Autopsy Crack Open Each Other's Heads And Feast On The Goo Inside: Autopsy vs Lions

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Gasometer said:
Do you reckon Rawlings is sitting back on Monday morning telling Noble not to worry, move on the Duds, come 2024 look out we’re coming?
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Why did he play Kayne Turner on the forward line and Lmac somewhere he couldn't intercept freely? Certainly it exposed some players who might otherwise make a few intercepts.
 
ferball said:
Why did he play Kayne Turner on the forward line and Lmac somewhere he couldn't intercept freely? Certainly it exposed some players who might otherwise make a few intercepts.
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Because he needs to hide Ziebell.

We took our best intercept defender and put him into a lockdown role where he just doesn’t have the wheels to go with Cameron.

It’s not even robbing Peter to pay Paul, it robbing Peter, having Paul rob you and still tell you that you owe him money.

It’s ******* idiotic, but that’s what happens when you are hiding a liability due to his Captaincy status.
 
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Roosurgence said:
Because he needs to hide Ziebell.

We took our best intercept defender and put him into a lockdown role where he just doesn’t have the wheels to go with Cameron.

It’s not even robbing Peter to pay Paul, it robbing Peter, having Paul rob you and still tell you that you owe him money.

It’s tucking idiotic, but that’s what happens when you are hiding a liability due to his Captaincy status.
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I thought Ziebell was exposed last night. That was kind of my point.

Moving Turner and keeping Lmac busy meant Ziebell was exposed as unable to intercept mark against pressure, unlike LMac in r1.
 

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ferball said:
I thought Ziebell was exposed last night. That was kind of my point.

Moving Turner and keeping Lmac busy meant Ziebell was exposed as unable to intercept mark against pressure, unlike LMac in r1.
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My whole point was that LMac shouldn’t have been playing that role, but had to because Ziebell kills any flexibility we may have down back.

100% agree he got exposed, but having to play him also robbed us Luke’s intercept and rebound.
 
Roosurgence said:
My whole point was that LMac shouldn’t have been playing that role, but had to because Ziebell kills any flexibility we may have down back.

100% agree he got exposed, but having to play him also robbed us Luke’s intercept and rebound.
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I disagree. You could have put Turner on Cameron and he'd have done a better job than Luke, who would have had 10 or 11 intercepts and papered over the Ziebell shaped crack in the backline.

This sort of thing gives Noble the opportunity to present his performance to him. He may have to drop him if he doesn't lift (or may have to drop him now anyway as an example.)
 
The reality of it all is that the list isn’t that good, they are not coached well at all and the standards within the club are piss poor.

There is a reason it all feels so hopeless right now and that is because we don’t have an elite core driving and setting the expectations on a week to week basis.

Sadly I’m looking at the Captain and the senior players around him. Start there. For too long this club has shirked the tough calls and it’s been to our detriment.
We are the definition of meek. There is nothing bold in our direction at all and to think we could wind back to where we were this time last year and still be dishing out the same shithouse performances shows the level of care and dedication we expect as members just isn’t there.
The whole joint is simply a mess but let’s keep telling ourselves differently.
 
ferball said:
I disagree. You could have put Turner on Cameron and he'd have done a better job than Luke, who would have had 10 or 11 intercepts and papered over the Ziebell shaped crack in the backline.

This sort of thing gives Noble the opportunity to present his performance to him. He may have to drop him if he doesn't lift (or may have to drop him now anyway as an example.)
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Ok so if he moves Turner to Cameron, who does he move out of the backline?

The logical answer would be Ziebell, but he can’t do that because then it’s admitting that your Captain is the liability that even blind Freddy can see.

So instead he stubbornly hangs LMac out to dry, so he can justify a role for Jack.
 
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tazaa said:
The reality of it all is that the list isn’t that good, they are not coached well at all and the standards within the club are piss poor.
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We have major holes and a bunch of kids. Our problems have been massively exacerbated by a decimated midfield.

Write a list of our top ten mids, remove anyone under 30 games.

We have like 2 blokes from that list available.

It’s problematic because this is one area we have more depth than others.

We attended a centre bounce last night with JHF, Taylor, Zurhaar. A kid in his third game and 2 players who are mids.

We are on a hiding to nothing there. We could run Ziebell through there. He would likely improve us in there too.

tazaa said:
There is a reason it all feels so hopeless right now and that is because we don’t have an elite core driving and setting the expectations on a week to week basis.
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It feels confused. Probably let Ziebs captain a year too long.

Our mess of a forward line our decimated midfield, if we wanted him to have more impact they could probably throw him around. In fact I’ll go so far as to say it takes some nuts not to.

tazaa said:
Sadly I’m looking at the Captain and the senior players around him. Start there. For too long this club has shirked the tough calls and it’s been to our detriment.
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Agree to a degree.

I posted earlier Goldy playing in the forward line is a huge indication we are playing to transition not playing to win.

Stand by my comments that he is our best Ruckman.

I have actually warmed to the idea of co-captains next year. Jy and LMac.

tazaa said:
We are the definition of meek. There is nothing bold in our direction at all and to think we could wind back to where we were this time last year shows the level of care and dedication we expect as members just isn’t there. The whole joint is a mess.
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I still expect better footy in the latter half of the year.
 


Should be on replay every week as a reminder. Quite fitting that some of the blokes in that clip aren't at the club anymore/have been delisted.

It is a really important message. How many players take training seriously? How many players in our team give themselves a score in regards to skills, running, fitness and leadership?

At some point, there will come a time where players have to get serious. They have to actually start showing something so we can build from that. What can we build from getting spanked? What can we build from the most important elements of the game being performed so poorly by our players?

If you don't play for the jumper and if you don't give your all, no matter who you are, you won't last long. 11 players left the club in 2020 and there were more that didn't make it after that too. Who is next?
 
HTPunter said:
I'd love a new rule for the side - no kick off the mark without taking a couple of momentum steps first, no handball to a standstill player, if you're under pressure in defence cop the tackle and then give it, rather than give it to your teammate to be tackled, and handball to chests.

This is stuff I learned in auskick and see weekly from North players. Russian roulette for who gets hammered in defence, good kicks kicking it lazily and turning it over, handballs to ankles which kills any forward momentum.
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I seem to recall that in 2017, Brisbane lost to North and claimed the spoon. They may have tanked - who knows.

They could still be that bad but they aren't. They turned it around, and credit must go to the way they built up and developed the playing style of their team. They recruited a leader and put him on the field as an in-game coach. Players were being instructed, guided and demands were made for them to cut the crap so that they could improve together as a team. I reckon a lot of people saw that Hodge took up a spot on their list as a superanuation bonus but whatever they paid him has benefitted the team immensly. The rules you speak of became the rules that he helped Brisbane to implement.

And when Hodge had to go he took his turn.

Fagan might just be a really good coach too by the way, but the way I see it, the best leaders don't surround themselves with cronies or clones. They have other leaders who will take responsibility and execute in reward for trust and confidence.

Plenty of posts above have mentioned it - it's really difficult to recognise on-field leadership within the North team. Standing in the middle for the coin toss is not captancy. Off-field is a whole other matter but in the clinches, we should have experienced of enthusiastic blokes on every line holding the team to account and maintaining the structres. Having two or three compete against each other in marking contests up forward and down back is a joke. Having the mids run out the ball to see nobody in the front half is a joke. When a little bloke like Mahoney is the target, why bomb the ball onto his head when he's up against a bloke six inches taller? Who's waiting to pounce if Larkey can't mark but brings the ball to ground?

Who's there to guide the team to do the stuff that wins games when the coach is up behind glass?
 

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Only Forwards said:
We have major holes and a bunch of kids. Our problems have been massively exacerbated by a decimated midfield.

Write a list of our top ten mids, remove anyone under 30 games.

We have like 2 blokes from that list available.

It’s problematic because this is one area we have more depth than others.

We attended a centre bounce last night with JHF, Taylor, Zurhaar. A kid in his third game and 2 players who are mids.

We are on a hiding to nothing there. We could run Ziebell through there. He would likely improve us in there too.



It feels confused. Probably let Ziebs captain a year too long.

Our mess of a forward line our decimated midfield, if we wanted him to have more impact they could probably throw him around. In fact I’ll go so far as to say it takes some nuts not to.



Agree to a degree.

I posted earlier Goldy playing in the forward line is a huge indication we are playing to transition not playing to win.

Stand by my comments that he is our best Ruckman.

I have actually warmed to the idea of co-captains next year. Jy and LMac.



I still expect better footy in the latter half of the year.
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I mentioned it over the pre season that the club has always been reactionary rather than proactive.

Under Laidley, Scott etc we ALWAYS waited till we hit rock bottom, till s**t hit the fan, till the coach and the chairman and important powerbrokers of the club came out in the media and asked for a lift before responding.
If we are waiting for Cunnington to come back to give us that uplift, similar to last year then it’s just an indictment on the place. What if Cunners doesn’t return? What then? What plans and preparations are there for life without our midfield bull?

There is none. It’s why the uplift in the second half when there’s no pressure to perform and the season is shot is a pisstake. We deserve better than that. The season ******* starts in March not May. If that wasn’t the case then these campaigners can hand back half their paychecks.
 


North Melbourne great Wayne Carey has lashed Roos players for getting ahead of themselves after last week’s win over a “WAFL side” and questioned the club’s lack of progress this year.

The Roos have only a solitary win over Covid-ravaged West Coast from the first three rounds with few signs of progress in a 108-point loss coach David Noble labelled as “unacceptable”.

Noble has warned his side there will be “consequences” over skill errors so bad the Roos gave up 80 points from turnovers, with Sydney awaiting at the SCG then the Western Bulldogs and Geelong.

The greatest Roo in the club’s 97-year VFL-AFL history said he was mystified how the club’s strong momentum in the last half of 2021 had evaporated.

“Let’s be honest, they beat a WAFL team by 15 points last week, they sung the song like it was a Grand Final,” Carey told Triple M.

“Don’t get me wrong in the position they are in, it was the first win for a long time and they wanted to sing the song but they sung it like they had won a grand final.

“Under the circumstances and what West Coast had been put through that was over the top and it carried through to the weekend. They are that far off it, it’s not funny.

“I said last year they wouldn’t win a game and they finished off last year fairly strongly.

“I thought they were competitive, they never got flogged in the last 10 games apart from one game.

“Where have they gone? A whole summer, number one draft pick, other kids into the club, strength and fitness that’s built over five or six years. You should be on the improve and unfortunately that’s an absolute shellacking.”

Noble said the Roos hadn’t worked hard enough or executed basic AFL skills as the Lions annihilated his club in a rampaging last-term surge to blow the margin to three figures.

“Pretty embarrassing. It was pretty poor on our standards we’re trying to create,” he said.

“There’s got to be consequences around training, there’s got to be consequences around skill errors. I’m not happy.

“Today we got outworked. It’s pretty simple. The midfield got outworked, the defenders were poor, they let their man lead them to the ball and our forwards didn’t play in front.

“It was a really simple, basic game today that we let ourselves down enormously and yeah, we should be embarrassed.’’
 
ferball said:
Why did he play Kayne Turner on the forward line and Lmac somewhere he couldn't intercept freely? Certainly it exposed some players who might otherwise make a few intercepts.
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Kayne Turner got the run around early from Rioli the week before. Was benched then moved forward. Wingard could have kicked 5 he was that far off Turner at times.

He is a scrapper who can have a role on a slower less dynamic small forward, but he would have been destroyed by Cameron and co.
 
giantroo said:


North Melbourne great Wayne Carey has lashed Roos players for getting ahead of themselves after last week’s win over a “WAFL side” and questioned the club’s lack of progress this year.

The Roos have only a solitary win over Covid-ravaged West Coast from the first three rounds with few signs of progress in a 108-point loss coach David Noble labelled as “unacceptable”.

Noble has warned his side there will be “consequences” over skill errors so bad the Roos gave up 80 points from turnovers, with Sydney awaiting at the SCG then the Western Bulldogs and Geelong.

The greatest Roo in the club’s 97-year VFL-AFL history said he was mystified how the club’s strong momentum in the last half of 2021 had evaporated.

“Let’s be honest, they beat a WAFL team by 15 points last week, they sung the song like it was a Grand Final,” Carey told Triple M.

“Don’t get me wrong in the position they are in, it was the first win for a long time and they wanted to sing the song but they sung it like they had won a grand final.

“Under the circumstances and what West Coast had been put through that was over the top and it carried through to the weekend. They are that far off it, it’s not funny.

“I said last year they wouldn’t win a game and they finished off last year fairly strongly.

“I thought they were competitive, they never got flogged in the last 10 games apart from one game.

“Where have they gone? A whole summer, number one draft pick, other kids into the club, strength and fitness that’s built over five or six years. You should be on the improve and unfortunately that’s an absolute shellacking.”

Noble said the Roos hadn’t worked hard enough or executed basic AFL skills as the Lions annihilated his club in a rampaging last-term surge to blow the margin to three figures.

“Pretty embarrassing. It was pretty poor on our standards we’re trying to create,” he said.

“There’s got to be consequences around training, there’s got to be consequences around skill errors. I’m not happy.

“Today we got outworked. It’s pretty simple. The midfield got outworked, the defenders were poor, they let their man lead them to the ball and our forwards didn’t play in front.

“It was a really simple, basic game today that we let ourselves down enormously and yeah, we should be embarrassed.’’
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The part where we haven’t gone on with our momentum late last year is disappointing

I hope we haven’t gone backwards… completely lol
 
It shouldn't be easy to come up with excuses for last nights 100+ mauling.

The fact is we are rubbish. Its that simple.

Yes we have a few outs but the players on the field last night have no grunt. They didn't want it. The coach has failed to get them up and about.

If our other hopefuls showed half the “want” that JHF showed then I would embrace the rebuild.

But Im afraid we havent even bottomed out enough yet if thats even possible.
 
LETSGOKANGAS said:
It shouldn't be easy to come up with excuses for last nights 100+ mauling.

The fact is we are rubbish. Its that simple.

Yes we have a few outs but the players on the field last night have no grunt. They didn't want it. The coach has failed to get them up and about.

If our other hopefuls showed half the “want” that JHF showed then I would embrace the rebuild.

But Im afraid we havent even bottomed out enough yet if thats even possible.
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Yep, its going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
 
Sorry for intruding but obviously a big discussion around list analysis on here, rightfully so.

When we were at a similar point, it was hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, because progession isn't linear like a tunnel is.

We did the basics, drafted well, new coach (Fagan) picked up some good kids, got game time into them etc etc but ultimately what got us over the hurdle (Not that we've won anything yet) was free agency & trading.

This is where Nobes will be VERY good to have at the club. I don't know if he is a good coach or not but I know that he can put a list together and identify what is needed to make a good list. This is not a 1 year project, or even 2-3 years. It has to be a solid 4-5 years, that may speed up if FA/trades hit the mark.

We had Pick 12 one year, instead of picking up a kid, we traded for Charlie Cameron. We gave up mid-round picks to have a swing at guys like Linc McCarthy and Marcus Adams. Getting in guys like Hodge/Birchall helped sure up our backline. Then with the extra space in the salary cap from being down the bottom for so long, you go and get guys like Lachie Neale & Joe Daniher. All those names I just listed, not drafted and were impossible to predict being at the club back in 2017.

North will come good if you allow guys like Nobes time to build his project but if they rush him out the door, you could end up like Carlton for 20 years.

Best of luck for the rest of the year and into the next few years!
 
Toffee Lion said:
Sorry for intruding but obviously a big discussion around list analysis on here, rightfully so.

When we were at a similar point, it was hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, because progession isn't linear like a tunnel is.

We did the basics, drafted well, new coach (Fagan) picked up some good kids, got game time into them etc etc but ultimately what got us over the hurdle (Not that we've won anything yet) was free agency & trading.

This is where Nobes will be VERY good to have at the club. I don't know if he is a good coach or not but I know that he can put a list together and identify what is needed to make a good list. This is not a 1 year project, or even 2-3 years. It has to be a solid 4-5 years, that may speed up if FA/trades hit the mark.

We had Pick 12 one year, instead of picking up a kid, we traded for Charlie Cameron. We gave up mid-round picks to have a swing at guys like Linc McCarthy and Marcus Adams. Getting in guys like Hodge/Birchall helped sure up our backline. Then with the extra space in the salary cap from being down the bottom for so long, you go and get guys like Lachie Neale & Joe Daniher. All those names I just listed, not drafted and were impossible to predict being at the club back in 2017.

North will come good if you allow guys like Nobes time to build his project but if they rush him out the door, you could end up like Carlton for 20 years.

Best of luck for the rest of the year and into the next few years!
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Thanks Toff. You know what it is like and you are back where you want to be.
Just gotta stay the course.

( p.s. Fcuk Carltank ! )
 
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