Toast Culture and Solidarity!

[PieNSauce]

In contrast to a few nervous nellies out there who believe that the only thing achieved by the suspension handed down to Dane Swan is pain, I propose a toast of the highest order to the Leadership group and the management of the Collingwood football club for a courageous decision which enhances and propogates a strong and commited culture at the club.

This thread is not intended as a slap for Dane Swan. He's got his whack and nobody takes pleasure in that but the simple fact is that unless you enforce a culture of adherence to player agreed principles, you cannot hope to have success over time. Over the past few years under the management of Eddie and Perty, the club has shown multiple times that the club is far greater than the individual. This discipline has already, and will continue to stand the club in good stead. Sustained success is not just the result of having good players. It includes all the little one percenters and especially discipline. There is no doubt in my mind that Collingwood supporters should be hailing this decision, irrespective of the short term pain, as a strong and clear declaration that the club will not accept anything less than total commitment to a common goal.

Floreat Pica!

 

[jathanas]

Yep, I'm with you 100%.

Creating a culture of success requires a long term view and strong commitment from all. I'm glad we have people at the club who will not compromise.

This is why we are not Melbourne!

 

[PieNSauce]

Yep, I'm with you 100%.

Creating a culture of success requires a long term view and strong commitment from all. I'm glad we have people at the club who will not compromise.

This is why we are not Melbourne!

Precisely. It amuses me that some people seem to think that sweeping an infaction, no matter how small, under the carpet is acceptable in the pursuit of excellence. Any parent or manager or coach will trell you that you reap what you sow in regard to discipline and the slightest deviation from principle can derail a mighty train. I for one am hugely proud of what the club has achieved over the last few years and to me it's been all about dotting every i and crossing every t. It's no accident that this club continues to go from strength to strength financially or that our onfield success far exceeds expectations.

 

[jmac70]

I think Bucks also needs to be acknowledged in your post. He has carried himself with the utmost integrity and I have no doubt that the professionalism required of the players is in no small part due to his influence.

 

[PieNSauce]

I think Bucks also needs to be acknowledged in your post. He has carried himself with the utmost integrity and I have no doubt that the professionalism required of the players is in no small part due to his influence.

I agree. This is the reason why Bucks is such a good fit for the management group as the coach of our club. He has always been about getting the maximum out of yourself and has always been uncompromising in that pursuit. Some players may not initially like it but I would not mind betting they will like what it should bring to them in their careers.

 

[jonbe54]

I think Bucks also needs to be acknowledged in your post. He has carried himself with the utmost integrity and I have no doubt that the professionalism required of the players is in no small part due to his influence.

Agreed J, Bux is the professional's professional in preparation and performance. Every coach stamps their priority on a team and Bux's stamp appears to be pride in performance and reward for excellence, whether in a big name player or a kid just making their way.

Promotions from the VFL side during the year and the courage to stick by the boys and show faith in them when most of us have howled for their removal (Sinkers) has set the standard. Coming down hard on Wellers and Swan even with the finals coming up gives a message to the playing group and supporters.

That message is that this team will be selected on MERIT, this is a huge bonus going forward as young players and fringe players toiling away in the VFL will know that their efforts WILL be rewarded when the opportunity arises.

This is fantastic for the morale in the playing group and breeds an atmosphere of excellence of performance and attitude.

 

[cleomenes]

The club has itself to blame for imposing stupid rules on itself. The rules under which players work should bear some relation to the general rules of society. Instead, in football in particular, but sport in general, players are placed on some bizarre platform where they are discouraged from behaving as normal human beings. Does a drink 6 days before the game effect anything to do with the game? Then why is there a rule about it? The AFL and all of the clubs have intruded into the lives of their "cattle" to the extent that the players have been forced to sign away their human rights in order to play. And so, the club is forced to make a stand on a trivial action because it said it would, damaging its capacity to perform its core task: winning premierships. There is a loss of perspective here. It is important to stand up for principles. The principle here is that players follow the rules they agreed to. Dane Swan didn't, and the penalty must apply. The problem is that the rules have not been properly constructed. They should not be created so as to make this kind of problem inevitable, given the group that constitues AFL players. (Young males with too much time and money on their hands). Hopefully next year, when the conditions under which players work are set down, our club at least will set realistic standards.

 

[jonbe54]

The club has itself to blame for imposing stupid rules on itself. The rules under which players work should bear some relation to the general rules of society. Instead, in football in particular, but sport in general, players are placed on some bizarre platform where they are discouraged from behaving as normal human beings. Does a drink 6 days before the game effect anything to do with the game? Then why is there a rule about it? The AFL and all of the clubs have intruded into the lives of their "cattle" to the extent that the players have been forced to sign away their human rights in order to play. And so, the club is forced to make a stand on a trivial action because it said it would, damaging its capacity to perform its core task: winning premierships. There is a loss of perspective here. It is important to stand up for principles. The principle here is that players follow the rules they agreed to. Dane Swan didn't, and the penalty must apply. The problem is that the rules have not been properly constructed. They should not be created so as to make this kind of problem inevitable, given the group that constitues AFL players. (Young males with too much time and money on their hands). Hopefully next year, when the conditions under which players work are set down, our club at least will set realistic standards.

The standards are realistic, the ban which Swan is facing is for breaking standards set down by THE PLAYING GROUP of which he is part and to which he agreed.

The nanny state is a fait accompli my friend and we either impose our own standards to conform with that or we will have them imposed from without by wowsers.

 

[jmac70]

The club has itself to blame for imposing stupid rules on itself. The rules under which players work should bear some relation to the general rules of society. Instead, in football in particular, but sport in general, players are placed on some bizarre platform where they are discouraged from behaving as normal human beings. Does a drink 6 days before the game effect anything to do with the game? Then why is there a rule about it? The AFL and all of the clubs have intruded into the lives of their "cattle" to the extent that the players have been forced to sign away their human rights in order to play. And so, the club is forced to make a stand on a trivial action because it said it would, damaging its capacity to perform its core task: winning premierships. There is a loss of perspective here. It is important to stand up for principles. The principle here is that players follow the rules they agreed to. Dane Swan didn't, and the penalty must apply. The problem is that the rules have not been properly constructed. They should not be created so as to make this kind of problem inevitable, given the group that constitues AFL players. (Young males with too much time and money on their hands). Hopefully next year, when the conditions under which players work are set down, our club at least will set realistic standards.

They are elite athletes and must adhere to higher standards than general society in order to compete successfully.

 

[Scodog10]

Cleomenes IMO you have no understanding of what it takes to be an elite athlete.

I wonder if Sally Pearson was out on the town 6 days before a meet just 8 weeks out from the London games (her equivalent of our GF) If people like Swan wish to be paid like professional athletes they need to accept the hard work and more importantly SACRIFICES that go with it.

 

[Kirby]

^ Swanny would be earning more than double of what Sally earns too btw.

Also, I agree with the OP 100%

 

[jathanas]

The club has itself to blame for imposing stupid rules on itself. The rules under which players work should bear some relation to the general rules of society. Instead, in football in particular, but sport in general, players are placed on some bizarre platform where they are discouraged from behaving as normal human beings. Does a drink 6 days before the game effect anything to do with the game? Then why is there a rule about it? The AFL and all of the clubs have intruded into the lives of their "cattle" to the extent that the players have been forced to sign away their human rights in order to play. And so, the club is forced to make a stand on a trivial action because it said it would, damaging its capacity to perform its core task: winning premierships. There is a loss of perspective here. It is important to stand up for principles. The principle here is that players follow the rules they agreed to. Dane Swan didn't, and the penalty must apply. The problem is that the rules have not been properly constructed. They should not be created so as to make this kind of problem inevitable, given the group that constitues AFL players. (Young males with too much time and money on their hands). Hopefully next year, when the conditions under which players work are set down, our club at least will set realistic standards.

Just to answer this, YES.

Elite sports success is all about the 1%. Abstaining from alcohol means that you optimise recovery. Recovery is the biggest factor in backing up well over a tough season. If you recover well you can train / play harder sooner.

As a simple example assume that if you abstain you'd be fully ready to engage in hard training 48 hours after you've played (Tuesday morning?), and then train again on Thursday.

That's 2 meaningful training sessions per week over a season. The increased training load and optimal recovery would certainly add up to be a significant advantage, especially if your opposition is hitting the turps and hence missing out on a few of those training sessions.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Personally, I'd be more concerned if I was the Swans after this.

Back against the wall and seemingly down and out Collingwood is not the Collingwood you want to face in Sydney.

We were missing Swan plus a whole host of others against Adelaide and at the time our form was iffy, and Adelaide were the 'red hot' flavour of the month. Then we spanked them in a quarter of the gutsiest football I've seen in ages.

I'm actually confident we might beat Sydney now, because I wasn't before.

 

[PieNSauce]

Personally, I'd be more concerned if I was the Swans after this.

Back against the wall and seemingly down and out Collingwood is not the Collingwood you want to face in Sydney.

We were missing Swan plus a whole host of others against Adelaide and at the time our form was iffy, and Adelaide were the 'red hot' flavour of the month. Then we spanked them in a quarter of the gutsiest football I've seen in ages.

I'm actually confident we might beat Sydney now, because I wasn't before.

I like the message Ed!

 

[PreciousPossum]

I am inclined to agree with cleomenes. The OP is correct in principle but if we lose the next 2 games, principles are not going to defuse Collingwood supporters, fury at being denied a realistic shot at a premiership. Before agreeing that a ban on alcohol is a pre-requisite for winning a premiership, I would like to know the policies of Hawthorn, Adelaide and Geelong towards alcohol consumjption. There are certainly individual players like Shaw and Didak who have shown in the past that they would benefit from abstaining from alcohol. Players already speak like programmed robots, and Swan has always been a breath of fresh air in this respect. To say that he agreed to the ban is not taking into account that he probably had no choice in the matter. If we lose the next few games and are then bundled out early in the finals, this agreement is going to look a bit self-destructive.

 

[PreciousPossum]

Personally, I'd be more concerned if I was the Swans after this.

Back against the wall and seemingly down and out Collingwood is not the Collingwood you want to face in Sydney.

We were missing Swan plus a whole host of others against Adelaide and at the time our form was iffy, and Adelaide were the 'red hot' flavour of the month. Then we spanked them in a quarter of the gutsiest football I've seen in ages.

I'm actually confident we might beat Sydney now, because I wasn't before.

As Baltimore Jack might say, you have no evidence for your claim other than a blind belief that the Pies will perform at their best when faced with adversity. I certainly hope you are correct, but really you are just hoping that the cloud has a silver lining.

 

[PieNSauce]

I am inclined to agree with cleomenes. The OP is correct in principle but if we lose the next 2 games, principles are not going to defuse Collingwood supporters, fury at being denied a realistic shot at a premiership. Before agreeing that a ban on alcohol is a pre-requisite for winning a premiership, I would like to know the policies of Hawthorn, Adelaide and Geelong towards alcohol consumjption. There are certainly individual players like Shaw and Didak who have shown in the past that they would benefit from abstaining from alcohol. Players already speak like programmed robots, and Swan has always been a breath of fresh air in this respect. To say that he agreed to the ban is not taking into account that he probably had no choice in the matter. If we lose the next few games and are then bundled out early in the finals, this agreement is going to look a bit self-destructive.

Just as there are plenty of supporters who would be ropable if failing to punish Swan's actions proved a destabilising influence which could not only derail our 2012 premiership chances but destroy the focus and culture for future years. Seems like a no win to me with the exception that one route has short term consequences while the other could leave a far more lasting legacy.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

As Baltimore Jack might say, you have no evidence for your claim other than a blind belief that the Pies will perform at their best when faced with adversity. I certainly hope you are correct, but really you are just hoping that the cloud has a silver lining.

How the f**k can you have concrete evidence for a hunch? I mean, I don't KNOW they'll come out hard due to adversity, I'm basing that on what has happened in the past mostly.

I can't possibly know.

Who the f**k to the jam our of your donut dude?

 

[Scodog10]

Personally, I'd be more concerned if I was the Swans after this.

Back against the wall and seemingly down and out Collingwood is not the Collingwood you want to face in Sydney.

We were missing Swan plus a whole host of others against Adelaide and at the time our form was iffy, and Adelaide were the 'red hot' flavour of the month. Then we spanked them in a quarter of the gutsiest football I've seen in ages.

I'm actually confident we might beat Sydney now, because I wasn't before.

Am I the only one that's a little ticked off with the fact that we need to have our backs to the wall in order to produce our best?

Don't get me wrong I'll be as happy as the next person if it provides the impetus needed to get the win this weekend, but honestly that sort of mindset isn't going to help us win the big one this year!

 

[jonbe54]

Am I the only one that's a little ticked off with the fact that we need to have our backs to the wall in order to produce our best?

Don't get me wrong I'll be as happy as the next person if it provides the impetus needed to get the win this weekend, but honestly that sort of mindset isn't going to help us win the big one this year!

It's fairly common dog, adversity stiffens resolve, no matter how professional the athlete human nature plays a part.

 

[PieNSauce]

Am I the only one that's a little ticked off with the fact that we need to have our backs to the wall in order to produce our best?

Don't get me wrong I'll be as happy as the next person if it provides the impetus needed to get the win this weekend, but honestly that sort of mindset isn't going to help us win the big one this year!

I don't disagree with you but given personnel and form i'd be more than happy for any little edge we can get in the next few weeks even if it does expose some flaws. Frankly I reckon the flaws are pretty obvious and they're unlikely to go away without an injection of high class experienced players. At this stage the likelihood of that is in the balance at best.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Am I the only one that's a little ticked off with the fact that we need to have our backs to the wall in order to produce our best?

Don't get me wrong I'll be as happy as the next person if it provides the impetus needed to get the win this weekend, but honestly that sort of mindset isn't going to help us win the big one this year!

I never said it was a good thing.

 

[PreciousPossum]

The club should target tee-totalling players from now on, ignoring any recruit who is reputed to like a drink. That way the player group will be able to readily accept an alcohol ban. When Swan originally joined the club there would have been no ban on alcohol consumption. If the club believes the players need to abstain from alcohol, they should be realistic in their recruiting, selecting only those players with Buckley's single-minded approach to football.

 

[PieNSauce]

The club should target tee-totalling players from now on, ignoring any recruit who is reputed to like a drink. That way the player group will be able to readily accept an alcohol ban. When Swan originally joined the club there would have been no ban on alcohol consumption. If the club believes the players need to abstain from alcohol, they should be realistic in their recruiting, selecting only those players with Buckley's single-minded approach to football.

Wut? It was the players who decided on the alcohol ban, not the club!

 

[sloth6]

Precisely. It amuses me that some people seem to think that sweeping an infaction, no matter how small, under the carpet is acceptable in the pursuit of excellence. Any parent or manager or coach will trell you that you reap what you sow in regard to discipline and the slightest deviation from principle can derail a mighty train. I for one am hugely proud of what the club has achieved over the last few years and to me it's been all about dotting every i and crossing every t. It's no accident that this club continues to go from strength to strength financially or that our onfield success far exceeds expectations.

If your thinking that things similar to this didn't happen last year than your kidding yourself. Malthouse didn't give a rats clacker what some of them did, as long as they performed on the weekend.