Crows Chat That 'Doesnt Deserve Its Own Thread' Thread part 2

[I Lost My Keays]

 

[Mego Red]

So you tar a whole organisation with the same brush?

Is that kind of like assuming all Muslims support ISIS? Not very progressive thinking.

Fair enough.

Personally, I am happy to tar an organization with those things that it puts in its Handbook of Doctrine, such as:

"They know God’s decree, that those who practise such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practise them."

That's the part of the Salvation Army Manual where they say all homosexuals should be put to death.

That's pretty extreme, whether you're Christian or Muslim. And any Christians or Muslims who say would similar are also scum in my book.

 

[glengowan]

Does anyone know what the song is called that is used in the pre game video highlights with D.Jarman, Tex etc. just before the game starts? Or if that clip is available to view?

 

[Rusty Crow]

So you tar a whole organisation with the same brush?

Is that kind of like assuming all Muslims support ISIS? Not very progressive thinking.

So how many children need to be sexually molested before you would do something about it?

 

[Tex200]

So how many children need to be sexually molested before you would do something about it?

I don't know - how many terrorist attacks before you block Muslim immigration?

Or do you accept that you can't lump in some individuals with a whole group?

 

[DangerSloane]

Fair enough.

Personally, I am happy to tar an organization with those things that it puts in its Handbook of Doctrine, such as:

"They know God’s decree, that those who practise such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practise them."

That's the part of the Salvation Army Manual where they say all homosexuals should be put to death.

That's pretty extreme, whether you're Christian or Muslim. And any Christians or Muslims who say would similar are also scum in my book.

So all religious organisations should be avoided? No matter what they do for children/poor people/injured or the underprivileged.

This is the issue with today's society, people value ones opinion or beliefs over what they actually ****ing do for society.

Do you care if your surgeon hates gay people? Would you tell the fireys to go away when your house is burning down because a few of them are muslim and believe that women should be covered and kept at home?

FWIW I'm very anti-religion. Doesnt mean that many of those organisations dont do great deeds in society.

 

[skoobydoo]

Haha win over the locals with Spanish.

I saw what you did there! Ha!

 

[cm_perfect]

Using only 27 players so far this year (maybe 29 after this round) has provided us stability for game day.
Does this help or hamper or finals campaign? If we cop an injury or two we may be bringing in a player coming into finals with little to no recent AFL exposure. Should we have rotated a few players through the AFL side this year so we know what we have to draw on if needed?

Would someone with a little more time on their hands be able to dig up how many players the Hawks have used in each of there last 3 premiership seasons as a comparison.

I am fence sitting and have no idea if using so few is a good or a bad thing.

 

[DangerSloane]

Using only 27 players so far this year (maybe 29 after this round) has provided us stability for game day.
Does this help or hamper or finals campaign? If we cop an injury or two we may be bringing in a player coming into finals with little to no recent AFL exposure. Should we have rotated a few players through the AFL side this year so we know what we have to draw on if needed?

Would someone with a little more time on their hands be able to dig up how many players the Hawks have used in each of there last 3 premiership seasons as a comparison.

I am fence sitting and have no idea if using so few is a good or a bad thing.

I think given how close we are to top 4, it would've been silly to manage players.
If we were like North and knew we were between 5-8 we probably would have done a bit more rotation.

Given its like 2 goals between 5th and 4th...its too close to play with fire.

 

[Niximus]

So all religious organisations should be avoided? No matter what they do for children/poor people/injured or the underprivileged.

This is the issue with today's society, people value ones opinion or beliefs over what they actually ******* do for society.

Do you care if your surgeon hates gay people? Would you tell the fireys to go away when your house is burning down because a few of them are muslim and believe that women should be covered and kept at home?

FWIW I'm very anti-religion. Doesnt mean that many of those organisations dont do great deeds in society.

What if they had white-supremacist beliefs? How much good would we need to be doing in partnership with them to make that OK?

Would our indigenous players feel a bit upset at such a partnership?

 

[DangerSloane]

What if they had white-supremacist beliefs? How much good would we need to be doing in partnership with them to make that OK?

Would our indigenous players feel a bit upset at such a partnership?

Possibly, is that relevant?

Also not sure there are religions that believe black people are a sin, like some do homosexuality. So its not really a decent comparison.

 

[Niximus]

Possibly, is that relevant?

Do you not see the parallel with partnering with an organisation that unashamedly calls heterosexual relationships 'optimal', essentially straight-supremacist? How would our non-straight supporters or even players feel about it?

http://www.salvationarmy.org.au/en/...l-Statements/Positional-Statements/MARRIAGE-/
"In the face of open acceptance of alternative lifestyles, The Salvation Army affirms its absolute conviction that the marriage of one man to one woman is a sacred institution ordained by God. It is one of the most rewarding of life's decisions for any man or woman, providing the optimal conditions for family life."

Also not sure there are religions that believe black people are a sin, like some do homosexuality. So its not really a decent comparison.

Have you heard of the Mormons? They taught that black skin was a curse from god. Now, god changed his mind in 1978, but they're out there, for sure.

 

[DangerSloane]

Do you not see the parallel with partnering with an organisation that unashamedly calls heterosexual relationships 'optimal', essentially straight-supremacist? How would our non-straight supporters or even players feel about it?

http://www.salvationarmy.org.au/en/...l-Statements/Positional-Statements/MARRIAGE-/
"In the face of open acceptance of alternative lifestyles, The Salvation Army affirms its absolute conviction that the marriage of one man to one woman is a sacred institution ordained by God. It is one of the most rewarding of life's decisions for any man or woman, providing the optimal conditions for family life."


Have you heard of the Mormons? They taught that black skin was a curse from god. Now, god changed his mind in 1978, but they're out there, for sure.

So unless an organisation is totally apolitical we shouldn't partner with them no matter what?

 

[beartoo]

Saw the Facebook post from the club about the clothes for kids thing this weekend - http://www.afc.com.au/news/2016-07-26/crows-drive-kids-clothes-for-a-cause

Now, I have to say that this highlights a reason why I think football clubs getting involved in social issues can be problematic.

I think donating clothes for children is a fantastic thing, but as a strong supporter of marriage equality, the right to choose in relation to abortion, and the right to die with dignity, I am disappointed to see the club linked to the Salvation Army, an organisation actively against all those things.

Organisations like the salvos have things about them you may agree or disagree with. But they do a power (excuse word usage) of good in the community.
Support the good. We all have different values and ethics.

 

[Niximus]

So unless an organisation is totally apolitical we shouldn't partner with them no matter what?

Where do you propose we draw the line?

Are there positions an organisation could take that would warrant not being associated with them? You're cool with homophobic beliefs, what if they were sexist, racist?

 

[Niximus]

Organisations like the salvos have things about them you may agree or disagree with. But they do a power (excuse word usage) of good in the community.
Support the good. We all have different values and ethics.

Which returns us to the question of how much good is required to off-set the bad?

We've got some people willing to overlook homophobia, OK, if instead of being against same-sex marriage, they were against mixed-race marriage would that change anything at all?

 

[beartoo]

Which returns us to the question of how much good is required to off-set the bad?

We've got some people willing to overlook homophobia, OK, if instead of being against same-sex marriage, they were against mixed-race marriage would that change anything at all?

But as they are not the question is irrelevant. Cross bridges when we come to them.
I am not cool with homophobic beliefs.

 

[arrowman]

Using only 27 players so far this year (maybe 29 after this round) has provided us stability for game day.
Does this help or hamper or finals campaign? If we cop an injury or two we may be bringing in a player coming into finals with little to no recent AFL exposure. Should we have rotated a few players through the AFL side this year so we know what we have to draw on if needed?

Would someone with a little more time on their hands be able to dig up how many players the Hawks have used in each of there last 3 premiership seasons as a comparison.

I am fence sitting and have no idea if using so few is a good or a bad thing.

I think we've sort of been painted into a corner. With our tough start to the season we went pretty much with "best 22" and the only players that haven't survived from that period, for different reasons, are Milera and VB.

If we had crashed in the first 10 rounds, our selection policy might have been different, but it turned out to be "oh, whoops, we're in with a shot here, we have to keep going and not flirt with our form."

The 27 player thing is both a strength (continuity of a strong, winning group) and a threat - we're going in to finals with only 27 players who've played a game this year and if injuries strike we might have to blood a player in a final. I guess we're just going to have to run with it.

 

[DangerSloane]

Where do you propose we draw the line?

Are there positions an organisation could take that would warrant not being associated with them? You're cool with homophobic beliefs, what if they were sexist, racist?

Well our major sponsor is Japanese.
My grandfather was a Japanese POW.
It offends me, meaning we should immediately cut ties with Toyota.

If you expect a church group to be pro-homosexuality then you're tripping balls.

Do you think if we have any players come to the club that dont believe in same sex marriage that they should be sacked?

 

[dogs105]

I'm not questioning the motives of the club at all. I'm sure they do just want to help kids. Just disappointed at the association with an organisation that implies that anything other than a heterosexual marriage is sub-optimal family.

I guess one needs to try to recognise the good being done by anybody, and try to start dialogue about things you don't think are good.

Some medical researchers are atheists. Some are Christians. Some are Hindus. Some are Muslims. Some are agnostic. I am thankful to all of them for example.

 

[Tex200]

Do you not see the parallel with partnering with an organisation that unashamedly calls heterosexual relationships 'optimal', essentially straight-supremacist? How would our non-straight supporters or even players feel about it?

http://www.salvationarmy.org.au/en/...l-Statements/Positional-Statements/MARRIAGE-/
"In the face of open acceptance of alternative lifestyles, The Salvation Army affirms its absolute conviction that the marriage of one man to one woman is a sacred institution ordained by God. It is one of the most rewarding of life's decisions for any man or woman, providing the optimal conditions for family life."


Have you heard of the Mormons? They taught that black skin was a curse from god. Now, god changed his mind in 1978, but they're out there, for sure.

Isn't the issue that people's views are always going to be different and someone could always take offence.

We could turn this around - if we partner an organisation that supports gay marriage are we at risk of offending our devout Christian supporters or players who oppose gay marriage.

Isn't the higher road to say, hey we might not agree on everything but we do agree that kids in poverty need help so let's work together on that?

The progressive and elite left have developed and nurtured a culture of offence and narrowed democratic features such as freedom of speech and thought.

If people just worked a bit harder on finding things they agree on, they may find barriers on what they don't agree on are far more easily overcome .

 

[Tex200]

Which returns us to the question of how much good is required to off-set the bad?

We've got some people willing to overlook homophobia, OK, if instead of being against same-sex marriage, they were against mixed-race marriage would that change anything at all?

I'm not sure that opposition to same sex marriage equates to homophobia.

 

[DangerSloane]

Isn't the issue that people's views are always going to be different and someone could always take offence.

We could turn this around - if we partner an organisation that supports gay marriage are we at risk of offending our devout Christian supporters or players who oppose gay marriage.

Isn't the higher road to say, hey we might not agree on everything but we do agree that kids in poverty need help so let's work together on that?

The progressive and elite left have developed and nurtured a culture of offence and narrowed democratic features such as freedom of speech and thought.

If people just worked a bit harder on finding things they agree on, they may find barriers on what they don't agree on are far more easily overcome .

BOOM. Well said.
Its the only thing I agree with Trump on, the world has gone too PC.

If you're a vegan and your brain surgeon eats meat, would you tell him not to bother?

Everyone has their own beliefs, whether that be a person, an organisation or a charity. Just because they believe something different to you, doesnt mean they cant do wonderful things for the community.

Niximus do you think that the Salvos would turn away a homeless person based on their sexuality?

 

[Niximus]

Isn't the issue that people's views are always going to be different and someone could always take offence.

We could turn this around - if we partner an organisation that supports gay marriage are we at risk of offending our devout Christian supporters or players who oppose gay marriage.

Isn't the higher road to say, hey we might not agree on everything but we do agree that kids in poverty need help so let's work together on that?

The progressive and elite left have developed and nurtured a culture of offence and narrowed democratic features such as freedom of speech and thought.

If people just worked a bit harder on finding things they agree on, they may find barriers on what they don't agree on are far more easily overcome .

Does this mean that there is no position an organisation could take that we would want to distance ourselves from?

Is it an issue taking a stand against domestic violence because some of our supporters really do like to beat their spouse?

 

[Niximus]

BOOM. Well said.
Its the only thing I agree with Trump on, the world has gone too PC.

If you're a vegan and your brain surgeon eats meat, would you tell him not to bother?

Everyone has their own beliefs, whether that be a person, an organisation or a charity. Just because they believe something different to you, doesnt mean they cant do wonderful things for the community.

You are criticising the world for being 'too PC' and yet you are proposing that all opinions should be treated equally. Isn't that being a bit PC yourself?

Niximus do you think that the Salvos would turn away a homeless person based on their sexuality?

No, and I've never claimed otherwise.