Crawf playing in 09. T Clarke, Dawson, Moss, McEntee delisted

[Beckers]

Re: Hawthorn List changes

double post

 

[Rowie09]

I feel for Dawson, the kid can play. Had his AFL career effectively destroyed in one game.

I hope we keep Clarke on in some sort of coaching/mentoring/fitness role.

 

[Tasmaniac]

Thanks to all the guys for their efforts.

Special mentions for Danny Jacobs who held the defence together when times were tough, and Tim Clarke who worked his backside off to get the best out of himself, a real champ.

 

[RustyHawk]

Mods note: for the record 3 threads all started at the same time all merged into 1 thread about the delistings.

 

[hawks_time]

For someone who can't remember the game too vividly can someone tell me why Zacs name was so tarnished? He played against Rocca I think and got a bag kicked against him but Buddy must have kicked nearly 30 goals against Paddy Rider in the last 3 or so games against the Dons.

 

[RustyHawk]

Tim Clarke was one of the great servants of the Hawthorn Football Club. I endorse the previous comments and especially by Bards, they should make him Box Hill Captain.

Battled injury in 2007 and in 2008 got himself right but by then the door had closed and a strong team formed without him in the middle.

Do not underestimate his value to the team. During the pre season he lead the team around the park and the boys where all forced to chase. He is one of the reasons we where such a physically strong and fit team that showed in the last Saturday in September when Geelong through everything at us in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, battling heat and reduced bench, the players fitness and stamina came through.

In 2009 I expect Brendon Whitecross to start lifting his standard to lead or Rick Ladson to takeover and set that punishing pace that is so necessary for fitness and strength.

Gary Moss
Unlucky with injury and others have passed him by.

Luke McEntee
This former South Australian has been on our rookie list for 3 seasons I think and 1 season as a senior listed player. That is alot of AFL experience for little return. Would not be suprised a club with Todd Viney on its panel may seriously look at this young man. Also I expect should be played as a tall "leaping" forward not as a ruckman. Lovely tap ruckman but play him in the forward line.

Just a shame he could never get his legs right whilst at Hawthorn.

Good luck Luke. Seems Robert Campbell is going to need a new flat mate.

 

[Hawker 44]

No rookie delisting?
Are they all safe or to be announced at a later date?

 

[Dixie Flatline]

For someone who can't remember the game too vividly can someone tell me why Zacs name was so tarnished? He played against Rocca I think and got a bag kicked against him but Buddy must have kicked nearly 30 goals against Paddy Rider in the last 3 or so games against the Dons.

The worst player to ever play 200 games kicked 8 goals on Dawson.

 

[Brown Blood]

Re: Hawthorn List changes

It didn't take a genius to pick, I got it right, but did not include McEntee. I think Hawthorn made the right decision. T.Clarke, while the right decision should be praised for his contribution to the Hawks. He did not set the benchmark on the field, but certainly did on the training track.

Will Dawson pop up at another club? I think there is a 33% chance.

And if he does will you be 33% right or 67% wrong !

 

[Beckers]

For someone who can't remember the game too vividly can someone tell me why Zacs name was so tarnished? He played against Rocca I think and got a bag kicked against him but Buddy must have kicked nearly 30 goals against Paddy Rider in the last 3 or so games against the Dons.

It wasn't the numbers, but more the way it happened and where it happened (big stage). Collingwood was the last of 2 or 3 games of pure maulings from some of the AFL's best power forwards. Rocca just made him look silly in the 1 on 1's and EVERYONE agreed that Clarko left him out to dry waaaaayyyyyyy to long! The whole world was watching and Zac's reputation and confidence was gone!

 

[marto9000]

Zac Dawson will get picked up again, if we have a spot left well grab him same as we did Thurgood

bit shocked with Clarke's delisting, i thought he would of had 1 more year but as we know coaching staff knows best

good luck to all the boys who were delisted

congrats to stokesy aswell

 

[lethalselbow]

Fair enough on the delistings. Pretty sure Dawson will get picked up by another club. Also reckon that Clarke might be looked at... he still goes alright, but was not given the chance with our midfield stocks.

Wishing all the best for Clarke, Dawson, Moss, McEntee

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Re: Hawthorn List changes

Dawson wasn't so much the quantity he was scored against, but the methods.

He was thin as a rake, and obviously couldn't compete in a wrestle. Rocca didn't really 'lead' for the ball much, preferring to stand and wrestle whenever possible.

Dawson played him from behind, but couldn't move Rocca, or get around him to spoil.

So he played in front, backing his judgement to beat Rocca to the incoming ball. (Funny, isn't that why Hodge is now the best backman in the league?)

His judgement wasn't too bad here, but leaving the opposition FF unmarked in the goal-square is often a dangerous proposition.

He had zero help, as malthouse (and then laidley) cleared out the 50m, so no team-mates could give him a chop-out.

That, combined with his plummeting confidence in disposal (perhaps due to Clarkson's insistence of giving the ball to Guerra/Ladson/Birchall leaving defensive 50m) left him handballing backwards 2m to stationary team-mates.

He's actually massively better than what he showed in those early games. Probably not to the level of Ryder - but good enough he could (perhaps should) have been part of our senior line-up at times this season - especially when Croad was out.

I really hope someone else picks him up, as AC obviously has his mind made up about Dawson - disregarding his BH performances, and backing our undersized defenders (Brown, Hodge, Murphy, Gilham) - generally to success. If he goes onto our rookie list, it could be the end of his AFL career.

Tall, relatively quick, good spoil, and now in the 95kg+ point, so should be strong enough to compete. Decent long kick, and a little bit of 'venom' in his play. Would be a very handy pickup IMO.

 

[RustyHawk]

No rookie delisting?
Are they all safe or to be announced at a later date?

Good question.

Surely the end is nigh for Suckling and probably Grima.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Re: Hawthorn List changes

Clarke suprises me. I could see him slotting into about 10 other teams best 22. Would still push for our side, especially if our interest in RoK was genuine as a lead-up CHF.

I hope we throw $$$ at him to stay Box Hill Captain - he would add serious value on and off the field for our reserves and rookies. He might prefer to pursue his AFL prospects first.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Would have thought a club like Freo might pick up Clarke. Thought they might give Dawson one moRe year, but tough times call for tough decisions.

Good luck to the delisted players and hope the next step in their journey is a good one.

Assume we will use 3 picks in the draft and one PSD?

 

[KWAH FAN]

It's unfortunate but that's football and hard decision's have to be made, i hope Tim Clarke stays at the club in some other capacity for he has been a very valuable contributor for the HFC, the perseverance the club has shown in Zac has been outstanding considering what he has gone through, also good luck to the other players.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Im really interested in everyone's opinion on Zac. Now dont get me wrong I reckon the kid is great, infact very friendly. Have had a couple of really good convos with him.

So here's the thing. Yeah he got cut up by Rocca but why is everyone blaming Clarko for that? Clarko left him on Rocca to test Zac out. So should we be giving all of our young players armchair rides and matchups on players who are average so they can look better? Thats not what makes a good player. If anything, Zac should have learnt from that game, trained harder, worked out his deficiencies and earnt his place.

IMO to blame Clarkson for Dawson's delisting is comical. He didnt make it because he simply wasnt good enough and he has had a few years to prove it. He was found out not once, but on multiple occasions by a few different forwards. Decision making was also atrocious at the best of times.

The list management staff have made the right call without doubt. Remember its these same guys that delivered us our premiership 3 weeks ago.

P.S Wish Zac the best on all his future pursuits

 

[Rowie09]

Im really interested in everyone's opinion on Zac. Now dont get me wrong I reckon the kid is great, infact very friendly. Have had a couple of really good convos with him.

So here's the thing. Yeah he got cut up by Rocca but why is everyone blaming Clarko for that? Clarko left him on Rocca to test Zac out. So should we be giving all of our young players armchair rides and matchups on players who are average so they can look better? Thats not what makes a good player. If anything, Zac should have learnt from that game, trained harder, worked out his deficiencies and earnt his place.

IMO to blame Clarkson for Dawson's delisting is comical. He didnt make it because he simply wasnt good enough and he has had a few years to prove it. He was found out not once, but on multiple occasions by a few different forwards. Decision making was also atrocious at the best of times.

The list management staff have made the right call without doubt. Remember its these same guys that delivered us our premiership 3 weeks ago.

P.S Wish Zac the best on all his future pursuits

Dawson carves up in the VFL. PLays back, forward and even in the ruck, and he plays well.

It is hard to pinpoint the blame with Dawson, but i agree with you, Clarkson was testing him in that Collingwood game.

Only gripe I have was when Rocca was clearly beating him, why didnt Clarko make the move? The kids confidence took an absolute belting.

It was right to try Dawson on Rocca but not right to leave him there and be humiliated.

I thought Zac would get another year tbh, he's a great clubman and I thought he had been playing good enough footy in the 2's.

But thats footy I guess, hope he gets picked up by another club and dominates the Hawks in the future!

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Since putting on the size appropriate for the position he plays - he has been one of the better FBs outside the AFL for the last 18 months. Constantly beating his man, doing his job, and even offering something offensively too.

He also showed he could be a 'spark' going forward kicking a couple of bags of goals.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

From memory, I thought I recall Clarkson admitting that he was wrong to leave Dawson out to dry for so long on Rocca.

But in hindsight, unless Croad and Gilham were both unavailable at the same time, his chances of playing for Hawthorn again were always between buckleys and none. He just doesn't fit the type of defender Hawthorn now prefers to use in addition to Croad and Gilham (most of the time). He'd never get a gig in our forward line, either.

 

[Philhawk]

Really bad luck for Clarke ...

I really hope he does what Lappin did at Carlton and becomes the Development Playing-Coach at Box Hill ...

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Zac Dawson will be taken in the pre-season draft. Probably by a side with no talls like Bulldogs. I also think that if we cant draft what we're after we would be somechance of re-drafting him, Thurgood style.
Tim Clarke would make an excellent captain of Box Hill if no other club shows interest.

Listen to this man.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Dawson carves up in the VFL. PLays back, forward and even in the ruck, and he plays well.

It is hard to pinpoint the blame with Dawson, but i agree with you, Clarkson was testing him in that Collingwood game.

Only gripe I have was when Rocca was clearly beating him, why didnt Clarko make the move? The kids confidence took an absolute belting.

It was right to try Dawson on Rocca but not right to leave him there and be humiliated.

I thought Zac would get another year tbh, he's a great clubman and I thought he had been playing good enough footy in the 2's.

But thats footy I guess, hope he gets picked up by another club and dominates the Hawks in the future!

Must say, I was at that game and Dawson was pathetic. He continued to sit on Rocca's side on the 'thin' part of the ground, leaving him two thirds of the ground to lead up in to, which he did, time and time again. A half decent under 16 footballer would not have made the mistakes Dawson made.

And I get a bit tired of all this 'his confidence took a beating' nonsense. They're highly paid sportsmen. You win some, you lose some, but what you have to do is learn from your mistakes.

I am happy Dawson had his chance and good luck to him in the future, but what he showed me was that he was unable to apply the lessons he learnt on the field and from the coaches, and unless you start with an amazing gift, that doesn't give you much of a future.

 

[GoBuddy]

Listen to this man.

Poor Zak, I actually thought he would break into the side this year. Croad got injured and still Clarko never played him. I think the coach has just lost his faith with him. We have persisted with him for 3 years now, It would be very upsetting if another club picks him up and he plays well for them. I hope we redraft him again, we need another backman incase something happens.

I would have thought Clarke could have been given another year. Poor bloke, he tries his heart out. He is on of those guys that plays with his heart and gives you 100% on the field with effort. But his skills were never up to it.

Is there any chance that both would be redraft by us?