Mega Thread Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 3

[Gralin]

This is part Three.

Part One can be found here -

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. (Thread part 1 - cont in part 2, link in thread)

This is part 1 of this thread. Continued in Part 2: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/coronavirus-the-afl-season-postponed-part-2.1237935/

www.bigfooty.com

Part Two can be found here -

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. Part 2 * CONTINUED ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED *

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/pages/covid-stats-australia/

www.bigfooty.com

Part 4 can be found here:

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 4

This is part Four. Part One can be found here - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/coronavirus-the-afl-season-postponed.1236651/unread Part Two can be found here -...

www.bigfooty.com

Australian stats page:

Australian Coronavirus Stats

Latest COVID-19 stats from Australia.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Forward Press]

There is truth to this though, isn't there?

If you're being honest, I mean.

I'm pro-lockdown but neither unemployed nor introverted.



I realise the irony being a frequent poster on an internet forum.

 

[blackcat]

In my opinion AFL house has a lot of fat that needs to be cut. Staff and wages
Clubs need to cut their cloth accordingly in these harsh times. Wages and staff need to be cut at clubs as well

the major problem is domestic popularity of commercial American pro-sports leagues (i am looking at u mick Malthouse and greenbay packer's Vince Lombardi ) and their revenue quantum (I am looking at Boston Consulting boffins) and the tier of people on AFL club boards almost to a 't' occupying top ranks of business in southern states

creates monoculture corporate lens, like former St Kilda President Rocket Rodney Butters spoke to Demetriou about floating the AFL and taking their pound of flesh

our domestic pros consider the American salaries as the norm, I wish they could speak to late Sydney King's entrepreneur Mike Wrublewski

 

[blackcat]

* CONTINUED ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED *

What absolute hogwash cherf , hogwash
it's hogwash cherf

I have found FigBooty mostly a good-faith domain for banter and asides. Don't allow moderators, who on the whole do a very good job, unrewarded and underappreciated, but don't let them few spout this claptrap.

It goes without saying, racism abhorrent, I would raise you, seeking to allege incidents as racist when they are not, is equally beyond the pale, don't move the bar to AFL House SJW absurdity

Chief Contra Mundum evo skilts medusala GuruJane Lance Uppercut RussellEbertHandball

 

[Monkey King]

was in reference to the racist appellation for Trump if HRC does the same and closes flights into La Guardia JFK and LAX

Hillary Clinton has no place in a rational discussion about the Columbia University model or Trump's limited response to the threat of the virus.

I am no more privy to discussions at the White House than you are. But we don't need to be. We can see what was actioned in society and what wasn't. We can see what was said publicly and what wasn't.

 

[Chief]

* CONTINUED ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED *

What absolute hogwash cherf , hogwash
it's hogwash cherf

I have found FigBooty mostly a good-faith domain for banter and asides. Don't allow moderators, who on the whole do a very good job, unrewarded and underappreciated, but don't let them few spout this claptrap.

It goes without saying, racism abhorrent, I would raise you, seeking to allege incidents as racist when they are not, is equally beyond the pale, don't move the bar to AFL House SJW absurdity

Chief Contra Mundum evo skilts medusala GuruJane Lance Uppercut RussellEbertHandball

Racist!

 

[blackcat]

Hillary Clinton has no place in a rational discussion about the Columbia University model or Trump's limited response to the threat of the virus.

I am no more privy to discussions at the White House than you are. But we don't need to be. We can see what was actioned in society and what wasn't. We can see what was said publicly and what wasn't.

No, we actually cannot. The media in DC and the Beltway are not good-faith actors and interlocutors. They are activists.

The bureaucracy nigh steers itself, you conflated mien, gravitas, and rhetoric for the elected figurehead. The gameshow host changed the rules, but the opposition cry foul and seek to be a bulwark to the current administration shepherding the nation. They would be better getting their own house in order instead of rigging Primaries for Biden who may or may not have early onset dementia, then armchair Andrew Cuomo or HRC into candidacy

 

[Clems Knee]

No, we actually cannot. The media in DC and the Beltway are not good-faith actors and interlocutors. They are activists.

The bureaucracy nigh steers itself, you conflated mien, gravitas, and rhetoric for the elected figurehead. The gameshow host changed the rules, but the opposition cry foul and seek to be a bulwark to the current administration shepherding the nation. They would be better getting their own house in order instead of rigging Primaries for Biden who may or may not have early onset dementia, then armchair Andrew Cuomo or HRC into candidacy

Ah, with your strange style of writing it has been hard to understand what the **** you’ve been talking about. I figured you wrote in another language, then pressed Google translate.

But now it’s obvious; you accuse Biden of having dementia but ignore the batshit ramblings and abrogation of responsibility by Trump. When you say the game show host changed the rules, you are gently saying he drained the swamp. He didn’t. He is more corrupt than any president before, including RM Nixon. He broke the rules and spat in America’s face.
And then the accusation of rigging the primaries. The US stopped being a real democracy a decade ago when the Republican Party used computer modelling to gerrymander the congressional districts in order to maximise their numbers.

The pretence that a vote for Biden is a vote for Clinton is straight out of the extreme right’s playbook. The only difference between you and the others is that your nonsense is nonsensical.

 

[blackcat]

Ah, with your strange style of writing it has been hard to understand what the fu** you’ve been talking about. I figured you wrote in another language, then pressed Google translate.

But now it’s obvious; you accuse Biden of having dementia but ignore the batshit ramblings and abrogation of responsibility by Trump. When you say the game show host changed the rules, you are gently saying he drained the swamp. He didn’t. He is more corrupt than any president before, including RM Nixon. He broke the rules and spat in America’s face.
And then the accusation of rigging the primaries. The US stopped being a real democracy a decade ago when the Republican Party used computer modelling to gerrymander the congressional districts in order to maximise their numbers.

The pretence that a vote for Biden is a vote for Clinton is straight out of the extreme right’s playbook. The only difference between you and the others is that your nonsense is nonsensical.

pretty clear I am not advocating for the POTUS with my sneering aside

you know one can straddle the fence wrt either side of politics

 

[Jupes]

All of them are fair points.

However, my main point is that since this is such a new virus, and given how easily transmissible it was - and that it definitely killed people far more effectively than the typical flu - that the lockdowns had to happen. As the oft-repeated mantra goes, better to overreact than underreact.

The consequence of dawdling for a week while we muse the impact on lack of fresh air for people, psychological harm, consider herd immunity, selective lockdowns etc etc would be catastrophic. Look at the UK who played around with herd immunity for a day or two then realised it was the wrong approach and paid for it weeks afterwards. Quarantining of all the vulnerable people is just not possible - like you said, even aged care workers need to go to the shops, so not sure why you went down that route - maybe it's random musings, fair enough.

Talking of that - herd immunity is a falsehood. To do that would require say 15 million people - at least - in Australia to be infected and even if you take the very optimistic view that only 0.1% of them would die - well, that number is not acceptable to me and many others. And if it turns out the immunity is only for a few months (eg like the typical flu) - well, I don't want to think about that.

I also worry about some of the fake news in that first paragraph (to use that stupid phrase):
- Australian infections were doubling every 3 to 5 days when the first domestic restrictions were imposed (in March)
- Different countries had different 'lag times' based on the level of spread that was already in the community - the point of the lockdowns is simply to reduce it further even if it was already too late for many - the US is a classic example where the excess deaths in NYC are at astronomical levels but many theorise that Cuomo's measures saved it from doubling, Italy is another one where lockdowns spared much of southern Italy from the fate of northern Italy
- You already acknowledged the success of Italy, NZ and Germany, but there are many other countries in the world where lockdowns were effective based on case numbers and deaths (Malaysia, Taiwan, South Korea etc etc)

i just think what little data there was was too poor to start restructuring society around. the government can barely handle getting my car over the pits in under a day they're not really who i want deciding how many people i can have in my house at one time or what kind of exercise is allowed down the park or how far a part i must stand from a friend.

Quarantining of all the vulnerable people is just not possible - like you said, even aged care workers need to go to the shops, so not sure why you went down that route - maybe it's random musings, fair enough.

which is still true even with all the lockdown measures now. i'm not sure how it makes more sense to try to quarantine everyone instead of those at high risk.

Australian infections were doubling every 3 to 5 days when the first domestic restrictions were imposed (in March)

here i'm talking about the actual lockdown laws that went into effect from the 30th march. new infections had been on the way down a good fortnight or more prior to their implementation.

 

[Mateyman]

which is still true even with all the lockdown measures now. i'm not sure how it makes more sense to try to quarantine everyone instead of those at high risk.

The difference obviously being that in one case you can keep the general level of infection in the community low, meaning that it doesn't get into those high risk areas (as not many people anywhere have it). If you allow it to let rip in the general community the attempts at quarantining the vulnerable will be ineffective, as in Sweden, the UK and everywhere else to try this brilliant strategy.

 

[Clems Knee]

pretty clear I am not advocating for the POTUS with my sneering aside

you know one can straddle the fence wrt either side of politics

Straddling the fence is not what you are doing.
Because you are minimising the monumental failure of the worst president in 240 years, your writing is defending him. Trump’s actions have been disgraceful at every level.
From what I’ve read, your plan of attack is the standard “whatabout”.

 

[Forward Press]

Yeah Mateyman echoed my argument pretty closely there with regards to your second point Jupes, so I just want to add that:

Re - first point - with how unknown this was it merited an 'overreaction' - if you want to call it that. However, we knew it was highly contagious, we knew it killed people more effectively than the typical flu, and we knew none of us had antibodies or immunity to it (that we know of). It was the logical course of action.

Re - third point - also fair point, I imagine the government saw that the cases weren't slowing down enough and put the hammer down. It has resulted in Australia being in the fortunate position of something resembling normal life already resuming in early May - that's not even possible in places like the US, UK, Italy etc.

 

[blackcat]

Robert B Talisse on Overdoing Democracy

Robert B. Talisse on Overdoing Democracy

You can overdo most things, but it seems strange to say that you can overdo democracy. Robert B. Talisse thinks you can overdo it. He argues his case in this episode of the Philosophy Bites podcast. We are very grateful...

philosophybites.com

see it in hollowing out of the centre

dont believe Blair and Clinton's third way BS,

 

[blackcat]

The difference obviously being that in one case you can keep the general level of infection in the community low, meaning that it doesn't get into those high risk areas (as not many people anywhere have it). If you allow it to let rip in the general community the attempts at quarantining the vulnerable will be ineffective, as in Sweden, the UK and everywhere else to try this brilliant strategy.

Fleetstreet never allowed them to pursue such strategy

 

[Aussie in exile]

the major problem is domestic popularity of commercial American pro-sports leagues (i am looking at u mick Malthouse and greenbay packer's Vince Lombardi ) and their revenue quantum (I am looking at Boston Consulting boffins) and the tier of people on AFL club boards almost to a 't' occupying top ranks of business in southern states

creates monoculture corporate lens, like former St Kilda President Rocket Rodney Butters spoke to Demetriou about floating the AFL and taking their pound of flesh

our domestic pros consider the American salaries as the norm, I wish they could speak to late Sydney King's entrepreneur Mike Wrublewski

We can't even compare our-selfs to the appeal of American sports
The US population is 13 times that of Australia and that's huge.
American football can sell out games in the UK with hours, and that's sell out.No need to give out freebies to pad out the stadiums. As a game we have no overseas appeal despite what some people think.
We should concentrate solely on the domestic market, and realise our limits

 

[blackcat]

Yeah Mateyman Australia being in the fortunate position of something resembling normal life already resuming in early May - that's not even possible in places like the US, UK, Italy etc.

may have strong synchronicity with Winter season, when the flu is let rip,

NZ and Australia fortunate the northern hemisphere(+islandstatus) married with the Wuhan* shock , and spread , the current decline may be diseconomy as it is given rocket with Winter season

*if indeed it did have antecedent in Wuhan wet markets and Pangolins and Bats, that is too convenient and scripted akin to a limited hangout.

Virologist from the Academy are quick to point out we cannot possibly find forms patient zero at this time

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

Where's the fixture maybe people would get a bit more excited about footy being back if they actually knew who their team was playing? Oh but nevermind Collingwood and Richmond know who they are playing and that's all that matters right?? Bloody #VICBIAS again! QLD teams like the Eagles are doing it tough up there, how about a bit of COLA for us?

 

[blackcat]

We can't even compare our-selfs to the appeal of American sports
The US population is 13 times that of Australia and that's huge.
American football can sell out games in the UK with hours, and that's sell out.No need to give out freebies to pad out the stadiums. As a game we have no overseas appeal despite what some people think.
We should concentrate solely on the domestic market, and realise our limits

More so the monopoly status of the leagues, the capital city of Victoria Melbourne has to split revenue between nine teams instead of a single team

 

[Jupes]

The difference obviously being that in one case you can keep the general level of infection in the community low, meaning that it doesn't get into those high risk areas (as not many people anywhere have it). If you allow it to let rip in the general community the attempts at quarantining the vulnerable will be ineffective, as in Sweden, the UK and everywhere else to try this brilliant strategy.

except for all the countries that instituted lockdowns and suffered just as badly or worse than sweden. or countries that had much more relaxed policies and hardly suffered at all. new data coming out of america is showing a reduction in r-value in states relaxing lockdowns in comparison to those extending them.

yeah Forward Press i think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one mate. guess i'm cautious about rebuilding society on some good sounding ideas that may well have some very seriously negative ramifications that may only be knowable many years after the fact. even if immediate results were what was written in the tin.

 

[Chief]

Fleetstreet never allowed them to pursue such strategy

Finally did something right.

 

[blackcat]

Where's the fixture maybe people would get a bit more excited about footy being back if they actually knew who their team was playing? Oh but nevermind Collingwood and Richmond know who they are playing and that's all that matters right?? Bloody #VICBIAS again! QLD teams like the Eagles are doing it tough up there, how about a bit of COLA for us?

Elle MacPherson TAB

 

[Jupes]

may have strong synchronicity with Winter season, when the flu is let rip,

NZ and Australia fortunate the northern hemisphere(+islandstatus) married with the Wuhan* shock , and spread , the current decline may be diseconomy as it is given rocket with Winter season

we were also coming off what was reported as our worst flu season on record. which may have reduced our 'seriously at risk' demographic prior to corona landing.

 

[Monkey King]

No, we actually cannot. The media in DC and the Beltway are not good-faith actors and interlocutors. They are activists.

Who said anything about the media? Being a fragment of what constitutes society, I can see what is and isn't actioned in society. I can see and hear what Trump says publicly, unedited and uneditorialised; and I can read what he Tweets. This is just tosh of the highest order.

 

[blackcat]

QUOTE= me "blackcat"


*if indeed it did have antecedent in Wuhan wet markets and Pangolins and Bats, that is too convenient and scripted akin to a limited hangout.

Virologist Professors from the Academy are quick to point out we cannot possibly find forms patient zero at this time
/QUOTE


medusala

 

[blackcat]

Who said anything about the media? Being a fragment of what constitutes society, I can see what is and isn't actioned in society. I can see and hear what Trump says publicly, unedited and uneditorialised; and I can read what he Tweets. This is just tosh of the highest order.

the fact that you read and place any weight on the tweet ouevre says more about you quite frankly, evo don't you have the playbook from @AndrewBreitbart which says how Trump was going to <game> the Beltway, do Monkey King a favour and sling him the primer

Mature folk need not play one side, they can be impartial bystanders not ceding territory to the propaganda fourth estate

#fuxsake