4 3 3 2 0 2.

Do you see how conveniently neat the numbers are?

China are still lying and under reporting. We can't go visit China and we can't allow Chinese to travel here, along with their goods because obviously the spread of the virus will just come back again. We also need monitor where they are travelling to so we can monitor the track of the next outbreaks. Those countries will properly need to be alerted and if not we can't open the borders with them either.

The CCP is playing a dangerous game here, a game they don't seem to understand the consequences with the nuance of a five year old child. Trump has already referenced criticisms towards China several times in the space of a month. Maybe the CCP know they are unconscionable but don't fear anyone, they may not realise that Trump is the same adolescent individual. It's time the truth comes out because more lies could lead to something far more dangerous.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

However, according to the CCP & WHO until 23.1.20, covid-19 was NOT contagious.

I don't want to get in the middle of anything here but the WHO didn't say 'it's not contagious', they said 'there's no clear evidence of human to human transmission'. That was on 12.1.20 when there was supposedly 41 cases in china. Those 2 statements are completely different.

'Not contagious' means nothing to worry about, it's 100% not contagious. That's not what they said.

'No clear evidence of human to human transmission' means we don't have definitive proof of the virus spreading from person to person. (it doesn't mean it's not)

China's numbers look peculiar now when we've seen how the numbers everywhere else have behaved. With the benefit of hindsight, it looks like china's numbers are unreliable. It wasn't that obvious when they had 80,000 cases and we had 20.

I wasn't there when China compiled their statistics so I can't definitively say this is fraud (that doesn't mean there wasn't fraud, it just means i can't say for sure there was). If the chinese government are found to have manipulated those numbers to downplay the severity of coroavirus and it's impacts then they have a lot to answer for.

 

[Monkey King]

Most are on board that China was at fault.

I think everyone can agree the CCP are at fault, but at fault for what exactly is where the difference lies.

 

[owen87]

Most are on board that China was at fault. I feel sorry for the citizens there that have to endure poor prosperity and its regime constantly. Some of them have had to bury urns with other people's remains they just divvied up because of the amount of deaths which were obviously unreported.

The CCP has to be held accountable not just for the world but its own people. They destroyed the WHO which now will require reset or a complete disbandment, and new international health ministry will need to be created.

But there is the phase two problem.

Since March 18 this is the daily death tally of Covid-19 reported in China each day: 8 3 7 6 9 7 4 6 5 3 5 0 5 7 4 4 3 3 2 0 2.

Do you see how conveniently neat the numbers are?

China are still lying and under reporting. We can't go visit China and we can't allow Chinese to travel here, along with their goods because obviously the spread of the virus will just come back again. We also need monitor where they are travelling to so we can monitor the track of the next outbreaks. Those countries will properly need to be alerted and if not we can't open the borders with them either.

The CCP is playing a dangerous game here, a game they don't seem to understand the consequences with the nuance of a five year old child. Trump has already referenced criticisms towards China several times in the space of a month. Maybe the CCP know they are unconscionable but don't fear anyone, they may not realise that Trump is the same adolescent individual. It's time the truth comes out because more lies could lead to something far more dangerous.

China's numbers are impossible to believe, as are Iran's.

I get that many countries data is flawed, given issues with resources available to test cases and such, but Iran & China stand out as deliberately falsified.

Iran has 0 spikes in new cases or deaths, everything falls within a 'range' - China's are effectively doing the exact same thing just the range is < 50 new cases and < 10 new deaths. Iran's is basically the same thing but on a higher scale.

Both countries are telling a story instead of just reporting figures.

 

[Monkey King]

I don't want to get in the middle of anything here but the WHO didn't say 'it's not contagious', they said 'there's no clear evidence of human to human transmission'. That was on 12.1.20 when there was supposedly 41 cases in china. Those 2 statements are completely different.

'Not contagious' means nothing to worry about, it's 100% not contagious. That's not what they said.

China's numbers look peculiar now when we've seen how the numbers everywhere else have behaved. With the benefit of hindsight, it looks like china's numbers are unreliable. It wasn't that obvious when they had 80,000 cases and we had 20.

You're spot on re the WHO statement, but some who are angry will twist that into meaning whatever they want it to mean.

The CCP have been fudging figures for years. Inflated GDP is a prime example. But it would be a mistake to compare their numbers to those in western countries, because the government and just as importantly, the citizens, simply didn't take the same protective measures. Somewhere like South Korea or Taiwan would be a better model in assessing the numbers out of China.

 

[jatz14]

Link?

Bigfooty.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

You're spot on re the WHO statement, but some who are angry will twist that into meaning whatever they want it to mean.

The CCP have been fudging figures for years. Inflated GDP is a prime example. But it would be a mistake to compare their numbers to those in western countries, because the government and just as importantly, the citizens, simply didn't take the same protective measures. Somewhere like South Korea or Taiwan would be a better model in assessing the numbers out of China.

Even south korea are still getting cases. Just had 53 today which is more than china had this week even though they have 5% of the population so I find it hard to believe the numbers china is reporting.

But then again Australia's numbers seem to be behaving differently to the rest of the world as well. But numbers behaving differently on their own don't constitute a crime.

 

[owen87]

You're spot on re the WHO statement, but some who are angry will twist that into meaning whatever they want it to mean.

The CCP have been fudging figures for years. Inflated GDP is a prime example. But it would be a mistake to compare their numbers to those in western countries, because the government and just as importantly, the citizens, simply didn't take the same protective measures. Somewhere like South Korea or Taiwan would be a better model in assessing the numbers out of China.

S Korea's numbers have a lot more 'noise' than China's if you look at it, China's were very questionable right from the outset given someone worked out the formula they were using. I'd say China's data from a statistical perspective is close to worthless; S Korea, Taiwan and Singapore I would have a lot more faith in being closer to accurate.

 

[Roby]

China's numbers are impossible to believe, as are Iran's.

I get that many countries data is flawed, given issues with resources available to test cases and such, but Iran & China stand out as deliberately falsified.

Iran has 0 spikes in new cases or deaths, everything falls within a 'range' - China's are effectively doing the exact same thing just the range is < 50 new cases and < 10 new deaths. Iran's is basically the same thing but on a higher scale.

Both countries are telling a story instead of just reporting figures.

Have a look at this doco, you don't have to necessarily agree with it's premise but it makes salient points. They make some outlandish implications but the CCP is a Marxist government, it's the most dangerous type of ideology in the world because it has no morality and therefore it does itself no favours and open for unbridled criticisms.

S Korea's numbers have a lot more 'noise' than China's if you look at it, China's were very questionable right from the outset given someone worked out the formula they were using. I'd say China's data from a statistical perspective is close to worthless; S Korea, Taiwan and Singapore I would have a lot more faith in being closer to accurate.

Taiwan closed their borders to China way before everyone. No coincidence they are doing so well.

 

[Monkey King]

Even south korea are still getting cases. Just had 53 today which is more than china had this week even though they have 5% of the population so I find it hard to believe the numbers china is reporting.

But then again Australia's numbers seem to be behaving differently to the rest of the world as well. But numbers behaving differently on their own don't constitute a crime.

SK also didn't lockdown though. What I hear from hospital workers I know in China suggests activity on the ground supports that not a lot is going on there atm. Lots of different variables going into global figures that will hopefully come out in the wash. Social distancing measures and compliance, isolation and quarantine measures, tracking efficacy, an informed public, wearing masks, population density, age demographics, testing criteria, reporting standards. The list just goes on.

 

[BringBackTorps]

More Lies & Cover-Ups From The Chinese Communist Party

The CCP is launching a propaganda campaign that the US Military is responsible for introducing covid-19 into Wuhan.
They have used GlobalResearch, a Canadian conspiracy website, to buttress their arguments, & misrepresented Japanese "support"- as well as CCP sources, of course.
This link, from 4.4, explains the various strands of "evidence" they are using, & is well worth reading.

Opinion | How China’s fake news machine is rewriting the history of Covid-19, even as the pandemic unfolds

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson’s retweet of an article blaming the U.S. for infecting Wuhan with coronavirus went viral, viewed 160 million times within hours. But where did the story come from?

www.politico.com

The link states

On 11.3 "Zhao (Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson- my words) would soon forward (GlobalResearch articles- my words) to hundreds of thousands, who would forward it to hundreds of millions".

"On March 13, Zhao tweeted links to the GlobalResearch articles 'This article is very important to each & every one of us. Please read & retweet. It is further evidence that the virus originated in the US' ".
"The New York Times reported it had been viewed more than 160,000,000 times (within hours- my words & emphasis). Media world-wide carried stories about his (Zhao) tweets, putting them in front of millions more readers"

"When President Donald Trump, Secretary Of State Mike Pompeo, & others began fighting back (all emphases mine) by loudly & repeatedly calling covid-19 'the Chinese virus', social division in the US grew, if that is possible. The media accused Trump of being racist & xenophobic...".

 

[NicNat2TimKelly]

Most are on board that China was at fault. I feel sorry for the citizens there that have to endure poor prosperity and its regime constantly. Some of them have had to bury urns with other people's remains they just divvied up because of the amount of deaths which were obviously unreported.

The CCP has to be held accountable not just for the world but its own people. They destroyed the WHO which now will require reset or a complete disbandment, and new international health ministry will need to be created.

But there is the phase two problem.

Since March 18 this is the daily death tally of Covid-19 reported in China each day: 8 3 7 6 9 7 4 6 5 3 5 0 5 7 4 4 3 3 2 0 2.

Do you see how conveniently neat the numbers are?

China are still lying and under reporting. We can't go visit China and we can't allow Chinese to travel here, along with their goods because obviously the spread of the virus will just come back again. We also need monitor where they are travelling to so we can monitor the track of the next outbreaks. Those countries will properly need to be alerted and if not we can't open the borders with them either.

The CCP is playing a dangerous game here, a game they don't seem to understand the consequences with the nuance of a five year old child. Trump has already referenced criticisms towards China several times in the space of a month. Maybe the CCP know they are unconscionable but don't fear anyone, they may not realise that Trump is the same adolescent individual. It's time the truth comes out because more lies could lead to something far more dangerous.

I can't see the convenient neatness you're referring to. You might have to point it out.

They've just opened up Wuhan and the streets are clogged with people and cars again. That would be pretty foolhardy if they were actually still getting a lot of deaths and infections now wouldn't it ?

 

[Hawk_francais]

Have a look at this doco, you don't have to necessarily agree with it's premise but it makes salient points. They make some outlandish implications but the CCP is a Marxist government, it's the most dangerous type of ideology in the world because it has no morality and therefore it does itself no favours and open for unbridled criticisms.

Marxism is inherently immoral, and therefore any and all criticism of its proponents is justified.

This, in your view, is a “salient point”?

 

[Aussie in exile]

No dou

It's so funny watching trump's press conference every day and him having to put up with those reporters. What's more funny is that CNN never show his daily press conference anymore because they thought he was turning it into a political forum yet they have a panel of 5 and talk about all the ways he stuffed up during the briefing every day

No doubt these press conferences are a political forum for the Fat Boy.
The fact of the matter is that the Fat Boy is playing to his base of Red Necks and the uneducated. The same people who believe everything Fake Fox news says.

 

[Hawk_francais]

A lot of commentary in here about the evils of the Chinese Communist Party and how they need to be held to account.

Any suggestions? Not sure if you’ve noticed, but China is our number one trading partner. We are a little piglet sucking at their teet. We have nothing they cannot find elsewhere. We have no power.

It’s up to China’s own citizens to hold their government to account, or to other nations to sanction them with trade restrictions en bloc. Neither is within the realms of likelihood.